"It's cruel/selfish to bring a baby into this world"

>"It's cruel/selfish to bring a baby into this world"

Is there anything that can make the blood boil quicker than hearing someone say this? It's always used by people who want to appear empathetic but really are just concealing their hedonism.

>Not just getting used to that black person smell
M8 if you don't you're just going to go nuts

Every night before going to bed I hope I don't wake up again

>step into the gym
>can immediately tell if there are blacks inside
>get back home
>a reminiscent smell
>I-it cant be
>run to moms room and slam open the door
>mfw

S Q U I D D Y

Why are yellow people so racist?

You sure they're hedonist and not just depressed? Because I say that and it mostly stems from the fact that life to me has been a constant stream of disappointment which will end in a hilarious tragedy.

Just have a fucking baby so you won't have any more time or energy to shitpost on Veeky Forums already then, my homosexual friend.

>Is there anything that can make the blood boil quicker than hearing someone say this

I'm in the same boat, the child free camp is absolutely repulsive. Also it's such a fucking nonsensical and ignorant argument: this is literally the BEST time to be alive in all of human history, our forebears had to endure far greater struggles in order to get to this point, and you want to abstain from children, end your line, so you can go on fucking cruises for the rest of your life?

Fucking degenerates.

Don't you mean faggots? Literally, faggots are the biggest culprits of this. However, the majority of people having babies are niggers, chinks, and poo-in-loos.

I disagree with the part about this being the best time to be alive, but it ultimately doesn't matter, making children is a duty more or less

Quality

They're too pragmatic to waste time tip-toeing through the tulips of political correctness.

Without existence, there is no suffering.
With existence, there is suffering.

It's as simple as that boys

How's highschool?

>tfw buddhists and high school nihilists are practically indistinguishable on Veeky Forums

I used to think this but I changed my mind after reading Every Cradle is a Grave. It presents some really solid arguments for antinatalism imo

They want to be white, and that means they have to show that they're superior to blacks.

You have one (1) minute to explain why suffering is something that should always be avoided

The sentence is not wrong but their logical leap is very sketchy. It is a selfish and potentially cruel thing to bring life in this world but there are many ways to justify it. That said the entire discussion about having a child is interesting. For example, are Christians morally obligated to have a child in an attempt to raise them in god's light or would it be more moral to not have a child due to the risk of them going to hell? That said, anyone who just says "Having a child is too expensive/stressful" and getting a pet are just idiots. You're supposed to sacrifice for the child and these people just aren't willing to do it therefore they take themselves out of the gene pool.
I personally can't morally justify having a child as my genes aren't exactly great; I have terrible eye sight, high risk of diabetes and cancer, along with history of heart disease and mental illness.

Duty to whom?
That entirely depends on your religious beliefs. Logically speaking if you have the option to suffer or not you would always speak not to. It gets more nuanced as suffering typically begets change through perseverance though it's not always a good change. I would counter-argue how do you morally justify having a child knowing that a large amount of their lives will be struggling and suffering.
Nuance is for shitters

>the argument against reproducing is contingent upon the era you live in
top brainlet
it has nothing to do with the quality of any particular life and everything to do with the nature of all life

>Best time to live in human history
Shut up Pinkman.

>Fucking degenerates.
I'll experience more pleasure than you ever will, mostly due to not having children and focusing on my career :^) I'm sure your offspring will enjoy a variety of Schlomo's psy-opses, though.

A S S /s4s/ approved

if only it were this simple

if the world population surpasses 10 billion this shit is probably just done

the decline has already begun

Most hedonistic people I've known have been depressed. Worshipping pleasure does not a happy life make.

LOL people actually believe this. The only issue that is of any relevance is the population of intelligent, capable people. If we had 10 billion high IQ Germans, we would colonize the Galaxy. 10 billion African ISIS members, you're probably right.

>le world is overpopulated meme

so euphoric rn

Why the fuck would we want to conquer the galaxy? Literally every planet we have observed that is within even tens of thousands of lightyears of us would be worse to live on than earth. That's like being proud of conquering Antarctica.

