How did Nietzsche inspire the Nazis when he very explicitly expresses a hatred for Wagnerian music (preferring Bizet)...

How did Nietzsche inspire the Nazis when he very explicitly expresses a hatred for Wagnerian music (preferring Bizet), Germans and the anti-Semites of his time, and Zarathustra's official animals are both eagle (pride) AND serpent (cunning), among saying many other things that simply didn't fit at all with their ideology?

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It's not important.

The Nazis basically pick and chose random bits of other philosophies and just ignored anything those writers said that went against their ideology. It should be noted that Hitler later banned Nietzsche in Nazi Germany even though he was greatly inspired by he ubermensch concept.

His sister edited out all that stuff and changed it to be more nationalist and antisemitic and published it and since those were the versions the nazis read they adopted Nietzsche. A common myth is that the nazis distorted Nietzsche when it was his sister decades earlier.

so ubermensch idea was applied by or inspired Hitler? Wonderful

The absolute Untermensch!

they’re parasites, maggots that infest the wounds of dying cultures: Germany, America, Greece, Spain etc.

The worst kind of thieves, who couldn’t ever produce anything remotely approximating literature or art. Breker and Speer and Schmitt are their great champions. Go on /pol/, look for their art threads, they have them once every few days. Gaze upon pretentious, haughty faggotry like you’ve never seen. They put neo-liberal ass-licking modern/post-modern art enthusiasts to shame.

Astoundingly stupid, always a step behind the world they’re trying to conquer and ever willing to make a mockery of their own ancestors endowment for them. Discraceful is probably too flacid; defilers gives them some kind of spiritual status, as servitors of a dark power, and when they can they embrace that gleefully (despite its being totally antithetical to their order-mongering pathology); perhaps just apes is the term to use? they aped Nietzsche, aped Kant, aped Machiavelli, aped Rome, aped Sparta, aped Socialism and conservatism. I forget who said it, but they’re incapable of producing anything that’s not an abortion the moment its conceived. Spengler despised Hitler and Nietzsche would’ve been run out of the country, or likely murdered, had he lived to see his pathetic countrymen gather into a hive mind like so many maggots in a cow’s lacerated asshole.

They basically spend their days fucking with Jews and Blacks, the former a far more cowardly race than they, but without any of the atrocities underneath their belts that the Germanics have to answer for when judgement is passed on us all; the latter, a simpleton race of feminine dirt licking fruit pickers, basically harmless, and yet that’s their number one rallying cry “LYNCH NIGGERS.” What a bore, what a bunch of effette lemurs. Whiny, banshees unleashed from the blood soaked soil of the Black Forest, the holy site of their blood imbibing, wholly debauched, homosexual, beastly ancestors; a place they took great care to level, just like all the other heritage sites of the IE peoples during their campaign against humanity.

I've read some books and works on Breker and his art. Also some interview. The guy was literally hounded by interviewers and they were always eager to talk with him about anything except his art. To me he seems like a guy that is naive in the political sense, I really believe him when he says he always wanted to do art first and that he never got into the whole political aspect of things. I like Brekers work, and the appreciation of the beauty of the human body without shame is rather a Greek concept, than a nationalsocialist one. And I think Breker followed that line. Basically, there is no national socialist art in the strict sense and it is a mish mash of fanfic on power fantasies. The same thing with fascist Italy where it could be argued that at least futurism captured some of the essence of the fascist vision.

tl;dr

Breker could sculpt, and he is shunned by >muh art enthusiast just because he lived in a certain time.

As for the topic, if you can read German read Alfred Bäumler - Nietzsche der Philosoph und Politiker, he was the main guy who interpreted Nietzsche the NS way. Also, Lou Salome who is basically wrong about everything ever had one good point when she wrote that Nietzsche has the fate of "all great aphorists", their work is being used in a fragmentary fashion by anyone in the world to prove specific points that never had anything to do with the original body of work of the author. That is especially easy with Nietzsche since the nature of his work is sometimes contradictory, as his thoughts were evolving... Basically, Nietzsche was misinterpreted and blatantly falsified to suit Nazi purposes, but no one can disagree on the aristocratic and masculine nature of his philosophy which in some sense is resonating with some parts of the NS ideology.

Also the whole contra Wagnerian things Nietzsche did should be seen as his reaction against Socrates. At least in similar light. I dont remember where but Nietzsche said/wrote that "I and Socrates are so close that we cannot help but fight". A little context on the whole antisocratic sentiment can be gained through Langes Geschichte des Materialismus as well. which was one of N. favorite books.

I'm really spamming but fuck me... people tend to forget that Stalin was trying to hire Breker shortly after the war and that he refused saying something along the lines of that one dictatorship was enough for him.

good post. always nice to see the eternal /pol/ack roasted like this.

>implying Carl Schmitt was not an absolute genius
He wasn't even a real nazi, he was just a shrewd opportunist with highly flexible morality.

