Arguments against traditionalism that don't boil down to "iPhones are cool though"?

Arguments in favor of traditionalism that don't boil down to "I'm a sheltered first world faggot that seeks relief from his unending boredom by imaging a fictional past that has never existed"?

What do you mean by traditionalism?

Truly is unfortunate that Hitler sperging out all over Europe completely annihilated any chance of that ideology from developing and gaining traction. Now we're stuck with neocons/libs and social democrats.

Again, there is a difference between temporal and metaphysical traditionalism.

Not that you'd care to actually understand this when it's far more easy to project and attack strawmen.

DUDE, LOGICAL FALLACY
DUDE, LIKE DID YOU KNOW PEOPLE DIED QUICKER IN THE PAST, DUDE

this
that could mean any brand of spooked ass /pol/ shit

>be Benito Mussolini
>be a socialist
>at a certain point in your life realize that you're a special Italian snowflake
>conquer the nation
>brainwash the population
>reject reason all together because "I'm a special Italian snowflake"
>reject all the intellectual tradition of enlightenment, humanism and renaissance.
>alienate the vast majority of the best poets, writers and intellectuals of your generation
>adopt economically retarded policies because "I'm a special Italian snowflake"
>manage to be more corrupt than the precedent republic which was corrupt as fuck
>can't even conquer an African nation
>join Germany and start the most atrocious war in the history of humanity because you can't get over the fact that you aren't a special snowflake which ultimately causes death and destruction all over your country
>realize that there's no chance to win so you try to run away
>get caught and get hanged by some commie farmer
Truly the best political system

I know the difference but I like to make fun of Internet traditionalists anyway
>stop using logic it hurts my feelings

>I know the difference but I like to make fun of Internet traditionalists anyway

Vent away. I don't care about playing sports team tier games on the internet about this. Though some apparently do.

>traditionalism
>conservatives
Sure.

Very often they are the ones who brand themselves as traditionalists.

It's very true. They preach free market capitalism, yet are completely oblivious of the fact that wanton economic expansion breaks down traditional values which leads to social degeneracy.

yes, while temporal traditionalism is retarded, metaphysical traditionalism is mega autismo.

The fact that tradition is made up bullshit.

the argument against it is that you would be picking oakum and you don't even know what oakum is so you won't be eating for a week.

The past is continually being defined in the present, constructed and shaped by our current understanding of society and concerns. Traditionalism is ultimately modern because it relies on a modern understanding of the past, so it is kind of dumb to call it traditionalism as if it is anything but a new ideology.

>buying the degeneracy meme

If you say so.

Which is why one reads Christopher Lasch.

Trans rights are late a late capitalist creation to sell more junk.

We tend to "progress", or thet technology does

Arguments for traditionalism that don't boil down to "my life sucks so everyone should change to suit my needs"?

The industrial revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for humanity.

The only genuine traditions are those that have persisted to the present day. This is why Catholicism is the only logical path for modern traditionalists to take.

What about Eastern Orthodox, Hinduism, and *cough* Islam *cough*?

amounts to cuckoldry (you bind yourself to the set ways of living and thinking without being your own individual)
is largely artificial (makes up shit loosely based on ideals of the past - so what makes traditionalism traditional? You can just do anything and claim that it should be retained and it would have just as much validity, most tradition related to national identities and events are largely fabricated and/or highly hyperbolic)
stagnates everything (social, societal, cultural, technological, etc - maybe you desire this in yet another, idealistic fashion but a halted and unnatural world doesn't function, and people aren't happy if they can't live and grow. Basically, as anti-commies who can't define communism say "it doesn't work".)

Of course a little bit of tradition is necessary to retain a group's direction and identity (and an individual's traditions too), it also brings some respite against the undefeatable tide of globalisation/capitalism. In that you actually retain something varied, something unique. As opposed to the mash of semi-progressivist anglo-american culture and civilisation that dominates every country on earth today. You might say homogeneity is a positive thing, but I'd question whether or not it makes us weak-minded, enslaved and removes meaning from the world. It is quite easy to be stuck in one intellectual pattern, one culture that doesn't permit advancement or change where it is needed, or simply for the sake of diversity in views and culture. Not to mention one cultural and political sphere, making it easy to control the world masses.

