He's concerned with harming sentient beings, so he eats a more alien sentient being

Because they aren't
Don't announce sage faggot. It's not a downvote.

>react to their environment and make predictions on which places will be the best to grow
>not sentient

Reacting to their environment doesn't necessarily equate to experiencing subjectivity.

They don't pick where to grow, they evolved so that it's more likely they grow in advantageous places.

The only part of veganism I agree with is how animals are treated poorly when they're mass slaughtered. Other than that they're obnoxious faggots who need to stop shoving their lifestyle choice in others' faces.

>make predictions on which places are best to grow
What? I know I'm biting the bait hard but what? Plant's don't pick where they grow user.

it's practically impossible to be a vegan when the plants you eat were grown in soil that was fertilized with the shit and ground bones of animals.
nobody even has the choice to remain innocent anymore

B-b-but plants are grown in harming artificial ways which destroys the planet and p-pesticides kill millions upon millions of insects and animals a-user

what's offensive to me is that they're trying to avoid making animals feel bad even though they are not directly responsible for the animals suffering

if that's the way they want to live life then why do they arbitrarily choose to stop eating meat so that livestock animals won't be killed? Almost everything you do in living your life is going to cause some kind of suffering to somebody or something.

>Why do vegans ignore the fact that plants are sentient?
This reality deals a shocking blow to not only their dietary choices, but likely their entire outlook on the world because rather than being these open minded intellectuals, they're only pseudo-intellectuals who jump on bandwagons like every other pleb and his/her mother.

Also, considering the lack of creatine and micronutrients taken in by what I would guess to be the majority of "vegans", they probably cant comprehend such a concept because of cognitive deficiencies.

Venus fly trap works off a reflex

I don't eat venus traps

So they have cognitive deficiencies before they become vegan because they are vegan?

Prove that animals don't just react to their environment. Hell, prove that human beings don't. The only difference is compexity.

Plants don't think. Higher-level animals do. A reaction is not a thought process. Animals can also have a memory. Plants cannot. Essentially, a plant can sense, turn this impulse into a signal, and react. Animals can sense, turn this impulse into a signal, further process this signal and "store" it, and then react. There's a "computer" involved.

>first!

clap clap clap clap

>A reaction is not a thought process.
But thought processes are literally also just biochemical reactions so what's your point

Plants dont even have a CNS, let alone sentience

it's less about the plant having that much strength than prey's body not being articulated well enough to make its way out. like frog in op's pic, its legs are probably easily strong enough to snap the thing open, if it had some way of easily pushing on it

meanwhile slugbro here easily pushes apart the sides to gtfo cause its means of movement isn't really inhibited by being squeezed

like to stick my wiener in there

They’re really incredible plants. Hard to believe they’re only native to a small patch lf swamps in North Carolina sometimes.

Many plants have evolved with specific methods of survival that can't be contributed to simple reflex actions. Like how a lot of plants rely on insects to breed, others save water in desert environments, some have poisonous seeds so they don't get eaten while other plants will make their seeds to be tasty so that they do get eaten and deposited somewhere in an animal's poop, etc.
I mean, at some point there must have been a thought process. A decision was made. The plant has contemplated the meaning of life and how to exist, and they seem to have the same basic instincts that all animal life has. To breed and find food.
They are no different to the rest of us who live on this planet. If you cut a tree it will bleed. If you drop a fruit it will bruise.
It's no secret that plants communicate with each and some horticulturalists even insist that if you talk to them then they'll grow faster and healthier.
Plants are sentient beings and eating them is no different to eating any other animal.

None of those things you mentioned display any thought process.

All of them are an evolved trait, which requires no thought.

Your a retard.

oh snap dog here's a (you) for letting me get a two for one meme

>Your a retard.
>Your

>Because they aren't
When under attack by insects, plants can release a specific chemical to attract the specific predator insect that will arrive and start eating the insects that are attacking it and doing it harm. Plants also cater their sugar release at the root zone to attract specific microbes and bacteria that release nutrients the plants need when they become deficient. Plants are every bit as sentient as we are. They just express it in a different way.

>making no distinction between grades of moral behavior
Either troll or brainlet...probably both. This is like saying there's no difference between shoplifting and murder, because committing a crime is committing a crime.

Everyone realizes that life feeds on other life and there's no escaping this. The choice vegans make is to sustain their lives on the most basic, non-intelligent life possible. No one but the most deranged hippies would agree with OP that plants are sentient or capable of feeling pain, but everyone can agree that pigs are capable of both these things.

