Vegans of ck, I want to know solutions to this problem.
Animals and nature operate in biomes, appropriating itself systematically. How can you argue "save the trees", when they function in such a way to provide sustenance for the biome to function in the first place?
>If we stop slaughtering animals, we don't eat them >If we don't need to eat them, we don't breed them >If we don't breed them, they won't have a particular reason to exist in the first place, a part from content for cultural priveledge >They still need to function the same way if they exist
Won't this just make us the substitute for animals in the natural world? Is that better? Just the ethical dilemma? The cancer shilling?
There is a reason we consume animals. The dairy/animal fat contains the primary source of protein. The most compatible nutrient with the human body. In addition, there is a prominent consensus, that a balanced diet, which includes meat, contains the optimal combination of nutrients for human consumption.
Due to the genes of our evolution, we are designed to prosper on protein and animal fat. I agree that the ideal human race doesn't consider it appropriate to eat other living organisms, but what happens if we start eating like animals do?
I pretend to be vegan to upset people sometimes. But I don't think there are any real ones.
Kayden Sanchez
I am but I don't give a fuck what anyone else eats
Noah Allen
>humans developed intelligence due to eating meat >now as we sign off our intelligence to machines we see more vegans than ever
Julian Johnson
>humans developed intelligence due to eating meat Source?
Robert Wilson
some people think that eating meat somehow altered human DNA to give us bigger brains
this is a misinterpretation of the theory that when our ancestors began hunting, they had a new source of calorie dense food that allowed early humans to evolve big, energy-hungry brains from dying off, or that hunting requires more intelligence than picking berries so the hunters had a survival advantage over berry picking idiots
nowadays the majority of people live long past reproductive age regardless of diet (in first world countries at least), so survival is no longer the driving force of human evolution. eating meat with every meal or not eating meat or animal products are both modern luxuries
Carson Walker
Unless you want to be a soyboy or eat lentils every day, you are fucked when it comes to protein as a vegan.
Eli Ramirez
>If we stop slaughtering animals, we don't eat them >If we don't need to eat them, we don't breed them >If we don't breed them, they won't have a particular reason to exist in the first place, a part from content for cultural priveledge >They still need to function the same way if they exist Not eating something doesn't mean it will go extinct, though. Wolves are a prime example, furthermore our continued encroachment and destruction of natural habitats to make room for grazing fields in the service of commercial husbandry has driven countless species to endangerment if not actual extinction by hunting (the Dodo Bird).
> Due to the genes of our evolution, we are designed to prosper on protein and animal fat. Actually that's wrong. We evolved from other primates whose diet is >95% plants. Run your finger along the edge of your teeth. Do you feel a row of sharp serrated points fit for piercing and tearing flesh and muscle or a line of mostly flat & dull rounded surfaces suited for grinding and gnawing fibrous pulp like a mortar & pestle? Moreover, your intestinal tract is really long and wrinkled to account for the digestion and fermentation of plant matter (like a cow) while meat-eaters have much smaller smoother digestive systems with strong acids to process purifying flesh fast. youtube.com/watch?v=wx0pOGVMntM youtube.com/watch?v=AzBEhD2o5Ho
>There is a reason we consume animals. The dairy/animal fat contains the primary source of protein. The most compatible nutrient with the human body. In addition, there is a prominent consensus, that a balanced diet, which includes meat, contains the optimal combination of nutrients for human consumption. Your RDA of protein is only .8g protein/Kg body weight and studies show everyone (vegan or no) overshoots that figure by 10-30g/day. health.harvard.edu/blog/how-much-protein-do-you-need-every-day-201506188096 nutritionfacts.org/video/do-vegetarians-get-enough-protein/
Carter Turner
>Not eating something doesn't mean it will go extinct, though. If we stopped cold turkey and just released them into the wild as invasive species, that would be an ecological disaster. That can't happen.
If we gradually wound down and just stopped breeding them, they would functionally go extinct.
There may be some feral animals around, but the populations would be a small fraction of current numbers.
It may sound strange but the most evolutionary advantageous adaptation for these animals has been being tameable and tasty.
Leo Morgan
You drank the koolaid. Humans digestive system is much closer to a carnivores than an herbivore.
Isaac Wilson
>when our ancestors began hunting See this is where any theory falls apart because I believe that we've hunted throughout our entire evolution. Even as algae we ate smaller algae. I don't believe there was any point in our evolution where we stopped eating other animals by choice and just sat back and watched the big fish eat the smaller fish. We've never been at the very bottom of any food chain either, and until very recently, on the grand scale of evolution, we haven't had the convenience of having access to such varied sources of meat substitutes, nor have we had an understanding of what was in meat that needed to be substituted. So now we have the luxury of choice which means we can utilize our hard-wired sense of empathy and love for fellow animals by choosing to eat alternatives, or simply less of those animals. But then again if we didn't eat animals at all then a lot of them wouldn't be bred and many wild ones will need to be routinely culled or neutered. The planet isn't gonna get any bigger and we can't all just keep reproducing until there's standing room only. Better them than us.
