Why are so many prominent philosophers misogynistic...

citation needed

if people are a product of their culture why don't women agree that they are inferior if they are in such a "misogynistic culture"? Isn't it beneficial if they fill the role they were groomed for in said "misogynistic culture"?

>As a femanon I...

gfy

Men and women are not identical, but they're of equal value

I'm not talking in terms of value.

Equal in what sense? There are biological and neurological differences between the sexes but I would assert they are "equal", yes.

youtube.com/watch?v=JUxY_5-N81Q

i'll let my dad argue that for me

Define equality
How do you put value on someone?
From where do we derive objective human rights?

Most criticisms of women are criticisms of the social content of women. You can be exemplary, you can be better than "woman" as she has been constructed, which is essentially according to the accidental "model" of the Jeune Fille (which can be sexed male or female). Ie, the classic walking foot patrol of the corporatized big Other.

In the terms that are claimed by the aforementioned philosophers. Intellectual and otherwise

It's better a man dies in the field of battle than a woman does.

word

the same way you're browsing Veeky Forums without getting pissed constantly! You'll get to that point with philosophy as well, just stick to it and it'll be second nature to write the misogyny off for what you know it to be.. misunderstanding, environment, sometimes anger etc.

It's because you don't understand the background.

Read the OT.

>yer acktually wROGN xd
Peak of intellectualism c. 2017

I never said that men and women are the same, but it's false that women fundamentally lack ambition and the desire to make something of their life, create new things or work at the boundaries of what is possible and/or knowable. None of that requires having a "male" personality

but only because a woman sometimes counts as two!

>i have no idea how to refute this intellectual argument, i'll just meme and hope it sticks
such a cute boy, you're going places!

The phrase is "make do" you illiterate fuck

You just disproved your point.

Absolutely.

you asked for a citation about women behind happier in roles that fit their psychology, and i gave you some clip spreading insight into that, there's a lot more to the conversation and you can look at the full speech for more

if we're talking about women in STEM, women in leadership positions... these things are rare and not fitting to be pushed onto the general public, if anything it damages girls because they feel forced to try to fit something that ISN'T them at all

>bases his argument on two (2) professions
>claims scandinavia has done more than any other region to equalize the sexes
I don't even disagree with him on this topic but he is a hack, people like him because he serves as their echo, not because they learn anything meaningful--hence his exposure after the UT incident.

>gender fitting roles
Like what? Lay some examples and explain how women arent more happy. That's a shameless over simplification and generalizing statement.

And many people struggle to attract others but many arent based off of finding a career. Are you just basing this information off your own experience? And would you prefer a girl who stays at home, makes no money to a girl who pursues a successful career, affords you nice things and experiences the outside?

This post was written by a man who has never made a girl cum and probably never even held a conversation longer then 10 minutes.

>claims scandinavia has done more than any other region to equalize the sexes
without qualifying/explaining*
Forgot to clarify

there's an entire class of his on youtube that delves even deeper into this topic, with numinous sources, historical events, and insights, if you're interested check it out:
youtube.com/watch?v=I8Xc2_FtpHI

have your opinion about JP as a public intellectual, you cannot deny his knowledge and insight to how humans behave by watching his classes

It's only beneficial if the role they are forced into is in line with their desires. As you can see from the ensuing women's rights movements many women desired for more than to be housewives and to rear children and risked their lives and social standing to fight for equality. People will be affected by a culture differently when they are the one's who are benefiting from it the most vs being harmed the most by it.

They can still have the same value on their own

pretty girl id like to touch her hair and kiss her on the lips

For explanation of gender roles please read my book.

aren't more happy in what? most women would rather be helping others than themselves, this is the key difference; where a man works to better himself and his family, a women works to try to better all those close to her--specifically her children

western society is trying to force women into positions they are not suited for psychologically... STEM, leadership, aggressive social behavior, so forth... this is destructive to the female psyche-- there's a reason misery is at an all time high for girls (various polls taken over the years)

this isn't saying women shouldn't have a career, not at all-- they should have the right one, fitting for them, instead of feeling like they're lesser because they didn't go into a field everyone is trying to push unto them

i'm a girl.

>Like what? Lay some examples and explain how women arent more happy.
google it, there are studies which show women's happiness decreasing since the 70s with the rise of female employment and sexual equality.

Bump goonan

Dont come to 4cha to discuss this.
Its riddled with anti prog4essives who desire the exact opposite of What the 20th century has worked towards.

If they could replace electricity just to remove woman's rights they would. If they could remove modern medicine so they could lie and say white men are superior to all, they would.

And i see the argument bouncing back and forth in this thread over "who would you save; a man or a woman?"
The answer is both.

confusing post... you're saying progressivism is a positive to the human condition? i've come to the conclusion that it's destructive, and while great strides have been made to improve the quality of life for all, since the late 00s it has gone too far and we need to fight against it

i have an open mind though, and would love to hear more of your thoughts on the subject

but why would you include STEM in that argument?

Women do work great in a cooperative environment where men have trouble, and vice versa for competitive environments. I really hate that we're supposed to ignore that now instead of playing to our strengths. Obviously isn't going to apply to everyone but you know what I mean.

This!!!

> where a man works to better himself and his family
> a women works to try to better all those close to her--specifically her children

Literally the exact same thing you dingus.

> western society is trying to force women into positions they are not suited for psychologically... STEM, leadership, aggressive social behavior, so forth... this is destructive to the female psyche-- there's a reason misery is at an all time high for girls (various polls taken over the years)

Lmao you know nothing about psychology, please stop. If you're scared of leadership or math don't project those traits onto every woman to deflect blame for your own shortcomings.

philosophers tend to be lonely incels. They don't like women because they never fuck

i know what you mean, but i disagree... women to excel men in some areas of the workforce, even in positions that they're not happiest doing as i've observed

however, the question has to be raised: is it worth it? should we sell-out our girls happiness to satisfy a more constructive work-force? should we delay or damage a family unit because women are rushing to meet the demand? i'm not sure

when put into a nutshell it's the same thing, it's different in expression and execution, you know this-- stop trying to nitpick

now you're resorting to personal attacks and mocking my posts instead of contributing to the conversation in a constructive way, move on

Shut your hole, plant.