A moral person who is concerned with causing the least amount of suffering possible by his existence will choose his food according to this desire. Most people are not mature enough to seriously consider their life in these terms. Once (if) you escape the babby-tier morality of "good = what pleases me" then you can start to consider the impact your life choices have on the people and other living being that surround you but sadly, most people never reach this point.

>Plants are every bit as sentient as we are.
You're a fucking idiot. I understand that you're just trying to troll and don't actually believe any of this nonsense you're posting, but for the sake of argument, here is a basic diagram of wheat. Can you identify the structure or structures which make wheat sentient? In animals, this structure is the brain and nervous system. Which structure, specifically, is it in wheat?

That’s why the most ethical diet is fruitarian, but it’ll fuckin kill you

>Either troll or brainlet...probably both. This is like saying there's no difference between murdering a white person or a black person, because committing a crime is committing a crime.
Well, yes. Murder is murder and black lives matter.

Not even meme'ing. But think about what your saying. Brainlet.

>if it's not an animal it can't possibly feel anything!
Point out the lungs on wheat

rsif.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/14/131/20170096#abstract-1

>someone has a different viewpoint
>they must be trolling!!

Wheat stopped being a sentinent being when Monsteranto started mutating it into a zombie crop. It will literally eat your brain from the inside out.

Proof = you (brainlet).

cnn.com/notfakenews/Switzerland-bans-boiling-plants-alive.html

>if it's not an animal it can't possibly feel anything!
Everything we know about sensory processing says that yes, this is the case. Plants do not possess any structures for processing sensations like pain. If you have identified one then by all means, enlighten us and make sure to publish your findings so the rest of the world can learn from your incredible discovery.

Are you honestly claiming that the difference between a black and white human is equivalent to the difference between a pig and an ear of corn? No one can be this retarded. At least the vegans who show up in these threads can intelligently defend their positions. All you morons can do is say shit like, "Mowing the lawn is identical to gunning down a class of schoolchildren. There is no moral difference between pruning a rosebush and cutting off a dog's legs because plants possess exactly the same level of sentience and ability to process pain as any animal".

>But think about what your saying. Brainlet.
>can't distinguish homonyms
>calls other people brainlet

Stop evading the question, you little coward. You seem very sure that plants are sentient so you must have some basis for this belief besides your own stupidity, yes? All I asked was for you to explain it to the rest of us. We're not as smart as you so please teach us how plants are able to be sentient without possessing any of the organs which all extant science shows are requirements for sentience.

What, you can't do it? You really can't do it?

>retarded
no u
>Mowing the lawn is identical to gunning down a class of schoolchildren
Nobody said that. You just did, and that's retarded. Because grass doesn't die when you cut it. Brainlet.

>Nobody said that.
See
>Destroying life is destroying lfe. Hypocrites.

>Because grass doesn't die when you cut it.
Did you think that a blueberry bush dies when you pick its berries? You didn't really think that, right? Do you even understand the function of a fruit? Let me help you, you poor little child:

>Fruits are the means by which angiosperms disseminate seeds. Edible fruits, in particular, have propagated with the movements of humans and animals in a symbiotic relationship as a means for seed dispersal and nutrition.
Animals picking and eating fruits is how fruit-bearing plants spread their seeds. They are literally grown by the plant for the sole purpose of being taken and eaten by animals. Not only does this not harm the plant but it is the plant's sole means of reproduction.

>Plants do not possess any structures for processing sensations like pain

Plants do not possess any structures that, in animals, are known to process sensations like pain. It’s silly to assume plants can’t feel just because they’re different from us.

There’s a popular vegan horror story about what might happen to humans if we couldn’t prove ourselves sentient to alien invaders. They never consider that plants live that horror story every day.

>your own stupidity
ad hominem = white flag
>explain it to the rest of us
>us
pretending to have allies displays your feelings of weakness. ()another white flag)
now all you need to do is be condescending to complete your submission and disply your cowardice for the world to see.
>We're not as smart as you so please teach us
...and there it is. your dissent has been finalised.

the fact of the matter is that plants are sentient beings and eating them is no different to eating any other animal. i agree with a lot of what vegans have to say and there are a lot of great reasons to avoid consuming animal products but they have no higher moral ground to stand on in relation to killing what was once alive.