For the most part it's just another idealists' meme that lacks any real substance.

A stray from traditionalism is absolutely necessary if you look at it from a metaphysical point of view. The world we are living in now is the kali yuga, which is the time when society is strictly anti-traditional. But eventually this will lead us to a new manifestation where the primordial tradition is born again. Everything is a representation of the principle (essence) and a counter, or stray from the principle (substance). And that is no different for the times we are living in. The primordial tradition saw time as being qualitative.

Explain why without turning esotheric

None of that makes any amount of fucking sense. Stop posting on acid.

"iphones are cool though"

They're shit and so is your argument.

One of my country's foremost philosophers and poets said: "There are many kinds of idiots: the worst among them are the ones touched by philosophy." Case in point.

Traditionalism is a retarded fantasy, fake nostalgia. It's harking back to a time where most people had short, miserable lives and where a monarchical elite lived in relative wealth and the rest of the population got cucked out of any decent life. Truly the perfect ideology for pretentious autistic faggots.

w h e a t f i e l d s

the history of humanity is the story of a man crawling out of a muddy hole in the ground up to live in the tops of crystal towers of glass and steel. Certainly the muddy hole in the ground is not to be emulated, but the crawling struggle, the manner of living which allowed humankind to elevate itself ought to be preserved.

Probably the best post in the thread so far. There is no meaningful suffering anymore. Millennials don't see the point in having kids, soldiers don't fight in the front lines anymore to attain glory but instead fight with drones and air strikes in cowardice. Humans have become creatures of comfort and complacency.

The muddy hole is just a waypoint in the crawl from being aquatic life, which is a waypoint in the crawl from being single celled whatevers which is etc etc. Nor are the crystal towers of glass and steel a particular end in themselves, this is all just arbitrary and what you portray as being the meaningful struggle is also arbitrary. We keep our history in museums and our ancient history in museums of natural history, "traditionalism" is no more sensible or valuable than deciding to live your life filter-feeding off silt on the ocean floor.

There is no meaningful suffering anymore. Agricultural age men don't see the point in hunting mammoths for food, women don't scavenge in the woods for berries but instead grow crops and raise cattle in cowardice. Humans have become creatures of comfort and complacency.

you may have gotten heavenly quads but i can smell your nihilism.
of course someone who doesn't believe in meaning would find traditionalism absurd.

Progressives just want to accelerate to heat death but us Traditionalist are comfortable with the Big Bang.

...

Witness... the power of jewish autism...

slatestarcodex.com/2013/10/20/the-anti-reactionary-faq/

and that refutes my post, how?

the power of christ compels you

First one is a completely valid argument

Is this one of those threads where we argue about a word that means something else entirely to one or the other of us?
OP, be so kind to define what you mean by traditionalism before this gets out of hand.

It's by Ted Kaczynski. It's not that long. Read it.

Yeah man and then I'll read Oswald and maybe fucken' Princip(if he ever managed to write anything betweem spitting his lungs out) and bin Laden or Al Zarqawi and the Mollah Omar too.

Contrived struggle has no meaning. Stagnation is antithetical to human nature. Traditionalists' true grievance with modernity seems to be its aesthetics, hence their fixation with 19th century kitsch and neoclassical paintings.

Maybe you should read bin Laden to understand Islamic reactions to Western interactions with the Islamic World.

what's the point of following ideologies?
everything will turn into traditionalism because every ideology will need fundaments to hold onto.

this
we are the same shitheads from 10000 years but in a different time and space

>traditionalism
>arguing with nonbinary faggots on an anonymous message board

if you are on this site you aren't a traditionalist. you're larping. probably because you're momentarily bored of fapping.

ok but without wanton economic expansion your people end up getting conquered and raped by the gooks
so what's your solution

that they are just too pussy to become primitivists

Fuck off my board, Savitri.

Traditional lifestyle is mainly boiled down to fashion.

Traditional philosophy is mainly stoicism.

Assholes like to use both as a boot to keep people beneath them.

