/HMG/: Haruki Murakami General

This is typical with Asian authors, boils down to the lack of creativity in their cultures.

It differs A LOT from perfection, my friend. I didn'd find a damn thing worth mentioning positively about the book. The characters are cliché and badly built, the pace is awful, either too slow or too rushed, it has its ankward sexual moments like every Murakami work. The characters seem to do what they do for no reason, just for the lulz, displaying some kind of false complexity that I cannot elude. Not a goos read by any means. I'd like to read what you have to say.

Ah, an amateur sinologist! Please share your elucidating insights in this thread, good sir.

So you didn't understand it then. That's ok, start with a book like The Great Gatsby or The Stranger, those are usually used in high-school english classes in order to teach teens how to read

Jesus Christ Reddit is that way >>>>

>No other contemporary artist or writer is as perceptive as Murakami is, he's at least 50 years ahead of everyone else.
Robert Anton Wilson has covered every theme you've mentioned so far, and he's done it in a MUCH more insightful, emotional, sexy, and hilarious way than Murikami since the fucking 70s.

Plebbit is that way, pseud

Wrong, and wrong.

An, an amateur slopephile. You want to know the difference between me and you? I've actually lived over there and know what I'm talking about. Asians are not creative and this fact is reflected enormously in creative enterprises like literature. Don't let the low-t anime-loving weirdo 16 year olds make you think otherwise.

Hear, hear my friend! Please share some more insights into the Oriental character. Do you have a degree in Asian Studies, perchance?

Fuck no. Do as the other poster advised and go back to red¥it, anime boy.

That guy is just being an asshole. I do personally think NW is pretty well-constructed, though. The book is simply about how routinary and repetitive life is, and about the persistence of loss in our lives.

Just look at the main characters, who usually relate to each other in groups of three:
Watanabe - Naoko - Watanabe's An-Heroed Friend
Watanabe - Naoko - Reiko
Watanabe - Nagasawa - Nagasawa's GF
Watanabe - Naoko - Midori

Watanabe's friend (Kizuki?) kills himself, and so does Nagasawa's GF; eventually, Naoko kills herself too, and we're led to believe that now Watanabe is gonma carry the weight she once carried, with Midori assuming the role he himself had in his relationship with Naoko.

Lastly, there's some cute commentary on the connections we build with media (Norwegian Wood is what triggers Watanabe's memories). That's particularly interesting because Western pop music and products were rampant in Japanese universities back in the 60's, so I'd like to believe all the name-dropping was intentional. This is by far the book that mentions Western stuff the most along with Kafka on the Shore.

A pity, a pity! I thought I had found another Orientalist such as myself! I used to abode over there as well, but I couldn't stand their savage behavior and strange pictorial language. Now I reside back in the colonies, where I can enjoy my creature comforts. Hum-hum!

First off, not an argument.
Second, trying to pass garbage as something more complex beyond what it really is stating that one would require extensive knoledge of sinology in order to understand/appreciate the work (which you actually don't because Norwegian Wood is not a good book, even if you try to state otherwise using the sinology thing.) No, you might require some knowledge of said field along basic understanding of Japanese themes/culture in order to understand some actual good and complex books, like "Kokoro" or "The Tale of Genji". Not the case with NW.

Not a good book, not a good book indeed! Fascinating argument. Please share more, where have you obtained such an advanced and patrician level of taste? What preparatory school did you attend? You must be the highlight of the cocktail party.

The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle, Hardboiled Wonderland & The End of the World, Kafka on the Shore and Underground do require some knowledge of Japanese culture in order to be fully appreciated. It is not central to NW, but it is for other books.

Also, OP is just false-flagging.

>characters are cliché and badly built
Wrong
>the pace is awful, either too slow or too rushed
Wrong
>it has its akward sexual moments like every Murakami work
Wrong
>The characters seem to do what they do for no reason, just for the lulz, displaying some kind of false complexity that I cannot elude
Wrong
>Not a good read by any means
Wrong

5/5, you've won a prize! Please come up to the main desk in order to claim it.

This weirdo even speaks like an anime character. See, when you find whites who become obsessed with east Asian cultures and defend them to this diehard extent, it's always someone who is desirous of an identity. White identity is such a taboo thing to identify with no matter what, so people will grasp for new identities regardless by being an emo or a punk etc., but there's something extra strange about the people who find that substitute identity in Asianness. It seems based in infantilism. And not to knock it too hard, I think there is a comparative innocence to it, people who want a return to childhood or something.

