Why does Veeky Forums hate self-help books so much? The good ones are filled with genuinely good life advice

That book is shit.

He is literally a Jordan Peterson-tier pseudointellectual though lol

Self-hate books help

I don't really think they help that much. They put things in an easy to understand way so one is all like "Oh that makes sense" but there is a difference between having a concept of something and understanding its implications for which practical knowledge is necessary. Basically those books are really shallow and only give a shallow understanding of their subject matter. If a self-help book actually helped anyone it just means that they were already there and they needed someone to state what they already know in an easy to conceptualize way.
On a related note, most self help books are strongly personalized to the authors personal experience. The assumption is that if it helped you it will help anyone. That is not always the case.

>>don't be so sensitive
This one always bothers me. It's not exactly a choice, you know.

Self-help books are shit and only help people who already have the means to do what they assign.

Inaccurate. Taleb is a serious thinker, he just has a stupid public persona.

But disliking someone because you don't like their marketing style makes you a moron

>Don't believe in intuition
>Work harder than anyone else is willing to
>Accept chance plays a massive role in success, but don't use it as an excuse for apathy
>Be fit

lmao pussy ass faggot kill yourself

How is he a pseudointellectual in any respect whatsoever?

He holds a doctorate from one of the most prestigious universities on the planet, has actual and wildly successful career experience within his field of expertise, and teaches NYU
He writes serious books that propose serious solutions to serious social and economic problems. They have directly influenced the course of thought and discussion surrounding his topics of choice
He regularly engages with the public and tries to introduce his ideas to policymakers

Who could be better qualified to comment on finance, society, and the economy than Nassim Taleb?

A pseudointellectual is somebody who feigns intellectual superiority with their lazy shitposts on Veeky Forums. An intellectual is somebody who actually has intelligence, which he demonstrates when he provides influential and insightful social analysis

Tell me why they are always about being a good little worker bee?

nice remark

>Don't believe in intuition
Dumb.

Because David Allen looks like a fucking tool

It was a question.

Kek

>It literally doesn't matter what you work on because work is valuable in and of itself
It's all capitalist propaganda.

>This one always bothers me. It's not exactly a choice, you know.
It is though. Being sensitive =/= being more self aware. If you look outwardly, become more empathetic, see the humor in life, and stop being so self-absorbed you will invariably be less defensive and overly-sensitive.

I am naturally a sensitive person, but being aware of other people and not being self-absorbed means I can actually step outside of myself and see things a little bit more objectively. This doesn't mean I don't get that initial reaction of feeling hurt/offended/etc., but I can balance it with rational thought and put it in a context beyond knee-jerk emotion.

The problem is, a lot of people seeking self-help are really looking for something that rationalizes their current behavior and makes them feel better, and something that encourages further narcissism under the guise of "self improvement.

I am /lit and I don't.

I really dislike the idea of "solution in a product". Besides, all the shit self-help books have can be reached if the person would use the time it takes them to read one, to think and be honest with themselves. And the reminder that some people can't do something so simple is rather sad.

You have not read 7 habits.

1. Exercise volition/free will. Understand circle of influence vs circle of concern. Production capability vs production.
2. Don't just wander through life. Plan your life. How mission statements can be used to define personal and organizational principles.
3. Most busy people spend time putting out fires. Focus on important tasks that are not urgent. (Reading, exercise, etc)
4. There is a false dichotomy between being a push over and being overbearing. The true method is win/win, which requires courage and consideration.
5. Most people just spout off solutions to problem. Diagnoses is far more important the prescription.
6. The total is greater than the sum of the parts. How to work effectively with others.
7. Don't stop learning, exercising, etc.

Is any of that not worth studying or learning more about?

In my experience, most self-help books are written to stroke the reader's ego and tell them how great they are and how much potential they have.

You are just reading shitty self-help books. Not starting with 7 habits in this genre means you have probably just read trash like pic related.

