Is there any writer who's like weak, beta, insecure, and bizarre to interact with, but also creates great works...

I hate and love Woody Allen at the same time. I wish you could take out his mega-beta self-insert characters and put in a more middle of the road dude, but maybe it would lose the humor without the extreme self-deprecation.

He has created so many great movies. Stardust Memories is kino but so are like 10 others that he has made.

Whitman was a definite Chad. Same with Voltaire. And Goethe.

Lord Byron and DFA too

Actually the best writers are total chads. Shakespeare was a chad. Dante was a chad. Goethe was possibly the single biggest chad of his century. Being a chad is part of why they're great--they embraced life to its absolute fullest potential and then translated their unshakable convictions, courage, and mastery of society to art. They gifted their chadness to humanity

Lower tier elite writers (e.g. Gogol, Pessoa, Dickinson) are often socially incompetent. But invulnerable, unapproachable, and objectively great authors with sublime and godlike skill, those guys are always Chads

Nah, he's a major loser by his own admission. He spent all of his adolescence and early adulthood crying about the fact that girls wouldn't dance with him, he's remarkably ugly, most of his adult life was spent working shit jobs that he hated, he was a drug addict, he has zero fashion sense whatsoever. His early books (before his almost accidental fame and success) almost all feature sexually frustrated protagonists struggling to endure life and achieve. Again, read his biography of Lovecraft and you will see how deeply he relates to the life of a loser

fuck. this is my greatest worry.

>Shakespeare
Jury's out, know too little about him
>Dante
Biggest waifu fag in history
>Goethe
Literally a beta-orbiter cuck

Joyce wasn't a Chad, I think, but fuck if this portrait isn't inspiring

Yeah Elliot Rodger is great

they make all kinds of claims and i can smell their stench here. i think you’d better own up to the tranny-pedo den you all spawned

#
#
>Byron
>Voltaire

>Great

>Goethe
lmao

>Shakespeare
not a real person honey
>Dante
a gigantic whiny cuck faggot and you have no idea what a chad is you pencil neck
>Goethe
lol no not even a little bit
>being a psychopathic, violent and sadistic beautiful strong, tall, classically handsome rich alpha male makes you a better write
no, not in the least

...

An Argument

All writers are self-important narcissists.

Yeats was a loser. Just like me.

His wife did what he told her to do, which includes shitting in front of him while he masturbated.

Nevetheless, putting Joyce in the same list as Dante, Shakespeare and Goethe is something only a stupid Anglo would do.

By the way, putting Shakespeare and Goethe in the same list as Dante is also something only a stupid Anglo would do.

It's Homer, Virgil, and Dante. The rest can eat their dust.

You don't know anything about Dante. Beatrice is a symbol. He had a wife and kids (who wrote commentaries on the Commedia after he died), probably had affairs with a few other women, and once occupied the highest electoral position in Florence, which was, at that time, one of the centers of the world. He was also a soldier and a man of the world in every sense of it. He was also friends with Cangrande della Scala.

Fun fact: there is no evidence linking Dante to the Portinari family and he doesn't even mention it in the Commedia, despite mentioning hundreds upon hundreds of families from his time. All the stuff about Beatrice Portinari comes from Boccaccio, who never met Dante.

His kids says it was an allegory too. Virgil represents philosophy - human knowledge - that leads Dante to get away from the selva oscura and into purgation of his sins. Beatrice (from beata - beatified by God) represents theology - sacred knowledge - and leads Dante to the way of Heaven.

Voltaire was great. Funny that you didn't add Whitman to the list. I bet you think Thomas Pynchon is better than Juan Rulfo.

>Is there any writer who's like weak, beta, insecure, and bizarre to interact with, but also creates great works.
David Foster Wallace was like that

I hate Woody Allen physically, I dislike that kind of man. I can hardly bear to talk to him. He has the Chaplin disease. That particular combination of arrogance and timidity sets my teeth on edge. He is arrogant. Like all people with timid personalities, his arrogance is unlimited. Anybody who speaks quietly and shrivels up in company is unbelievably arrogant. He acts shy, but he’s not. He’s scared. He hates himself, and he loves himself, a very tense situation. It’s people like me who have to carry on and pretend to be modest. To me, it’s the most embarrassing thing in the world—a man who presents himself at his worst to get laughs, in order to free himself from his hang-ups. Everything he does on the screen is therapeutic.

So not only did Dante have a waifu but she was a 2D waifu too baka

What do you even mean?

Smh desu senpai

I’ve read this before. Orson Welles supposedly said this or something?

Found it:

vulture.com/2013/06/orson-welles-lunch-with-henry-jaglom.html

What a fantastic quote.

all writers and Veeky Forums readers are fertilizer for the machine Christ and only exist to feed the ultimate life form

Writers are often of that nature.