Ah, are you another White Identitarian? Nice to meet you, my brother. Have you heard the latest Richard Spencer talk? Very enlightening indeed. Good day, and don't forget to hail Trump! Haha, Kek!

>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Not an argument, you baiting fuckface.

because china and japan are like exotic fantasy dream worlds. For someone who is used to culture a,b,c their whole life, the same reason people like playing fantasy games and stuff, to a get a different vision of reality, to explore a new world:

a place where all the people are different from what they are used to, a different culture too. Escape the bad things they don't like about their home culture. Its like visiting an alien planet, but on earth, there are many different cultural, japanese is one of them, and has some cool things about it: ninjas, samurai, sushi, art and architecture style, some traditional philosophy and life and world view, a e s t h e t i c s, weird game shows, weird cartoons, maybe more autists per sq yard, loyal and obedient and quiet and pretty women?

>unironically defending murakami
>ironically defending murakami to bait anons
can't decide which one is worse, but op you're kind of a faggot

Not a bad post. I like a lot of Japanese things but I also hate a lot of their cultural output too. I think a lot of the reason is rooted in the exotic/fantastical element with an important point being that that characters and narrative are generally always concerned with society. Murakami's books are pretty much the epitome of that. I'm not American but it's why I like a lot of American writers too, only you literally can't get away from American culture so it lacks the exotic-ness that Nipponese shit has. It's also why I totally understand why people like fantasy novels as per Jameson's point about sci-fi representing culture/society in a disassociated way.

This is tangential but I was trying to figure out last night why I think Attack on Titan (which I was recommended by a friend) is shite. I figured it's because it doesn't have anything to say about the real world. It's imaginative but lacks layers. Generally speaking, it's a wish-fulfilment, ultra-violent anime for people who take no interest in society but do like to attach themselves to characters. Some people will actively love it for that reason but I don't get it.

>Some people will actively love it for that reason but I don't get it...it's a wish-fulfilment

Yea, much of that stuff is about that: the real world being far from ideal, so instead of spending much time being bummed out about the real unideal world, to spend your time happy in a fake ideal world

The only guy in the thread has his point (albeit condescending) about Asian culture, because it has produced different works. I would say that Asian books tend to be rooted more in themes of spirituality, religion, Asian morals and traditions(ie. filial piety, family, societal needs) and geographical regions situated in Asia, while our Eastern counterparts are more 'free' due to an earlier emphasis on the celebration of Arts and culture due to their bolstered success in securing basic needs above the rest of the world, and they tend to focus more on more individualistic morals/philosophy and Eastern backdrops (eg. Jane Austen) which you may find more applicable. My two cents.

That aside, I'll recommend IQ84. It was my personal Favourite, which really captured me, very odd since I've never read a book over 400 pages, not say over a thousand. It has almost every single Murakami theme inside. However, like other Murakami books, dialogues can get very repeated. I didn't like his other books as much, most were 3/5 at best

I can read Japanese and I am more than halfway through his latest novel "Killing Commendatore". Let me know if you cats want spoilers.

Isn’t there a longer version of this, where he says that Murakami “in my country he is no person”, and “in my country he is called stupid-kamie”. I remember that but can’t find the post anymore.

I'm trying to read Norwegian Wood again after giving up some time ago. I'm starting from where I stopped (Naoko's letter).

>IQ84
your diary desu

I'm sorry, were you trying to have a thread about me? What's with all the pictures of this weird nip fella?

I just finished reading Kafka on the Shore, picked it up because I needed a break from the stuff I usually read before my head exploded.

Liked the surrealism, and the description of books/the library. It was strangely relaxing to read as well. Bit different to what I usually read so I probably liked it more because it was a nice change.

However, those cringey sex scenes are just fucking stupid and add nothing of use to the book. I've heard you get them in every book of his too which is a shame. I liked it enough that I'll probably read some more of his stuff in the future when I need something fast and light to relax a bit. They seem to be the epitome of 'comfy' which everyone goes on about, which is a good thing every now and then.

ddd > hbw > wubc > wsc > nw > kots > iq84 >sotbwots > ad > ss

didn't read colourless

No spoilers, but I'm interested. Is it any good?

Surprised you rank ad so low, I thought it was beautifully formed. And ddd above hbw(top of my ranking). Other than that I tend to split the short, straight realist works from the longer magical realist (or whatever you want to call them, I'm no lit student) works, and don't really try to judge them against each other.