Personally, I think it's selfish, on a societal level, to actively decide to create your own child when you might have decided to adopt a child instead. Obviously, it's not that black and white – you might raise arguments surrounding the shared characteristics of progeny, or even eugenics – but in most cases, the reasons against adoption, as opposed to procreation, ultimately come down to hubris.

As for the cruelty supposed by an antinatalist argument... I don't think any of us can answer that until we know whether life is ultimately worth living, and I don't think we can answer that until we know what parameters a life well lived is measured against.

But we won't have 10 billion high-IQ Germans and you know it. You're just sharing your power fantasy, a pipe-dream. First World isn't going to have higher birth-rates unless in the aftermath of a global war, but even then it's doubtful, seeing as baby boomers were a pre-contraception phenomenon. In other words, you'd have to force people into procreating or make artificial human wombs a reality.
The Third World is. As a side note, the average Yank and Brit contribute immensely to humanity's carbon footprint. Follow the example of Czech's, they're First World and recycle/are environmentally woke.

Who wouldn't want to conquer Antarctica? Are you trolling me? Regardless, that's not germane to the point I was making. If we had 10 billion high IQ, hardworking people, we would solve all of Earth's problems, easily.

(this isn't to say Im high IQ or hardworking btw: I'm not)

This is just naive and wrong
Put a bunch of smart people together and all they do is argue

>Who wouldn't want to conquer Antarctica?
The entirety of human history suggests the answer to this is: pretty much everyone.
Also, you're full of shit. There's no reason to think everyone having a high IQ would solve all the world's problems. Although killing off all the stupid people would at least get rid of you.

This, lol. Anyone who thinks otherwise clearly hasn't spent much time around academics.

Oh dear me that's rather a lot of Africans coming down the pike. Good thing wealthy, sparsely populated Western countries have such sensible immigration policies and strict border controls. . .

Yeah, they argue until they come to a reasonable compromise that most people can kind of agree with, and then they implement it.

It only takes a change in belief system. The reddit meme hero himself, Elon Musk, is on record saying that intelligent people need to have more children. In China, organizations like BGI are developing tools for eugenics that are accepted by the Chinese government/people, and will soon be accepted by all but the most cuckliest of christcucks. It certainly won't be a "white" future (as if that matters), but it will be a high IQ future.

I genuinely believe that most families, if given an option to do embryo selection for health, good looks, and intelligence, would take the option. Nobody wants to raise a dopey manlet with asthma. They want the quarterback that goes to Stanford. Soon, they'll have that option.

Oh right, I guess that's why academics never accomplish anything through collaboration. There are never multiple authors on research papers, and top scientists never work together to solve tough problems. And top companies with research divisions never hire top academics to collaborate on research for them. Bell Labs never existed.

Ever heard of this thing called competition? Jealousy? Hypocrisy? Hatred? Smart people are still people.

yes and in any operation like this for every intelligent person leading and making decisions there is always 20 drone workers actually making things happen

of course they are, and I think I tripped over my own thoughts earlier when I said that they would solve the worlds' problems, easily. You're totally right in that there's no reason anyone should assume or think that.

What I should've said is that it's not a given that reaching a population of 10 billion would signal the decline of humanity. I personally think if we had 3 billion more smart people, it would be an improvement.

Intelligent people can and will act as "drone workers". Not every smart person isn't a crazy-haired madman.

>Western countries spend huge amounts of money fighting diseases like malaria in Africa
>Infant mortality rate in Africa plummets
>This doesn't solve any of Africa's problems
>Just creates more Africans
>Now we have to figure out what to do with them
I'm not an antinatalist myself, but this pronatalism-at-all-costs attitude the West has been running with is starting to look really dumb.

>Yeah, they argue until they come to a reasonable compromise that most people can kind of agree with, and then they implement it.
You clearly do not know many smart people.

I'm involved in a number of effective altruism projects and the amount of shilling for Against Malaria Foundation is fucking astounding. Utilitarians are so obsessed with their concept of measurable suffering that they really can't see the bigger picture.