The appearance is given because some successful writers (considered looking back, not necesarily successful or relevant n their time) don't fit what is expected from the according to social standards. Whatever the society decides, the opposite is "weak, beta, insecure". An easy and radical example can be found comparing medieval and contemprary thought on sexuality: while formerly to be highly sexual was considered weak (as in the person cannot control his own desires) now to not engage with some frequency in sex is considered weak (as in this person is unable to get a partner and thus undesirable).

Now how is to happen in a writer? Culture elements are elided from those who grow in it. We don't notice how particular our culture is, we only see the oddities in foreign cultures.

A foreigner might recognize the quirks and oddities of our society, but is unable to describe them in full extent due to he not being fully aware of the - he is a foreigner after all.

Some people, those who are alienated from society, have enough experience with their culture, yet because of their alienation they can see how what seems natural needs not to be and is thus aware of all that is invisible for the non-alienated person - you could say this alienated man is a foreigner to is own culture.

Some writers, become critics of their culture, making works that would be impossible for others who society principles are in general normal and all there is. Looking at the great books of history, the authors are often alienated somehow from their culture, thus perceived as weak and worthless - though time might have changed our opinion of them since.

But even if this might be the nature of some of authors, the reciprocal is not true. Most alienated people do not become great authors, nor great at anything.

>while formerly to be highly sexual was considered weak (as in the person cannot control his own desires) now to not engage with some frequency in sex is considered weak (as in this person is unable to get a partner and thus undesirable).

Lmao I'm sure this is what some dorky mgtow monks wrote but Charlemagne and his bros would laugh you out of the court between their wench fucking sessions

>yeah dude bro awww fuck yeah fu k those sluts awe fuck cucks mmmm yeah puss yeah muhhhhhb dickkkk mmmm fuk yeah mmmm yeah muh dik muh dikkk mmmmm luv bein in charge n shiit mmmm muh dikkk haha wench bring me more muhhhh dikkk mmmmm
oh boy

Look I'm not saying the notion isn't correct, more its naive to believe it was actually the prevailing attitude and not restricted to ecclesiastic circles

All of them.

>It’s people like me who have to carry on and pretend to be modest.
Haha, Welles was such a boss. Goddamn. I don’t agree with Allen willfully presenting himself at his worst, but w/e.

He's daying Dannyboy went full 3DPD and wrote a VN about his waifu

>Italians

Thomas Pynchon is as beta as it gets

Came here to post this

>restricted to ecclesiastic circles
I think you're dishonestly trying to get your foot in the door and suggest that it was common (as in average, as in the mean) for nobility to openly cheat on their spouses especially the lower nobility. Chastity and loyalty are old Western values, the ancients were not all wife swapping degenerates and if you went into a Macedonian farmers house and fucked his wife, he and his friends would beat you to death.

Goethe?

Saul Kripke.

youtu.be/KE9m6Bu0RGI

Fitzgerald, literally a cuck, so was Joyce, come to think of it, for all his bluster, Hemminngway was a beta too, pretty much all modernist writers are cucks.

Kafka, Proust, R. Crumb, uh... I don't think that author personality became a big thing in books until relatively recently

>i think you’d better own up to the tranny-pedo den you all spawned
Veeky Forums spawned /r9k/?

Pynchon obviously

The funny part is he loves giving lectures and doesn't publish his shit.

I don't know why, but Crumb REALLY gets to me sometimes. I think about him and Charles a lot.

wow what are some crumb kino to read? I just know the documentary where women wanted nothing to do w him.

I have Mystic Funnies 1-3, as well as Whiteman, saved on my mega: mega.nz/#F!0YcVkCRI!kRkgi5aRokJ9BMhE33aHLg

But you can find it all on libgen

He's saying he's a smelly, festering little man.

how does mccarthy come off like this?

i can sort of see bukowski, who remained a virgin until he was almost 30 (not as big of a deal in these spheres i know), but i wouldn't consider him "weak" or "insecure". to me, he comes across as this sort of weird alpha omega male. like he was such a loser that he stopped giving a fuck. manual labor and heavy alcohol/drug use gave him a certain toughness i guess.

Check out his literary stuff, like the Book of Genesis, Kafka, Psychopathia Sexualis, Boswell's London Journal, the Philip K Dick stuff, Nausea, etcetera. Then there's the stuff about his early days, like Dumb and my personal favorite, Walkin the Streets. I'd say that stuff is much better than the other autobiography stuff he does. All the stuff about old musicians is usually pretty great too. Patton, Jelly Roll Morton's Voodoo Curse, etc. The social commentary stuff is okay. The wacky stuff is alright. The sexual fantasy stuff is pretty vapid and embarrassing.