Socrates dont exits man

>the results of a democracy are truthful and can be trusted

Fuck you

t. Plato

The Socrates Plato writes about didn't exist. The real Socrates was a literal retard who asked stupid questions to annoy people. Plato thought that was heroic or something and made him intoa genius.

democracies actually are, a mobocracy isn't. Plato was a part of his -own- democracy.

>t. Has a worldview resting on mountains of ill-defined assumptions and is triggered when questioned

>calling the Aristophanes account triggered
g2bed plato you're ugly and jelly socrates had other friends

Xenophon is second rate

Imagine being Plato; always sitting in the front row of class, listening intently to your teacher's words, dedicating your life to following his example, being so enraptured by Socrates that you make him the center of your life's work. And through it all Socrates ignores you and instead focuses all his attentions on and fawns over the proto-Chad Alcibiades. That must have been tough.

Just like Jesus.

Nah. Consider that there is a 2400 year difference, there are a lot of differences, but yoy can discern the meaning. No, I was talking about translating to a fullstop, his syntax has prepositions and verbs all over the place.
Aristotle wrote in demotic conpared to Xenophon, to give you an idea.

Yeah, Plato must have been eternally buttdevastated that every bright mind in the area stufied at his school.

Sadly true but still underrated. First war corespondent.

Socrates was the Logos made flesh. He was incarnated at exactly the right time and he shared his celestial wisdom with the Greeks so they might become good men. Anyone who denies the life of Socrates as told by Plato is a heretic. Socrates' theory of the forms and ladder of love -- where mortal love is at the bottom, and a divine idea of Love itself at the top -- informed the apostles and early Church fathers, the very same men who wrote the New Testament and colored the life of their messiah with Socrates' idiosyncracies, anecdotes, brusque manners, and philosophy. And how did the mob reward our beloved Greek, the hero they needed most? An unjust death. You heretics keep denying Socrates. Despising him only hurts you, and he doesn't want that. Come to Socrates, anons.

I have already forsworn false gods and have already created a sculpt of the Unknowledgable one out of the walls of my house. I patiently await my turn in the soul lottery once I die and hope to become reborn a holy man; as he, once struck in mortal flesh, manifested into our world.

All this just because he asked some questions.

I bet reading it with adult brain would help quite a bit. Some Veeky Forumstard decided to force quality into young minds, wasting it.

It's really a waste to teach a 17 year old ancient greek syntax, it felt like a chore. However nowadays I am able to more or less get the general meaning of every classical attic text (Pindar, Sappho and Homer are out of the question), since I have done my own research in my own timing.
Sorta unrelated but here is a reading of Xenophon's Anabasis' first chapter in ancient greek reconstructed pronounciation
youtube.com/watch?v=vEcQxQRVa-A

>>socrates dont exits man
who the fuck has ever said this?

Many times here, and it's a somewhat popular theory among profs and students.

>ancient greek reconstructed pronounciation
different dead language fag here, does the greek school system make you to aural and oral tests for pronunciation?

Thankfully it is only mentioned as a footnote, I can't even begin to imagine the laughter of teenagers if they were forced to study the pronounciation.
Actually, it was a heavily contested topic that only got resolved a couple of years ago. Many teachers didn't think that the language was pronounced like that, but there was just to much evidence, both in ancient texts and even some modern dialects.

yeah alexander leaving behind so many men kind of preserved a lot of pockets of koine. we had to do both across a few accents but i think most people banked on it being a small part of the grade.

I think the accent should be a bonus, it's not like anyone not truly obsessed will ever bother to actually learn it.
I had a class of ancient hebrew that you had to read an actual anciet text to pass, I just studied the letters and some pronounciation rules for 2 hours and passed it easily. Don't remember shit know aside from some letter names.

i think that was only if you were in the honours stream, so it kind of made sense (until most university courses dropped their expectations for an undergrad). we also had a philology section, which in some ways helped because you could related it to other languages, but probably isn't the sort of thing that most students need.