I recently said before that at its worst it's just the Murakami memes pushed to flagrant levels. At its best it can be as absorbing as anything he's written. You'll still be sucked in but it is certainly one of his weakest efforts. I think I'm discovering that there isn't enough physical movement.

Are the sex scenes as passionless in Japanese as they are in English?

Picked up norwegian wood randomly from a bookshelf when I was backpacking. First novel I ever read and it really stuck. Just bought hear the wind sing, pinball 1973 and colorless, cant wait

Rilke anticipated the postmodern insight that there is no personality, there are just these various intersecting fields: that personality is socially constructed, genetically constructed, linguistically constructed, constructed by upbringing. Where the postmoderns go wrong is in positing a nullity behind all that. It’s not a nullity, it’s something raw and frightening and bottomless. It’s what Murakami goes looking for in the well in The Wind-up Bird Chronicle. To ignore it is to deny your humanity.

Yeah, it is really long and stretched out. Still enjoyed it though

Why does Murakami include ultra weird sexual encounters in all his books?

How are they weird? I've never understood the criticism of him including sex scenes, wouldn't it be even stranger if there was no sex in his books?

All the sex in Killing Commendatore is the opposite. It's super passionate. And cringey obviously.

In a general sense reading Murakami in Japanese feels basically the same as English. I won't read him in English again obviously but you're not really missing anything in translation. Despite pretty big differences between the languages.

There is one character in Commendatore who has a very strange way of speaking in Japanese, it will be interesting to see how it is handled in English. I will definitely flip through the English version when it drops to see.

>wouldn't it be even stranger if there was no sex in his books?
h-haha y-yeah

It could be handled more maturely. Tasteful sex scenes generally don't give the reader the play by play. In his latest a woman's uterus is described as a hungry animal.

I dont see how they're not handled maturely. Sounds like a cool metaphor.

Not sure if trolling...

Theyre just sex scenes, I fail to see how they're any different than Houellebecq's or any other authors

I have nothing against sex in fiction, there's just no reason for it to be a play by play that the author is clearly rubbing his dick too. So cringey.

What's wrong with play by play? Sounds like you have a personal problem.

Finished Hard-Boiled Wonderland and the End of the World last night. Least Favourite Murakami so far.

Too bad, it's his masterpiece. What else have you read by him? Read his trilogy of the rat if you haven't already.

you are the weirdo. Sex happens in the world. Writers (sometimes) write about the world. Writers describe things. He describes sex. You dont like the way he describes sex. You. You. You. You dont like the way he describes sex. This has nothing to do with him.

what didnt you like about it?

If I want the play by play ill watch porn or fuck a girl. Why do Murakami fanboys and girls always defend the sex. It's easily the cringiest and also easiest of his memes to change withut losing anything in his work.

Lol OK man.

warosu.org/lit/thread/S5362637#p5362637

Why would you criticize the sex? Do you dislike Houellebecqs sex scenes? DH Lawrence's?

>You dont like the way he describes sex. You. You. You.
No, he is not able to write cringe-free sex scene.

Cringe from your perspective. They are not cringe from my perspective. Wow, fascinating argument. You better start analyzing sentence by sentence one of his sex scenes if you actually want to get anywhere.

Haven't read either author, but if they write sex like Murakami then yes, I would criticize.

How would you write a sex scene?

WUBC = KOTS > HBW > DDD = NW > WSC > SOBWOTS > BWSL > CTT > AD > SS

didn't read iq84

what is wrong with cringe sex scene? Do you not think cringey sex scenes happen in the world?

how many sex scenes have been written in history non cringely? How many more are needed? How often are cringey sex scenes written? How often does cringey sex happen in the world?

Have to agree with this guy. I like Murakami but his sex scenes are mostly really unnecessary and adds nothing to the story.

It's not about what cringe sex scenes happen in real life, we're talking about why we don't like Haruki Murakami' sex descriptions. While some adds on to the story (eg. iQ84), others are just not needed and downright stupid, like when Kafka fucked Miss Saeki and raped Sakura for no fucking reason, unless it was meant to be shoehorned into the "Opedius" prophecy. There were many other ways to portray this but no, he just had to write about sex that feels more of an obligation in his writing than of any value.

Stop moving the goalpost and being so assblasted.

