The Iliad

Come forth Veeky Forumsizens. Let us discuss all the archetypical tropes Homerus introduced us to in his work.

He truly did lay out the ground work for all modern stories.

It's next on my list to read after the Bible. I'm pretty ashamed of myself for never having read the biggest works of Western literature.

What's goin on family

Do we need to ignore all the archetypes in Gilgamesh, as it is the older book?

did Homer know if it?

Very likely, in some form. Just compare Gilgamesh-Enkidu to Achilles-Patroclus. The parallels are clear from a mile away. Gilgamesh after Enkidu's death has also been compared to the Odyssey (fantastic adventures, traveling underground, return home).

Should I read the Iliad first or the Odyssey? I heard the Odyssey is the sequel to the Iliad.

What about the Vedas and the Bhagavad Gita?

That is true read the Illiad first.

Hmm... I'll just wait for someone else to give a bigger and better answer that is not only 'yeah bro, start with the Iliad lmao'.

Thanks anyway...

Dunno, never read them. Vedas don't actually have a narrative IIRC. Mahabharata (Bhagavad Gita is only one small section of it) has been compared to Iliad (they are both about lengthy wars) and Ramajana to Odyssey (both are about travels). But I haven't read any Indian lit at all, so I don't know if there's any deeper connection or similarity.

>hey guis should I read book or book:sequel first
>start with book first for obvious reasons
>hmmmm that answer isn't needlessly complicated enough for me

Read the Iliad.

Nah, he's right. He should start with Theogony and the Golden Ass

read the illy faggot

How about you read "how not to act like a pompous ass" instead? Looks like you need that more than the Illiad.

Have you seen Akkadian tablets? The problem is there are so few scholars, and even the ones working will tell you that there translations are more like 'inspired by' stories than what we think of as translation, ie the versions we see are heavily inspired by the culture of the scholars (that culture inc. Greek epic ofc)...

I've heard that the vedas should have been brought quite far into europe - but i don't know about the Mahabharata.

How do i survive Hesiod - it's so fucking hard to keep reading.

skim read hesiod, fucking tedious

Ok, because i've been reading him like a true autist - figuring out everything he says and every relation between the gods. As you can imagine i'm going crazy.

Let's settle this once and for all gents, were Achilles and Patroclus fucking, or were they not?

Where they real people or not

>where
What did he mean by this?

You know what i meant, don't be a grammartard.

They were not

Plato thinks they are.

>mfw everyone thinks Achilles is the hero of the Iliad even though its clearly Hektor

Achilles is undeniably the protagonist, it is his story. Hector is based, but even he has some bad moments like promising to desecrate the body of Patroclus, or when he runs from Achilles like a coward.

This.
>Sing, goddess, the anger of Peleus’ son Achilleus

can I say I've "read" the Iliad if I go with Pope? I heard it's more his unique spin on it than anything.

The gods determine who the hero is, not your bitch ass.

Only bitch ass here is Achilles my friend.

Say that to his face and you can end up just like Hector.

The only reason Achilles beat Hektor is because he went crying to his mummy.

I have read Andrew George's very literal translation, not a retelling (no scholar would take a retelling seriously). From what I've seen, Anglos and Germans are the most influential in mesopotamian studies. I find it extremely unlikely that a few potential greek scholars managed to reshape how we view the text, and I can't see why they would do that anyway. To make Homer look less original?

Lol, I haven't read Hesiod, I was just shitposting.

>Having such plain two dimensional views of "who's the protagonist who's the antagonist"

How's English 101 treating you little fella?