>dissent
*demise

gfy

the fact of the matter is you're autistic and a troll here's a (you)

yawn. faggot

This is possibly the worst thread on Veeky Forums right now, and that says a lot given the numerous shill threads I see in the catalog.

>the fact of the matter is that plants are sentient beings
So you keep saying and yet you can't seem to offer even the slightest bit of evidence in favor of your claims.

>ad hominem = white flag
That's cute. What would you call these, then?
>Brainlet.
>(brainlet).
>Brainlet.
>in b4 "b-but it's different when I do it!"

You can hypothesize about whatever fantasy scenarios you like but here's the basic fact of the matter: you have to eat other living things to survive. Fact. Of your two options (plants and animals) we have only been able to prove that animals are sentient and capable of feeling pain. Fact. It may very well be that you're sitting on some secret discovery that proves that plants are in fact sentient beings that feel pain but until you release it, we have two choices:

A) Eat something we know is sentient and capable of feeling pain.
B) Eat something that may be sentient and capable of feeling pain, but if it is we haven't been able to prove it.

A moral person will always choose the second option. REGARDLESS, THIS ISN'T EVEN A FUCKING ISSUE BECAUSE EATING PLANTS DOESN'T HARM THEM. YOU ARE LITERALLY HELPING THEM SPREAD THEIR SEEDS. THEIR ENTIRE REPRODUCTIVE STRATEGY CENTERS ON THE ASSUMPTION THAT ANIMALS WILL EAT THEIR FRUIT. This is in caps not because I'm mad but because you losers keep ignoring this point. Please address it while you provide your proof of plant sentience.

>denial
>dismissive
>more insults
how unpredictable!

(samefag)
>i got told so i don't like this thread

[more thinking intensifies]

(samefag again
>hang on a minute i just thought of a way to save face anonymously!!!
>[insults intensify]
tldr, tbqh.

>EATING PLANTS DOESN'T HARM THEM
lol yeah i'm sure , what you're talking about only works on fruiting plant.

>gets btfo repeatedly
>starts pretending he's stopped reading the posts
3/10, very poor effort. I'm done with you. But for the next time you make this thread, please try to come up with a way in which eating fruit harms a plant. I'm sure you can do it if you try!

Good, so we agree that fruitarianism is the objectively superior human diet for anyone concerned with the moral implications of their dietary choices?

Excellent user, excellent. I'm glad we were able to come to this conclusion together.

>EATING PLANTS DOESN'T HARM
>YOU ARE LITERALLY HELPING THEM SPREAD THEIR SEED
If I kill a plant it doesn't harm the plant? and if I just eat the leaves then that dead plant breeds more? I am confused.

>eating pounds of fruit a day

>no u
the post

We're not talking about chopping off leaves, you disingenuous little fucker. We're talking about fruit and seed bearing plants. This includes all fruits, seeds, and nuts. All of these are naturally shed by the plants. You can pick them up off the ground after the plant drops them if you really want. How does this harm the plant?

>Fruitarianism is a diet that consists entirely or primarily of fruits in the botanical sense, and possibly nuts and seeds
This includes legumes, which are botanically a fruit. All grains are seeds, as are nuts. If you can't put together a balanced diet with this selection then you have no imagination.

even moving the goal posts wont work for you because eating a fruit is like eating an egg. just an unfertilised form of the living thing, and vegans don't eat eggs.

>Why do vegans ignore the fact that plants are sentient?
this desu, evidence point towards the fact that plants are able to make decisions.

>Animals can also have a memory. Plants cannot.

Actually, some plants do remember.

phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/2015/12/15/can-a-plant-remember-this-one-seems-to-heres-the-evidence/

...

>seeds are equivalent to eggs
Jesus christ son, there's a limit to how far you should pretend to be retarded. Do you really not understand how fruit-bearing plants reproduce? A seed from a fruit is not "an unfertilised form of the living thing". It is the entire living thing and that living thing reproduces like this:

>plant produces fruit full of seeds
>fruit tastes good so animal eats it
>seeds pass through animal's digestive tract
>seeds are deposited on the ground when the animal excretes them, surrounded by fertilizer and ready to begin growing

Now, I suspect you're going to take this to a really absurd extreme and claim something like, "Well, you're just shitting those seeds into a toilet and they're never going to grow so eating a strawberry is basically giving 30 abortions to a potential strawberry plant" but no one is stupid enough to rise to that. We could do this all night but I think we both know that you're just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point. No vegan on the planet believes that eating fruit is the same as eating an egg.