It's just kind of a hard sell given the way people think right now.
>hey maybe we shouldn't try and prevent disease in Africa because then we'll have a bunch of Africans and they won't be able to sustain civilization anyways
would be met with accusations of racism and you'd probably never be able to work in that field again. How would you even sell the "big picture" to these people?

sure they can but they will never like it or find it as satisfying as being the decision maker
with intelligence comes ego its only natural
but the world only needs so many decision makers
to deny someone of their full capability breeds resentment

>Health, good looks, intelligence

I know a lot of people like that and guess what, they are mediocre in terms of character and way of looking at the world and any artistic or philosophical accomplishments. Not to sound like I've just watched Gatacca, but it's true, most genius is born out of personal struggle, either with mental illness, physical illnesses, or just bad material conditions. You only need to look at your average manlets, most of them are overachievers who feel the need to compensate for their short height by making something of themselves

I'd have to disagree with you there. How many high IQ people do you think there are at companies like Google and Amazon who spend 8 hours a day making advertising widgets or logistical bullshit and still enjoy their lives? And besides that point, I'm a big believer in the automation revolution, so if you buy into that, many of the menial tasks involved in implementation of ideas will be done by machines.

A genuine goddess

Not him, but I'd probably frame it more as helping them build a world that's worth living in. Redirect money to building roads, fighting corruption, facilitating trade, etc.

So you're saying that by increasing the average IQ, but simultaneously increasing the average health and beauty, and therefore quality of life, we would have fewer geniuses? Maybe, but it seems like genius is so rare it would be hard to make that argument.

I believe there are already organizations doing just that, no? I think it would be hard to convince people to shift funds away from the immediate relief that preventing Malaria offers to the long term benefits of developing infrastructure. But I don't really know all that much about humanitarian efforts.

It looks like she's not wearing anything

>It gets more nuanced as suffering typically begets change through perseverance though it's not always a good change
Even then if people had the option of having all the benefits without the phenomenal experience of pain, they'd opt for that every time.
This, procreation is immoral, you alt-right larping psychopaths.

*[s4s]

Can you prove them wrong?

People make this world shit, not the other way around.

...

Lets be honest here. We're not leaving this rock and it's only gonna get worse here, over population and resource exhaustion is not stopping any time soon. That's if we don't get hit by another meteorite first.
If you wanna enjoy raising kids go ahead, but don't think it's gonna make anyone a favor, other than yourself. There's no real moral duty to reproduce just biological. And there's already plenty of us.

Just give them porn, videogames and contraception. First two are only semi-jokes

Who is this Us? There's plenty of Chinese people, African people etc. But there sure as hell isn't a lot of Europeans for example, and those are the ones that really count

>its immoral to let new players join this game
>no I won't quit playing cause I like it, and don't you dare cancel my account that's also immoral!

>whats my morality based on? huh? what does that even mean?

Did you have a point to make, or?

>making children is a duty

>be a horrible fucking nig of a person
>selfish, narcissistic, have a fuckload of hereditary diseases
>don't want a kid
>have one anyway because it's my duty
>they have to live on constant meds or they die
>beat the everloving shit out of them and traumatize them for life
>don't give them a proper education
>they grow up to also be a horrible person, end up committing suicide age 25
>tfw the only reason I had the kid was because it was my duty

some people just aren't meant to be parents, I'd argue it's your "duty" only to recognize if you'd make a decent parent, and then abstaining from shitting out kids if you realize you wouldn't

" Much worse is he who says that it were good not to be born, but when once one is born to pass quickly through the gates of Hades. For if he truly believes this, why does he not depart from life? It would be easy for him to do so once he were firmly convinced. If he speaks only in jest, his words are foolishness as those who hear him do not believe. " - Epicurus

So no?

>Oh no, sometimes there are extremely bad life situations, therefore only the upper classes should have children

Not only the upper classes you fucking 'tard, only people who actually fully want children and are ready for the responsibility of having them and taking care of them for 18 years instead of just shitting them out because they know it's "what they're supposed to do", being miserable and raising the child horribly as a result.

Not him but if that's your takeaway you must be reading at a 3rd grade level

How does that statement connect to their implied hedonism?