>adds nothing to the story.
its not about 'adding to the story', the sex scenes are a part of the story, the characters lives and actions are the story, including sex, including cringey sex.

im not moving the goalpost, there is no goalposts. And I am not assblasted (I really dislike that cringey term used by you, it doesnt add anything to you failed attempt at making any meaningful or worthy point) I have never read a Murakami book, but that doesn't stop me from understanding

>It's not about what cringe sex scenes happen in real life,
>we're talking about why we don't like Haruki Murakami' sex descriptions.

Character fucked someone.... for no reason, you say? Or just the rape was for no reason? Are you sure it was for no reason? Do people rape people in the world? Do people rape people for no reason in the world? Was there any signs this character had pent up sexual frustration or something? Any other times in the book this character talks or thinks about sex or wants sex?

Okay, that's certainly agreeable. Murakami has a tendency to constantly repeat the characters' habits and 'quirky' characters, that's also really annoying. But that's besides the point.

It's not the "sex" that triggers me, but the fact that Murakami makes it so over-exaggerated and can stretch it for a couple of pages for no reason. I feel like he always wants to write a main theme for his book, but the sex scenes are just there for his own satisfaction, and barely adds anything with the description, yet he tries very hard to tie it to the main theme for some semblence of relevance.

I don't understand this, you've never read a Murakami book, so why are you so tenancious in defending him? (I don't mean this in a condescending way or anything, just curious)

Why do you keep talking about real life stuff? We're discussing about Murakami's style in describing sex specifially, not criticising sex IRL.

To answer your questions about Murakami, yes he does describe sexual hints throughout. Taking Kafka and IQ84 as examples:

In Kafka, he makes several references to Kafka's male genital, and the sex scenes are supposedly related to his "Opeidus" prophecy, in which the Sister part wasn't even elaborated on later.

In IQ84, it is even more apparent, especially when the male character mentions about how shapely and beautiful and nice the mysterious girl's breasts looks like in her outfit every 15 pages or so. And no, there's no theme attached to this one, so it makes it glaringly more obvious.

thank you so much, user, lol

>how would you write a sex scene

For me tact, allusion and subtlety would all be appreciated. So that's how I'd try to write one. The act itself is almost never necessary to depict.

>I feel like he always wants to write a main theme for his book, but the sex scenes are just there for his own satisfaction, and barely adds anything with the description, yet he tries very hard to tie it to the main theme for some semblence of relevance.

This is what you think. This is what you feel.

>can stretch for a couple of pages.

Out of his often over 400-500 page books a couple of pages are nothing.

>Makes it so over exaggerated

I just think you dont get it. Its going over your head, his style, his sense of humor, his sense of purpose, his understanding of people, the world, sex, cringey sex, awkward people, his characters.

Its fine for you to not like something, or be allergic to something. There are people that dont like reading at all. You dont like his sex scenes, so what. He has awkward young, weird bizarre characters. They have awkward, young, weird, bizarre sex scenes.

I think its impressive and interesting, fun and funny, he can create humor, akwardness, cringe, with sex scenes, and explore those potentials of his characters, and the potential thoughts potentially reflected by some weird awkward people in the world, in relation to the weird awkward thing that is sex.

>I don't understand this, you've never read a Murakami book, so why are you so tenancious in defending him?
Because I have read some quotes, some excerpts, am familiar with his style and topics and themes by proxy if even the smallest bit, naturally respect and admire him as a successful artist, writer, an imaginative, fun, creative, explorative, various, moody, one at that.

Further, the angles being approached to diss his sex scenes simply irked me. To assume that it is a fault with him and not your understanding, of novels, of characters, of his work, of that work in particular. To assume that your opinion matters, and to witness your mode of arguing and thinking, is just very easy to argue against.

I am sure there are lot of sentences in the book you can say 'these can be taken out and the story wouldn't be the worse for it', you seem to imply his books might be better without the sex scenes, or just that he wrote them wrong?

Never read any of his books but once when I was searching for a collection Franz Kafka's stories I got results for his book "Kafka on the Shore" instead.

rather than making shit thread why don't you actually read the books and see for yourself how flawed his writing is? I believe that's actually what makes Murakami enjoyable.

>Why do you keep talking about real life stuff? We're discussing about Murakami's style in describing sex specifially, not criticising sex IRL.

Because Novels draw from real life, and reflect the world in ways. Now it seems like you are trolly baiting, though I have already considered the strong chance you are in the 18-22 age range. Give me some examples of him describing sex badly, poorly, awkwardly.