I know all the stuff in them, but too lazy and careless to even try and improve my life. I think this is the same with most self-help consumers, thinking *this* is the thing that will finally give them the jolt. I mean, really the stuff in these books is obvious.

I have a routine book that I add to every so often if I find a more efficient way to do things. Mostly it's a book about my life and how I try to live it. I give out small pamphlets to new people that get "close" to me so that they won't be surprised by some of the things I do like my shower routine or my cooking routine or my morning routine. Any routine, really.

I want to compile it all into an actual book one day for the son I'll most likely never have.

I guess it's kind of self-help. They're generally garbage, though.

Be willing to get help is an habilitie I think.
How has that worked out for you?
Do you have everything you want? Do you have everything you are supposed to want? And finally how to those two variables align for you?

That's all trivial shit though

I have actually read 7 habits. It's basically the same shit as most other self-help books, wrapped up in anecdotes about how the author is just the best guy ever and you should suck his dick. I was at least amused by some of the anecdotes that manage to give the exact opposite lesson to what he's trying to convey.

Really? How much of your time do you spend worrying about issues outside of your control.

How often do you fold on agreements and get on the losing end?

Are you good at management and delegation?

Even if you don't think its great life advice it is certainly good career advice. Most managers I have worked with have no grasp of any of these concepts.

Do you have an example of one of these anecdotes?

Yeah, I guess one could see the self-awarness that one needs help as a positive, but it's still bit frustrating that the people didn't go a step further or gave up finding the answers themselves. Though I guess it can be more time efficient than a trial & error method.

>Do you have everything you want?
Is that ever possible? Once you get something you want, you will desire something else, one way or another. Specially if we go beyond material shit. So to answer it: I am on the way I want to be and very content with everything surrounding it. Obviously there are aspects and bits I'd like to change but once I am done with that, there will be others, so it's not something I worry about too much.
>Do you have everything you are supposed to want?
Mostly by accident since some of these helped with the stuff above.
>And finally how to those two variables align for you?
Humans are pretty similar in the end, so overlaps are given but it feels like two parallel lines most of the times.

>How much of your time do you spend worrying about issues outside of your control.
Does worrying or at least being slightly discouraged by the fact that so many people think like this count?

they're not literature.

One that springs to mind is from earlyish in the book, and I feel like it really set the tone.
He describes how his son was shit at baseball and clearly wasn't enjoying it and this was apparently hugely disappointing to him. Then he realised he should love and support his son unconditionally, not based on his baseball abilities (obvious advice, but hey, some people still need to be told). So he loves and supports his son, and guess what the payoff is: his son gets good at baseball!
The anecdote was going so well until the ending. You expect him to tell you how his son stopped playing baseball to impress his dad and picked up another hobby he actually liked and became a happy, healthy person. Instead he presents the payoff of the story as his kid getting good at baseball, which just makes it look like that was all that mattered to him the whole time and that loving and supporting your child isn't a goal in itself, but just a more efficient way of projecting your goals onto them.

So can we admit then that self-help advice is primarily advice about how to be a good capitalist worker masquerading as life advice?

Not that user and not a big fan of capitalism but a lot of the things that make you a good capitalist worker, are beneficial for life as well.

Tried to read Tony Robbins last year. Brutal.

>Are you good at management and delegation?
Why should I care? I'm not a manager at Big Company X and I don't have slaves.

That's a matter of subjective opinion ;^)

The problem with self-help books lies in the nature of their format – through the framework of a trivial, almost shallow outlook on life, they present basic cookbook steps steeped in common sense, with a rhetorical composition that agitates ones emotions towards a short lived excitement and peppy enthusiasm. Likewise, with these books being catered towards a specific demographic, they tend to be soft in tone, politically correct and family friendly; the literary equivalent of a big, fake, plastered smile.

I find no problem with speaking bluntly in common terms, but the authors of these books often operate from an ideological viewpoint that has it's point of departure in bussiness.