And when does this magic moment occur, when you think that you're at a point that you'd make a good parent? You think people just wake up one day and know it? Protip - no one will ever be a perfect parent, nor will your children ever live in a perfect environment, even if you had multiple children it's not a guarantee that you'd be a better parent each time you had a kid, as there is always the element of clashing personalities. You are naive

For someone who goes on Veeky Forums you can't read very well can you

This is a pretty shitty time to be alive. No meaning, no struggle, everything is in decline.

It really isn't. In times of overpopulation such as these it's a crime. Sure, western countries birth fewer and fewer children but as long as the population growth ratio is still 1.x we are contributing to the problem. Of course, less developed countries are the real culprits and their overflow of young men should not be accomodated by other nations.

>Is there anything that can make the blood boil quicker than hearing someone say this?
The fact that Julius "I'm a special aristocratic snowflake" Evola is probably the most famous writer from my country after Dante makes me pretty mad, I'll admit.

I'm married to my twin sister

Hey, I as well just read that other thread.

The point he's making is pretty obvious. If you are truly convinced that life is worth than non-existence then why haven't you killed yourself yet? Or is this just an excuse to hide from responsibility, commitment, chance of failure, etc.

*life is worse than
Fucking mobile

>If you are truly convinced that life is worth than non-existence
What does this even mean?
>then why haven't you killed yourself yet?
Because assigning negative value to birth is 100% logically independent of the question whether to kill oneself.

>Because assigning negative value to birth is 100% logically independent of the question whether to kill oneself.

>World is overpopulated
>Better kill myself to help with that

>Life isn't worth living
>Might as well kill myself

I think you're literally too fucking dumb to have this conversation with.

Both decisions have the same effect, do they not? You end your bloodline.

Creating new people, by having babies, is so much a part of human life that it is rarely thought even to require a justification. Indeed, most people do not even think about whether they should or should not make a baby. They just make one. In other words, procreation is usually the consequence of sex rather than the result of a decision to bring people into existence. Those who do indeed decide to have a child might do so for any number of reasons, but among these reasons cannot be the interests of the potential child. One can never have a child for that child’s sake.

Imagine being this fucking retarded and self-centered. You create a human life to “continue your bloodline.”

Imagine being so cucked and low T as to be afraid of imposing yourself on the world.

List the benefits of “imposing yourself on the world.”

not him but just imagine being fucking retarded enough to think the only way to "impose yourself" is to shit out babies

Not the guy you're arguing with but I'm pretty sure that neither the bloodline thing nor overpopulation are meaniungful to this conversation at all.

A newborn childs crying is terrifying, it's scared, how can you possibly comprehend the shock leaving the safety of the womb for this cold shithole world

>mom gives birth
>baby cries
>"shit shove it back in"
>doctor and nurses get together to shove this thing back up her snatch and seal it with duct tape

i kekd at this image im sorry

For first worlders it's the best. Don't be ungrateful fucks, you live in fucking pure luxury compared to people even 200 years ago.

It's the best time to be alive if you're a hedonist.

Shut up, you silly hedonist. We live in trying times, spiritually empty, outmanned, with nothing to do but watch everything we love fall apart.

Why would people living in luxury want to spoil it by having children?

Modern luxuries isn't hedonism, you twats. Lightbulbs and proper plumbing and cars and airplanes and these various things aren't just for pleasure, they have incredibly practical benefits that you take for granted.

Notice, of all these “reasons” given to have a child, none consider the life of the child. None consider your responsibility for all suffering inflicted on that child over their life.

tbqh
if you have a kid your life should be devoted to them

People living in luxury are the best candidates for having children, because that means your children will be raised in the healthiest way possible.

They have equally incredible disadvantages, so what's your point there? The reason we keep these infrastructures around is our laziness. They grant us pleasure for very little work, instead devouring natural resources, cultural hegemony, traditions, (genetic) health and our capacity to live life in a meaningful way. Their only advantage is pleasure and this is an advantgae only to hedonists like you.

>it's an anti-anti-natalist thread
real nibba hours