>A seed from a fruit is not "an unfertilised form of the living thing"
>seeds are deposited on the ground when the animal excretes them, surrounded by fertilizer

>not unfertilised
>but needs to be fertilised
plz don't breed

Oh for fuck's sake. Ok, you got me with that one. Good job, I fell for it, I got trolled. One last (you) for the night, congratulations.

A FERTILIZER in the botanical sense is
>any material of natural or synthetic origin that is applied to soils or to plant tissues to supply one or more plant nutrients essential to the growth of plants.

Which is different than an egg which must be FERTILIZED in the biological sense, which is
>the fusion of gametes to initiate the development of a new individual organism.

Ok? Ok.

the fact is that if you place a fruit on a table it won't grow into a plant. it is to a plant what en egg is to a chicken. you could even argue over what came first. the plant, the fruit, or me all over your mum's face.

so in that regard a fruit is the same as an egg. vegans don't eat eggs because an egg is an animal product. just a fruit is a plant product.

sweet dreams huneybunny. don't let the bed bugs bite!

congrats. you are the winner of the dumbest thing i've read on the internets today.

Holy god I'm loving this. I'm glad that veganism is getting to the point where you actively have anti-vegans coming out of the woodwork first instead of it being the other way around.

>The ol plants are sentient argument

The thread should have been dead immediately because the OP played himself. You should have at least gone straight to >Humans have always done it
or
>You need meat as part of your diet or you'll literally fucking die

Literally almost any other argument against veganism could be turned into an actual discussion, but no, you go for the most retarded one ever.

Enjoy being a bitter old person in the future when most of society has finally realized there are no benefits to meat, at all, and it does a net harm to your health, the environment, animals, and plants.

Also you forgot that if you HONESTLY cared about plants being eaten, you should still be vegan because we feed the majority of crops to livestock in the first place.

Please educate yourself.

>implying the vast majority of plants aren't consumed by livestock

This argument is hilarious and shows how much a person really has no idea about how the food industry works.

>we feed the majority of crops to livestock
>the vast majority of plants aren't consumed by livestock
[citation needed]
Show me stats that prove more plants are eaten by farm animals tham are eaten by humans.

Remember that GMO grains don't count because they're not fit for human consumption.

Also, the argument isn't that vegans shouldn't eat plants because we all have to eat something. Just that they shouldn't assume a higher moral standpoint because eating plants is just as ethical or inethical as eating animals.
And if there's a plant in your room it is watching you masturbate when you think you're alone.

It's great because either you're a good troll, or you're an insane person that thinks plants are watching him masturbate.

You know what, you're right, there's no difference between eating a plant and shooting a dog, how have I been so blind, thank you user.

i offered you an out point and you pounced like a seagul on a hot chip.

proving that you have no argument.

plants = animals

Note, it's not just directly *cow eats grass*, it's everything caused by animal agriculture.

It's responsible for up to 91% of rainforest deforestation.

mightyearth.org/mysterymeat/

nytimes.com/2017/02/24/business/energy-environment/deforestation-brazil-bolivia-south-america.html?_r=0

documents.worldbank.org/curated/en/758171468768828889/pdf/277150PAPER0wbwp0no1022.pdf

rainforests.mongabay.com/0812.htm

fao.org/docrep/ARTICLE/WFC/XII/0568-B1.HTM

globalissues.org/article/240/beef

wisoybean.org/news/soybean_facts.php

You can get 15x more protein on any given area of land with plants, rather than cows.

Soybeans can be produced at 52. 5 bushels per acre (cornandsoybeandigest.com/blog/usda-projects-record-corn-and-soybean-crop-2016) x 60 lbs. per bushel (unc.edu/~rowlett/units/scales/bushels.html) = 3,150 dry soybeans per acre

Soybeans protein content (dry) is 163.44 grams per pound (nutritiondata.self.com/facts/legumes-and-legume-products/4375/2)

The protein content per acre of soybeans is 163.44 g x 3,150 lb. = 514,836 g per acre
Beef can be produced at 205 pounds per acre
(lib.dr.iastate.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1722&context=ans_air)

Beef protein content (raw) is 95.34 grams per pound (nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/7493/2)

The protein content per acre of beef is 95.34 g x 205 lb. = 19,544.7 g per acre

You're fucking retarded because even if they were the same thing morally, shifting to a fully plant based diet still results in a net benefit for the world.