Jacob Adams
This
Kayden Barnes
Most great apes are primarily vegetarians (usually fruitatarians).
More meat consumption by our ancestors is part of the reason humans were able to get such large brains, which are extremely calorie intensive.
Jeremiah Gomez
>Most great apes are primarily vegetarians (usually fruitatarians). Really? Then why do they have fangs? >More meat consumption by our ancestors is part of the reason humans were able to get such large brains, which are extremely calorie intensive. But meat isn't the most calorie dense food. Fruit has more calories than meat. Even root veggies have more.
I have no argument for or against veganism but what you're saying doesn't make sense to me.
Jason Baker
The ape that we're most related to, the chimpanzee, consumes meat fairly frequently and even hunts, the only great ape that can be considered vegan is the gorilla.
Christopher Martin
>Fruit has more calories than meat. Even root veggies have more. No it does not. A 8oz stake has a thousand calories. Fruit has no were near that.
Michael Reyes
An 8oz steak has 600 calories retard, most of it being fat and protein which is fine, those are longer energy sources while carbs are very short.
Dominic Ramirez
Yeah, nah.
Also don't forget that the meat we were eating when our brains developed would have had virtually no fat on it.
Veganism is mainly a ethical and philosophical position. Debating it from a scientific position forces most vegans to be intellectually dishonest and ignore science that shows health benefits of eating some animal products.
Jack Peterson
You aren't really wrong in that figure according to: livestrong.com/article/501790-nutritional-facts-for-an-8-oz-steak/ It can vary for ~420 to ~800+ depending on the cut. But 8 oz = ~226g, and for the same 226 grams you'd consume in fruit you'd be eating roughly half the amount of calories for even the leanest steak in about every fruit on the produce shelf except avocado. Whole plant foods owe most of their weight to water and indigestible fibrous content which have no energy value. Animal products has no fiber. youtube.com/watch?v=9gTLpTq1nQk
Michael Cooper
I'm sorry I did my math wrong since most fruits are in the 30~50kcal/100g you'd only be consuming at most 1/6 the calories.
Ayden Green
>Really? Then why do they have fangs? Why do hippos? Why do elephants? (tusks are just overgrown teeth) Why do camels?
>But meat isn't the most calorie dense food. Fruit has more calories than meat. Even root veggies have more. lolwut Carrots have 41kcal/100g Bananas (typical food for an ape in Africa) have 89 kcal/100g. Chicken thighs have 214kcal/100g
There are 8 extant species of hominids (great apes): 3 are orangutans: Primarily fruitatarian 2 are gorillas: Primarily fruitatarian 2 are chimpanzees: Primarily fruitatarian. Less than 2% of its calories come from meat 1 is humans
they probably ate the fat too also if you killed a deer or bison or whatever that could feed a bunch of people for days, or you could spend all your waking hours picking fruit and digging up roots
i think the invention of cooking meat was also a big driver for the spread of humanity, because nutritients in cooked meat are more bio-available, cooking also kills parasites and can delay spoilage
Jason King
OP here, assuming we developed as we did entirely due to the nutritional benefits of the natural world, does that mean processed foods are the next level? As in processed, and scientifically modified. Do we have to get to a point where the avg caloric intake of our species is significantly increased(with prominent nutrition) to reach the next level? In that case, wouldn't we need to harness animal protein in one form or another? Assuming we have to follow the same pattern of our ancestors. Everyone knows that you just get fat if you eat in a caloric surplus, but like with weight lifting, the body is taught to store calories in areas that benefit it's growth. Maybe it could be appropriate with further studies, to modify the intellectual growth of the brain.
Just been wondering about this for a while. Brain-let, so can only ponder.
Sebastian Brooks
Thinking harder does not significantly increase the energy you're spending. The brain does take a lot of energy, but if you eat in excess and simply study more with no exercise you'll just get fat.
Landon Brown
You just forgot that humans aren't able to process cellulose like actual herbivores do, humans in other words humans are very shitty omnivores but not herbivores.
Lucas Adams
I eat a plant based diet most of the time, but do not consider myself vegan because I do not do it for ethical reasons. You are correct that a number of breeds of animals only exist because we bred them for food, and if we stopped eating them they would no longer exist. >there is a prominent consensus, that a balanced diet, which includes meat, contains the optimal combination of nutrients for human consumption. If anything there's a consensus that the Western diet is the cause of many health problems common in the Western world such as obesity, type 2 diabetes and hypertension. There really is no consensus on what a balanced diet actually is, which is why health conscious Westerners are given to following fad diets like veganism, paleo/keto, 5:2 fasting and the like. >Due to the genes of our evolution, we are designed to prosper on protein and animal fat. True. But most animal products available to us today don't bear much resemblance to what our ancestors evolved to eat. For most of human history animals lived in an unpolluted wilderness where we hunted them. For many hundred generations we've raised them ourselves, but they still lived on the land and ate something very similar to their natural diets. That changed with industrial farming. The meat in the supermarket today is not the meat we evolved to eat. In simplest terms the specific fats as well as the amount of them in the final products are very different from traditionally raised or wild caught meat. And veganism as I see it is a reaction to the rise of industrial farming. It's not wanting to participate in what is kind of an ugly industry that produces food of dubious healthfulness when you have the alternative of not doing so. >Animals and nature operate in biomes Industrial farming removes that from the equation, making it polluting while producing food that is not the same as what we evolved to eat. It's understandable that some choose to opt out of it to the degree they can.