Imo students should be taught what is absolutely essential, you can't force all the concepts together and expect them to give a shit.

i think that's why most of the ordinary stream couldn't string two words together, because they learn enough to pass the weeks before the test and then just forget about it forever. sucks if you want all honours and not dead languages but them's the breaks.

Shame really, Greeks could learn the system more easily but who got time for dat
What language did you study?

there were two like that. one was latin, and the other i won't tell you because it potentially gives away my alma mater. i think the italians have a system where you have to opt into high schools that teach latin and greek, so only those who want the languages get them.

i think dead languages were technically optional, but the only person at my school who didn't take at least two was someone doing four living languages.

Daily reminder that Socrates was a traitor who taught the 30 that destroyed Athens and deserved to be executed, or at least, exiled.

That's not to say Plato's and Xenophon's writings shouldn't be studied, they're pretty comfy.

From where in the fuck did you come up with that? Read Plato's letters about the thirty. What would cause you to invent that? Socrates wasn't real. Tell me how he influenced thirty tyrants that went against 'his' ideals

/thread

I don't understand this theory either, because Plato uses numerous dramatis personæ in his writings that were also real people, so to assume that only one was false and take the rest makes no sense.
Also, I think the most resonable way of determining the veracity of Socrates is his appearance in Aristophanes' The Clouds. If he was just a figment of Plato's writings, and therefore not accessible to that many people, it would make no sense for Aristophanes to make him the central joke to a play running for public competition. We also know that the play that it lost to was also about Socrates, so he must have been a real figure of the time period for satire and speculation to fall on him.

If he was a major character (fictional character like non-Christians drawing donkeys on crosses all over the place) of the Greek mystery religions it would make sense for Aristophanes to make fun of him in clouds. If he was a serious philosopher like plato, an intellectual like Aristophanes wouldn't fuck with him because they would be friends, running in the same circles. It is only because Socrates (lord of life) was a fictional character that he would be made fun of by another aristocrat (one of the two other accounts of his fictional existence)

Critias was one of Socrate's students, who hated democracy just as he did.
Not only that, but the terror squads that alongside the Spartan forces maintained the dictatorship were the "Socratified Youth" (Rich and young aristocrats who where fans of Sparta ), that Aristophanes describes in his plays.

On top of that, the most famous of Socrates's disciples, Plato, made Critias an honorable character in his dialogues. And what Critias wished to do by force, Plato attempts to create with myths and indoctrination.

If Socrates wanted to stand against the thirty's regime, he should have fled the city, like many moderates and even oligarchs did , or spoken up against the tyrants, like Theramenes, who paid with his life for doing so.

But that's just my opinion, desu. Read the Trial of Socrates, by I. F. Stone

Socrates is God

My point is that the jokes wouldn't land unless he was a public figure, as most of them resolve around his exaggerated public image (for instance, the first scene he literally descends forms the ceiling, as he was pondering the heavenly bodies; if he was a religious character this wouldn't be a joke). If he belonged to mystery cults or even just an invention of the academy, then considerable knowledge of him would only be accessible by a select group. Aristophanes lumps him in with the sophists, and it is in this context that he appears and aids the main character. And if anyone would make fun of aristocrats, it was Aristophanes who did so frequently.

No.
Socrates is a man.
And all men are mortals.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalatta!_Thalatta!
>The phrase appears in Book 1 of James Joyce's 1922 novel Ulysses when Buck Mulligan, looking out over Dublin Bay, says to Stephen Dedalus, "God! ... Isn't the sea what Algy calls it: a great sweet mother? The snotgreen sea. The scrotumtightening sea. Epi oinopa ponton. Ah, Dedalus, the Greeks! I must teach you. You must read them in the original. Thalatta! Thalatta! She is our great sweet mother. Come and look." In Book 18, Molly Bloom echoes the phrase in the closing moments of her monologue: "and O that awful deepdown torrent O and the sea the sea crimson sometimes like fire."
For extremely smart people