Where are your sources?

dubs for the win.

but i'm gonna throw in the towel for now coz gonna cook dinner, which will be a combination of animals and plants. seasoned with rocks and bacteria.

>Where are your sources?
for what claims?

That plants are sentient. An actual study done that concludes plants are sentient. You've responded to people on individual topics like memory, but that's your game, you offered literally nothing of note for your initial claim.

referencing: >horticulturalists even insist that if you talk to them then they'll grow faster and healthier
i can search google for you but i really gotta go cook now.

I'm not a vegan, and it's okay to be critical of veganism, but it's really hard to find fault with the ones who are vegan for moral reasons. You can't expect vegans to just starve but by not directly killing animals for food it does seem to minimize any potential suffering. I'm not a vegan for health reasons because animal products provide high quality protein and iron which I need, but I have a lot of respect for moral vegans. I just think that cultured/lab-grown meat is a better solution than veganism, and in the mean time only eating what you really need, getting meat from good sources, and not wasting anything until cultured meat is available.

>A moral person
That's the point most relevant to me and this discusiions?
Moral according to who and which standart?
Christians? Religious people? Marxists then?
This isn't a moral decision, moral are a set of efficient rules for the survival of a group tested through time.
It's your self importance and need to be better than other by social made up standart instead of actually being more useful to your native social group.

Plants feel intense stress when injured.
Thy have no nerve no mouth but they must scream.
And do so chemically.

Nice pilpul, marxist.
Unfertilized eggs are the equivalent of shed hair.
It can only rot at this point.
In vegetable term, only a fruit without seed would be close.
Any other fruit is a new plant, and as we know, life start at conception.
Vegans are retard trying to elevate themselves socially because they are genetic dead end wasting resources.
They should be removed to let more refugees in.

Veganism isn't a moral choice, it's a social choice similar to religious behavior.
And I consider them a dangerous sect of marxism to be hunted on sight.

>don't actually believe any of this nonsense you're posting
Mechanisms of plant defense against insect herbivores
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3493419/

Plant root-microbe communication in shaping root microbiomes
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4819777/

You should try growing some plants, dude. Then you might actually learn to appreciate how they communicate, do some research, and won't be such an ignorant, bitter faggot.

>ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4819777/
checked!

pic related is mfw reading these.
like, fuck, dude. who hurt you.

You did, repeatedly.
By being slaves with no understanding of how your action degenerate your native social groups.

but you get off on being hurt, like some kind of sick fetish. weirdo.

i.4cdn.org/wsg/1519805091837.webm

>you get off on
You say that I don't.
I don't leave marxist and vegan sprea their bullshit because I do not tolerate lies. It's a ssimple as understanding there are politicals undertone under their claims.

>there are politicals undertone under their claims
such as?

Augmenting your visibility beyond your physical representation allow you to funnel resources (money/time) you don't deserve toward your subcultural group.
It's a social behavior rooted in political positioning, not health, and not Moral these marxist atheist reject in EVERY other situation, so fucking transparent.
Simple for the ((dumbdumb)) you are:
It is a way to force a social group intoweakeing itself by targeting their weakest members and passing their dysfunction as norm.

tldr; vegans are racist
ok

sheesh

Can a frog really not overpower a fucking plant?

dumb plant poster

Plants are aware, not sentient. Animals might have some sort of sentience, but not conscience.
I'll eat both just so that no one feels bad

Sentience and being are two different things friendo.

But you are right in a sense; plants are living things that feel sensation, you are ending life to sustain your own. This is the Despair of Consumption and one of the uglier truths of Life; however it doesn't really matter. Death visits us all equally, it doesn't matter if its by means of consumption, disease, violence or old age. Death is Death, Life is Life; if you are so worried about the things you are hurting by consuming, then simply stop consuming and pursue Nirvana.

If you don't want to die, then just eat eggs/fruits/nuts/ and byproducts of living things.

It's not that hard man, either don't give a fuck because everything eventually dies, give a fuck so much that you write yourself out of the cycle of life/death/rebirth, or slightly give a fuck where you choose a restrictive diet because of your feelings in this temporary lifetime that you were born into, in a world where things must end the life of other things to continue living.

Not as deep as you think. What a waste of language.

Spotted the moron who can't understand basic Jain/Bhuddist concepts.

has anyone ever stuck their dick in one of those?