>The Germans basically pick and chose random bits of other philosophies and just ignored anything those writers said that went against their ideology.
FTFY

>The Nazis basically pick and chose random bits of other philosophies and just ignored anything those writers said that went against their ideology.
That's what people do, people gonna people.
Seriously, psychological research claims this.

The entire field of philosophy is built on "pick and chose random bits of other philosophies and just ignored anything those writers said that went against their ideology", this was a horrible argument to make.

>His sister edited out all that stuff and changed it to be more nationalist and antisemitic
Yeah no, there's a quiet agreement among Nietzsche scholars that his sisters influence on was A LOT (if any) more minimal than previously thought.

>when he very explicitly expresses a hatred for Wagnerian music (preferring Bizet),
His relationship with Wagner's music is more complicated than that.

>talking shit about Arno Breker
>regarded as one of the greatest sculptors of the time
Look, I hate /pol/ as much as the next guy, but calm down champ

Your ignorance is astounding.

Source? Because it was a long time ago Montinari and Colli when published the complete works edition and solved this controversy.

I had thought that it was just some additions to Will to Power, which she arranged herself, nothing else. Which would mean that the Nazis didn't actually read Nietzsche, they probably just read the small selection that she provided the movement.

Because Nietzsche is his writings is a provocateur above all else and who encourages creative misreadings. You don't have to agree that Carmen is better than Parsifal or even to believe that Nietzsche meant this sincerely (which I doubt) to appreciate and be changed by Nietzsche.

Nietzsche is clearly pushing for a kind of German neo-pagan revival, while challenging Catholicism to try impossibly to retain its power it had in the middle ages, while complementing Jewish culture for basically being a respectable enemy to his Roman values. Christianity is less respectable but still semitic so many times where he's critiquing Christianity he's calling it Jewish/Semitic, which is the way it would be perceived by a pagan Roman but is very easy to misread these sections as anti-semitic when they're clearly intended at denigrating Christianity.

I can understand perceiving a false anti-semitism in Nietzsche but I can't see much that is Nationalistic or pro-German. If the Nazis had tried genuinely to integrate non-Germans into the Third Reich Euro-polis then maybe, just maybe could they be decent readers of Nietzsche.

You might find better, more nuanced readers of Nietzsche among the 'Conservative Revolution' circles of Weimar Germany.

>>>/reddit/

Holub destroys Kaufmann (who proliferated the idea that his sister inserted stuff in The Antichrist and Ecce Homo) in pic related.

>Holub
I haven't read pic related but the antisemitic notions are blatantly false even when you read his body of work. I would rather say there is praise for the jewish genius, not to talk about the letters where he is having all "antisemites shot" and his disgust with german antisemitism in general. I'll try to get this book to further my knowledge about that though

have you read the Wagner-Nietzsche correspondences?

You sound like the type of 'intellectual' who after 'owning' Nazi's on the Internet lets his daughter get fucked by an negro just because the negro has a job.

*whips a horse*

*stops your all too human ass*

- belief in natural aristocracy
- anti-egalitarianism
- quasi-social Darwinism
- moral nihilism
- opposition to Christian morality (see Heinrich Heine's prophetic quote about Kantians, Fichteans, and philosophers of nature)
- opposition to democracy, socialism, anarchism, and universal suffrage
- biological essentialism about races, nationalities, classes, genders, etc., and the association of cultural decadence with some sort of biological degregation or dysgenics
- glorification of strong men like Napoleon, Julius Caesar, and Cesare Borgia and a preference for regimes like Imperial Rome, the oligarchies of ancient Greece, the Venetian Republic, etc. (his favorite existing state was Tsarist Russia)
- etc., etc., etc.

Even his opposition to antisemitism wasn't of the humanist variety. He just thought antisemites were losers and admired the Jews' will-to-power. There's a ton of stuff if you're being intellectually honest. The idea that someone can read "On the Greek State" and not see any parallels between Nietzsche's thought and Nazism suggests willful blindness.

Talk of "appropriation" is silly. It's easy to see why socialist, anarchist, even feminist thinkers might draw inspiration from certain aspects of Nietzsche's thought despite their disagreement with his political views (such as they were). But when it comes to Nazis or fascists, people want to play dumb and randomly adopt this standard where you're somehow not allowed to take inspiration from a philosopher unless you agree with him on literally 100% of the issues. It's really juvenile.

>he said
Right after he read a text where the poster called blacks
>a simpleton race of feminine dirt licking fruit pickers
Truly educated and carefully phrased observation

...

It's just that you've poorly read him if you take any of those things out of context of the whole body of his work and think they can be applied to Nazism. You are philosophically misunderstanding him. Or, you are misunderstanding the Nazis. They weren't just aristocratic biological essentialist imperialists.

Add to that the concept of master morality vs. slave morality, ressentiment contrasted with appeals for political equality/social reform as well as Christian/egalitarian morality, his belief that a woman's role is subordinate and association of increased rights and privileges with cultural decline, the notion that suffering is ennobling and necessary for cultural vitalism, that "slavery" (in some sense) is necessary, and that only the "great" truly matter and can justify existence, etc.