How to live life well isn't a topic exclusively confined to the self-help genre. It was formulated long ago by Plato and Aristotle that the highest goal of human exsistence lies in achieving happiness, which each individual seeks in accordance to the level of his understanding.

It is here where the self-help genre falls short. When measured against the various strains of philosophy, so rigorious and systematic, the entire genre thus becomes more of a crude caricature than a detailed piece of fine art.

Philosophy isn't a pasttime of abstract speculation about useless shit – on the contrary, it presents a comprehensive way of looking at life, with the potential of seeping deep into ones core, saturating ones very spirit and thus change the person inside-out.

Of course, philosophy has a tremendous influence on literature, but so does literature on philosophy – it's a symbiotic relationship. There is as much to learn from Homer, Ovid, Dante and Blake as there is in Plato, Plotinus, Augustine and Hegel. In short, on such a vital topic as living life well, I don't see reason in valuing the diluted convience of self-help books.

Because you can gain whatever wisdom you need from any number of religious or philosophical texts.

>he asks why a for-profit simplistic and generic advice book written for gullible/retarded people is a bad thing

haha aaaaaaaaaaaaa Penis

Wow, what a brainlet comment.

Train/learn effectively is an important step after you get everything else right. Plenty of people "work hard" in life and have very little to show for it because their effort was wasted.

Wow, life sucks and then you die, huh user? Mad mad world. Whoa society is oppressive. Vegetables taste worse than chocolate fuck. Sixpence none the richer. Shit. Mad mad world, user. Life's a bitch whoa.

The only self help shit worth reading is stoic ethics.

Not that you should be a stoic. But the stoics had some good ideas, like "don't be a whiney bitch", "control yourself", "stop going in a downward spiral and fix shit", "don't be a vengeful shit, it makes life worse", and "maybe get off your ass and try to make your life better"

WHEN DOES THE NARWHAL BACON, BRO???? XD

NEVER THOUGHT I'D MEET A REDDITOR HERE!

not what management and delegation means in the context of self, you retard

>he hasn't read 4 hour work week

It's like you want work 80 hours a week

Actually good post. Upboated

here's some real self-help:
life sucks and then you die :)

why should people read thousands and thousands of pages of dry ramblings about whether living a certain way is better or not when they can read 150 pages of someone telling you the best way successful people live in a clear and stepwise manner

because most of it is just vapid "just b urself" tier advice that you've already heard, like
they have no intellectual rigor or artistic merit and are produced by frauds who prey off the insecurities of unhappy people

Anti-fragile was repeating itself for 200 pages by the end

I mean I get it, the world is random and we can't trust economic models because you can show that they aren't accurate.

These sorts if arguments are always thrown around entire fields of study, psychology and economics especially.

I don't even remember his proposed solution, make things anti-fragile? Not much of a step by step policy, maybe just an idea to play around with.

I agree with those criticisms.

I think self-help provides pragmatic advice, rather than truth or particularly meaningful discoveries. I think that is where it has a nitch.

Anyone looking to get fulfillment from one of these books is simplistic. But anyone trying to get off their lazy ass, develop self control, etc can probably be benefited.

Plato and Aristotle help me question what life is about and what is most important. Self help (good ones) teaches how to get things and how to make better day to day decisions, not metaphysical or ethical truths.

Because they mostly only convey the sense of being useful in an NLPy, "achieve good things for yourself" way. Knowledge that is usefully applicable in the real world is mostly not an easy read.

>This doesn't mean I don't get that initial reaction of feeling hurt/offended/etc., but I can balance it with rational thought and put it in a context beyond knee-jerk emotion.
Of course, this is only natural.
But the assumption of many people like is that you shouldn't care about things at all and that caring about things is some sort of mental illness that must be cured.

The whole self-help industry is borderline cult.
Even scientology started from a sci-fi author that decided to write a self-help book.

>in and of itself
only a faggot would write that

Because the people who write self help are talking out their asses.

These are simply edgy manchildren who are afraid to grow up and rely on a defense mechanism to convince themselves that they are right, everyone is wrong.