The point I was trying to make discussing real life... how do you not get this, if you can't get what I have been saying, then not there there was a reason to trust your conviction beforehand, but you are losing points to consider it: If there are awkward people, weird people, in the world, and sex can be a weird awkward thing, and he writers characters that could be weird and awkward, why is it so shocking that his sex scene between weird awkward characters is weird and awkward, or bad style?

You are basically sounding like you are saying:

Why doesnt he write his sex scenes like the millions of erotica fiction on reddit and in 50 shades of gray... or why doesnt he write his sex scenes more tastefully, and sensitive, and respectful, and prude, and clean, and majestic, and romantic, and pure like I would.

>In Kafka, he makes several references to Kafka's male genital, and the sex scenes are supposedly related to his "Opeidus" prophecy, in which the Sister part wasn't even elaborated on later.

Ok so what do you have problem with? Post some quotes and examples of specific what you have a problem with? Do you think the sex scenes should be cut out of the book, or could they be in if rewritten, if you were his editor?

>In IQ84, it is even more apparent, especially when the male character mentions about how shapely and beautiful and nice the mysterious girl's breasts looks like in her outfit every 15 pages or so. And no, there's no theme attached to this one, so it makes it glaringly more obvious.

ok so maybe Murakami gets horny every once and a while, maybe he remembers that young men get horny every once and a while and so writes the character appropriately, and maybe he thinks some of his audience might appreciate thinking about breasts every 15 pages or so.

dont you wish we could ask him what he was thinking, I wish you could discuss with him all your disappointments of his with him and see how he would respond.

Norwegian Wood, Kafka on the Shore, 1Q84, The Wind Up Bird Chronicle, Colourless Tsukuru, What I talk about, Hear the Wind Sing and Pinball, 1973. I'm by no means put off, but I just didn't gel with it as well as the others.

>Because I have read some quotes, some excerpts, am familiar with his style and topics and themes by proxy if even the smallest bit, naturally respect and admire him as a successful artist, writer, an imaginative, fun, creative, explorative, various, moody, one at that.

Oh be quiet you twat.

>murakami posting
go back to r/books you faggots

thread hidden. don't post until your 18th birthday please.

>Why doesnt he write his sex scenes like the millions of erotica fiction on reddit and in 50 shades of gray...

Except he does sometimes. In 1Q84 can we please not forget a sexy female assassin and her friend get fucked by older dudes the author's fucking age.

In Killing Commendatore two people just have completely wild sex where he describes the positions and everything. The MC has sex with a much a younger woman and she begs to be choked with a belt during it.

So he does. But you wouldn't know that ****because you've never fucking read him but you're still spewing all this defensive bullshit****.

>In IQ84, it is even more apparent, especially when the male character mentions about how shapely and beautiful and nice the mysterious girl's breasts looks like in her outfit every 15 pages or so. And no, there's no theme attached to this one, so it makes it glaringly more obvious.

In Killing Commendatore there is a middle school girl who talks about her breasts with the 30s male MC. The MC also narrates his thoughts about breasts. Pretty gross.

Clearly I like Murakami. I am reading a 1,000 page novel not in my first language written by him.

But the sex thing has always been a thorn in my side. Like on a certain level I get it. Everyone has these thoughts and shit, but still.

How do you know what Reddit is like, user?

I prefer the other Murakami desu

go back

>Except he does sometimes. In 1Q84 can we please not forget a sexy female assassin and her friend get fucked by older dudes the author's fucking age.
damn, this is as far as I have gotten into your reply so far, but see this right here, I dont know if I would have ever read a Murakami book, but now I really, really, want to read 1Q84

>Pretty gross
>But the sex thing has always been a thorn in my side. Like on a certain level I get it. Everyone has these thoughts and shit, but still.

Oh...so I was talking to a 19 year old asexual girl the whole time, now it makes sense...

.

If you had ever had sex, you wouldn't consider his scenes weird.

Where do I begin with Murakami?

Nope. Only virginal dudes have this overly gung ho attitude about it.

Just read Hard Boiled and Wind Up.

>homeric
>neo-mythic
>post-jungian

This isn't even good bait.

This.

Norwegian Wood is his worst novel BY FAR. Hard-Boiled Wonderland and the End of the World; After the Quake; Kafka on the Shore; South of the Border, West of the Sun; After Dark; and his others are all much better.

>Hard-Boiled is his best.