Nietzsche was a kind of aristrocratic individualist first and foremost and even apolitical in a certain sense (there are a ton of "anti-" political statements in his writing, but not a lot of "pro-"), but a lot of people in denial about 2/3rds of what the man actually wrote.

>He replied after reading s text calling Jews
>a far more cowardly race.
Can you even finish the texts you read before shit posting. Or go to /pol

Explain nazism then

>It's just that you've poorly read him if you take any of those things out of context of the whole body of his work and think they can be applied to Nazism.

Lol. You're not saying anything. These are his actual beliefs. Many of these aspects of his thought were hugely influential on certain elements of the radical right in Germany (see the Conservative Revolutionary movement for example) and you can follow this trajectory all the way to Hitler and the Nazis albeit with a certain degree of vulgarization.

>They weren't just aristocratic biological essentialist imperialists.

Yeah, and? Again, you're implying some weird standard where you can only draw a link between the Nazis and Nietzsche's if they're totally in lock step, which is absurd and wouldn't be applied to any of the left-wing thinkers who've been influenced by him despite their massive disagreements. There are certain things that amount to ironic or semi-ironic rhetorical flourishes, but not others. The only reasons you see comments like yours is because there's this weird territorialism about Nietzsche on the left, as well as an almost unbelievable amount of denial about things he says unambiguously in plain terms throughout all his writings. I've even heard Nietzsche described as a "feminist".

>Arno Breker
literally capeshit of sculpting

Like most present day lit students, they didnt actually read his work, just misinterpreted and cherry picked his famous bits and pretended to have a comprehensive knowledge of his philosophy.

It's sad but I'm inclined to disregard anyone "citing" Nietzsche because of how often he is unwittingly namedropped nowadays. He's become a go-to for "cool" philosophy.

>You're not saying anything. These are his actual beliefs.
His actual beliefs also include harsh criticism of a number of core elements the Nazis stood for. It's "easy to see" why they drew inspiration from him, if you assume that their reading of him was partial and engagement with his work limited. That much I can agree on.

You also seem to think this is a left vs. right debate. It's not. I am not arguing that Nietzsche fits better into the "left." I am arguing that he does not fit into Nazism. He essentially called the nationalistic Germans a lower breed of Europe. The general sentiment of uniting Europe under one flag and the despising of weakness in the world he shared, but who should unite and who is weak he had a very different picture of.

People develop intellectually. Nietzsche took the redpill

Doesn't matter if he looks down on the monkey fucking his daughter, he still stood on the wrong side of history

So he's racist but he's saying instead of being racist you should... (?)

is that a tarot card? what is it?

It was not his ignorance that struck me but the permutations in the language that he chose - likely inspired by the blindness of his anger. It is an excellent case study in showing the value of not letting your emotion drive the intellectual content of your work.

Nietzsche was intentionally paradoxical and inconsistent. And it's much easier to read into (and take away) the greater theme of muh will to power over others, muh reversed morality, etc than all of the particulars. It helped that Nietzsche was German too.

>How did Nietzsche inspire the Nazis?
>He very explicitly expresses a hatred for Wagnerian music.
Though I will admit a fairly strong sense of ignorance on the matter of specifics of Nietzsche's work, I may be able to shed light on the argument. The two sections that I greentexted are not necessarily mutually exclusive. Regardless of whether or not you align with the moral values of a writer you may still benefit from the foundation of his philosophy, though you may come to a disparate conclusion as to how the principle tenets of his philosophy are best manifested in the physical realm.

Looks awesome

>because the negro has a job.
This is you
youtube.com/watch?v=rUTnNKhF-EU

>His actual beliefs also include harsh criticism of a number of core elements the Nazis stood for.

We've already went over this. Like twice. So what? The point is that he influenced the Nazis and there are commonalities between their beliefs, not that their ideology completely encompasses everything he believed. This is an absurd standard that you're arbitrarily setting and if applied consistently would make nearly everyone influenced by anyone guilty of appropriation. It should be self-evident that there can be a legitimate trajectory of influence between two or more people who have massive disagreements.

Your argument might make sense if the nexus of Nietzsche's philosophy were somehow his opposition to nationalism/antisemitism and there was simply no way to glean any insight from his writing without adopting this particular political stance, but obviously, this is utter nonsense.

>anti-egalitarianism
Wasn't one of his best friends a feminist?

>So what?
It should matter whether you get a philosopher's philosophy right or not, I think. The US understood him better than the Nazis, and look who won WWII.

you don't have retarded friends?

How did Hinduism? Nazis took whatever they wanted with the goal of adding legitimacy and "age" to their organization

>people gonna people
This isn't a quirky or interesting way of writing you just sound like a stupid manchild.

Yes but in relation to OP's question the Nazis weren't hardcore Nietzsche devotees in the way the Soviets and East Germans were to Marx. They didn't have to agree with everything Nietzsche said.

the actual answer is that his sister was an avowed nationalist and anti-semite, and released heavily edited versions of his manuscripts