Agreed

Agree about Hinduism and Islam. Eastern Orthodoxy wouldnt have survived without the Catholics

Do traditionalists only use android?

brainlet
>because tradition is made up bullshit
normie
pseud
brainlord
>define tradition first

Who's this guy? I'm curious

Traditionalism is undialectic.

History is a conversation. Any one given civilization or era will be answering a set of ideas by positing its own. To be a traditionalist is to say that, at some point, there was a person who had everything figured out for all persons or all times. That's ridiculous on its face.

The patrician approach is to answer the good ideas of the past by improving upon them, and to challenge the bad by arguing against them. Progress, not a final solution, should be the goal.

It depends on what you mean by traditionalism. If you're talking about people who just prefer 1960's style culture then it would be standard liberal/marxist arguments depending on what you are.

If you're talking about the concept of degeneration over time, and a perennial truth being found within tradition, (think Guénon and
Evola) then that's a lot more specific. I'd recommend studying dialectics, "meme theory", arguments for modern ideology, and other things which show a positive growth rate over time instead of degeneration. Another idea would be to study comparative religion and try to prove a concept of improving spirituality over time. It's difficult to do since the concept of us living in an immoral, spiritually dead age seems to be a universal constant in all religions. But if you could tie some kind of enlightenment or gnosis to the passage of time, barring the end of the kalpa, you would have a strong argument against traditionalism.

t. traditionalist LARPer

kek

HABUHBUHBUH HNNNN HABUHBUHBUH HNNN

Arguments against modernity that don't boil down to "iPhones suck though"?

National Socialists were modernizers. Scientific Totalitarianism is not traditional

>people had short, miserable lives and where a monarchical elite lived in relative wealth and the rest of the population got cucked out of any decent life
That sounds like retarded fantasy also dude

This. Evola's fascism was idiosyncratic of Mussolini's fascism, and National Socialism. He never once voted in his life.

iPhones have created an age of people who cannot socialize and are afraid of everything. Meaningful human contact is almost dead.

>be an actual traditionalist (not a conservative fag or a right wing larper)
>come here for a discussion
>hoping to be provided criticism of a worldview I've come to be steadfast in believing in order to gain a new perspective and improve my understanding of life
>strawman - the thread
I am disappointed Veeky Forums

>linear understanding of history
wew lad are you serious

>my social life is almost dead
ftfy

>adopt economically retarded policies because "I'm a special Italian snowflake"
yeah, should have adopted socialist policies instead

>Implying history is progressive

No I do not need to read bin Laden to understand the Muslim reaction to the Western world. If you like that psycho fuck so muc stop posting and go live in the woods you LARPing faggot. Or blow something up, I'm sure there's a nice cell waiting for you.

Lucian Blaga. I'm not sure about him being translated tho, but he's great. I like himr better than Cioran but not as much as I like Sorescu.

>technological progress is not an argument, I'd rather work for some factory owner for 14h a day and die off some easy preventable disease and live off rats

Then present your view first instead of throwing around words than can be interpreted in multitudes of ways.

He'd be toiling in a field for a feudal lord which is even worse

That's because no one was willing to push his wheelchair to the voting booth

People have far fewer friends today than they did 50 years ago.

Brainlet.

You being an absolute loser with no social life now would have been exactly the same 50 or 500 years ago. Neck yourself.

>roman slaves worked on average the same amount of time per day as a person working a normal job today

h-he he y-yeah things are great nowadays

It's not good but it's better than ever because you don't die of toothache, there are no hordes of barbarians at the city gates and you don't starve. Go live in the woods if you don't like it.

Roman slavery was pretty similar to our jobs actually, in most other societies it was way worse.

Besides, you're free to learn whatever skills you want to work as many hours as you want today, or skip work at all. You have more means to act against your employer if they are a dick towards you, outside of Murica at least.

today.duke.edu/2006/06/socialisolation.html

People are more socially isolated thanks to increases in technology and the way modern society is set up. Present an actual argument.

My point stands. You're a loser and you would have bee no matter when or where.

Nah.

A safe and painless existence is not necessarily more fulfilling or rewarding than the opposite.

>You have more means to act against your employer if they are a dick towards you

I can't challenge him to a duel to the death now that's for sure.

*TIPS UNLIMITED FEDORAS*

meanwhile this is you.