Robert Diaz
>The most compatible nutrient with the human body. yeah sorry no meat is in no way a nutrient to us, same with eggs if taken daily, and any adult wanting to drink milk should check themselves
Tyler Green
>meat is in no way a nutrient to us What did he mean by this?
Alexander Allen
Why do vegans like to post blatantly wrong things with such smug sincerity?
Jace Ward
I can tell you that 80% of vegans online are female,while 20% are male.
Camden Sanchez
based view to have user, wish more people were like this.
William Gonzalez
>The dairy/animal fat contains the primary source of protein. The most compatible nutrient with the human body. That's bullshit though.
Also I'm not really vegan, I just don't eat animal products but don't really give a fuck about the morals.
Justin Jackson
What? Is this a fucking joke? Are you fucking trying to say that murdering BILLIONS of animals, wasting BILLIONS of tonnes of greenhouse gases, fueling antibiotic resistant bacteria, being the main source of tropical deforestation etc is OK because fucking cows and sheep would 'go extinct without us'?
Every fucking large animal farm is a disgrace to nature. ALL Farm animals existed in nature at some point. In tune with nature. Animal farms are disgusting monocultures (so are crop farms but we have to eat something). If you stopped farming animals today most of the cows, sheep, chickens would die, because they have been bred to be unsuitable, fat, stupid worthless pieces of garbage. Honestly I am not a vegan who likes farm animals, in fact I hate them more than any other species. My own mother fucking DIED because a fucking species of worm burrowed into her skull and ate her brain and I like that species of worm more than fucking dairy cows. They are an affront to evolution, to biodiversity, to survival of the fittest. Are you aware that 10% of global wilderness has vanished since 1992, on top of what we already destroyed? Cows are one of the most successful species in earths history because of us.
I fucking hate cows. Fuck cows and fuck farm animals. We should fucking pack them into barns to produce manure for fertilizer and every other piece of land used for livestock should be turned back to fucking wildlands with plants and animals that actually exist in a healthy ecosystem. I don't even fucking care when other vegans show me pictures of dairy cows with swollen tits and damaged legs because they would be too fucking scared to end the travesty that is the modern cow, and have no solutions.
Grayson Reed
>why do hippos Because they are omnivores.
Jace Cox
They are herbivores. They do eat some meat (as do pretty much all animals), but its a very minor part of their diet and is almost always carrion. This is no different from another herbivore like deer, which will also eat meat if needed for survival.
Adrian Thomas
They are cannibalistic omnivorous monsters and you know it.
Jose Howard
They're very violent but mostly they just fuck shit up because they're very territorial. Probably because of the crocs
Christian Morgan
I think I'd rather be around a crocodile or alligator than a hippo. Seeing the eyes of them is far less intimidating than seeing the eyes of a hippo. It's like I am biologically programmed to fear them more than actual predators.
Elijah Bennett
That's because hippos kill more people.
But hippos are probably as violent as they are because they share the same waters with crocs, who can't eat them but can eat their babbies.
Jackson Morris
If someone cooks me meat, I'm not gonna reject them. But on my own I cook vegan. I enjoy the challenge, not the turbo autist shit that I seem to find in a lot of vegans.
Thomas Foster
>Wolves are a prime example
They don't kill their prey very kindly though. Does making more room for wolves to eat their prey alive improve animal welfare?
We should genocide all predators.
Justin King
This.
Isaac Phillips
>humans used to be algae i think you don't understand what evolution means
James Lopez
>Even as algae >As algae
Dylan Lopez
What's your opinion on "faux meat" vegan options like tofu burgers or tofurkey or whatever? Easy option or flavorless excuse not to expand your options?
William Evans
>the food with the most bioavailable protein is not a nutrient if taken daily i know that vegans are stupid, but you are obviously baiting. i refuse to believe someone can be this stupid.
Isaiah Martinez
I care about animals but not more than my desire to taste their flesh
Juan Campbell
The beyond burger is pretty good. Portobello burgers fool no one. Seitan is good enough to be used as ground beef in things like chili, but hard to get right on its own.
Chase Rivera
Forgot to say the tofurkey Italian sausage ain't bad.
Hunter Johnson
>God made humans in His image >""evolution"" is a false construct created by Jews to sell bottled water to fish Do you even listen to yourself when you read other people's opinions out loud?