Sorry autocorrect :^)

1 girl isnt the same as any other girl.

You cant claim you know all about women and you cant say you are an expert because clearly you know nothing.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand_in_the_Schoolhouse_Door
This was a fight against odds for the right to study.
And another instance wjere a black girl had to stand outside a lecture room, take notes in a hall and eventually graduate despite bigoted people sabotaging her efforts managed to succeed and live her life.

Girls arent getting "pushed" into STEM, i dont know where youre reading that or why you feel like that is a bad thing. But people are going to study what calls to them, and gender segregation in careers is only hindering to social cohesion, and prevents any sort of unity and progress just like racial segregation does.

Also "various polls throughout he years" isnt pinning down the cause of misery regardless of how dubious this sounds . I wouldnt rule out whatever bogus poll you're taking as as fake but it is probably speaking to women upset about the rise of racism in america right after weve had a black president, or the crashing housing makret, unaffordable school tuition and unaffordable healthcare. Not "sociaty wants me to study stem".

And the women who are in stem and are upset, it would be because its a male dominated field and its filled with immature brats who make derogatory comments to women, think being sexist is funny, make inappropriate jokes around women and generally treat women like outcasts in the workplace, you know, shit that has been identified and discussed before mainstream media wih actual women talking about this issue before.

Because they lived over a hundred fucking years ago

10/10 would read again

Ok
Social equality is good
Downfall of racism and the rise of freedom for people who arent just white.
Im sure you think feminism means female supremacy but i assure you it doesnt and youve been tricked. Feminism is women equality and the respect of women.

Weve removed racial segregation, but cops are still shooting unarmed teenagers and arresting students with planted evidence. We still have far to go before any mending can come to the black and Hispanic community.

I thought we were smart enough to know we cant blame our problems on immigrants and poor people. But clearly America and Europe doesnt want to look up at the bankers and the business owners and the lobbyists who throttle rights, healthcare and the working class.

What could possibly be the problem of trying to make a society where a black man can walk down a street at night without being shot or charged with possession of a drug that is legal in a dozen states.

i've never claimed this! this isn't projection, this is from my studies and the many lectures i've watch that lead me to this conclusion

women needed a lot of rights fought for in the past, i have absolutely no doubt of that-- we're now largely equal, and the push from progressives can be boiled down to trying to replace estrogen with testosterone... you're using a very old activist event to make a point-- in what way shape or form does that have relevance today?

pushed probably isn't the best word to describe this, but the point is that they're being advertised to and influenced to go in pursuit of careers and positions that don't suit them... be it psychologically, biology-- however you want to coin it

it's hard trying to explain all this when from my perspective, you haven't put any previous effort to read into psychology of the human species

women in STEM drop out in droves, check the statistics... and women are defensive in nature, they were only there in the first place to try to make a difference, or prove a point... when they fail, instead of admitting they simply weren't suited to the challenge, they'll cite superficial reasons to gain status among peers

a lot of my thoughts and opinions come from Jordan Peterson and the various books he's cited, where you get you information may be of value if we continue this

>as ive observed
Ok so you're basing this whole arguement off of anecdotal perspective. You didnt even try to bring up talking to a woman and listening to her perspective. Youve generalised and judged women off of some visual assessment.

Not only are you just plainly lying at this point you're making yourself look bad.

women have equality, they have respect, i'm honestly shocked you think otherwise... can you please cite where i can read up on this information for a educated source?

i'm not educated in racial issues so i'm not going to comment

this post might help flesh that out:
additionally, i grew up in a stable family with 2 sisters and a tough as nails mother... i know a lot about the female condition naturally

i'm honestly open to conversation, i don't care if i'm wrong-- i'd like some resources to help me revise my position though, not much to ask

er this post:

> when put into a nutshell it's the same thing, it's different in expression and execution, you know this-- stop trying to nitpick

Pick any two people regardless of gender and look at how they express and execute bettering themselves and their family. It's always going to be different.

> now you're resorting to personal attacks and mocking my posts instead of contributing to the conversation in a constructive way, move on

Ya when the conversation is just you spouting unsubstantiated and ignorant bullshit there's not much room for a constructive conversation. You're just simply wrong and lacking in knowledge and experience. Sad.

watch these lectures and read the statistic & books he cites:
youtube.com/watch?v=I8Xc2_FtpHI
youtube.com/watch?v=kYYJlNbV1OM

this is where i'm coming from, if you have another educated point of view to offer me, please do! i promise i will read it with an open mind

Because most women don't want to live like that and those that do are too weak to try to impose that lifestyle on the others. Most western cultures haven't been particularly misogynistic for decades either, almost the opposite in some places.

theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/07/how-women-are-harassed-out-of-science/492521/
This is just in STEM, in an educated environment filled with business minded people. Do you have any idea how much further is continues to spiral any worse for women every where else?
Women need to fight twice as hard to be heard over a white man. And a black man needs to shout 4 times as hard to be heard or seen.
And a black woman is purposely hidden and statistically ignored by police, politicians and universities. They are suffering the most in society and its coming to the point where they are systematically threatened by the country they live in.

americanprogress.org/issues/criminal-justice/news/2016/03/16/133438/6-things-you-should-know-about-women-of-color-and-the-criminal-justice-system/

And this is very pertinent for you to read
forbes.com/sites/janetwburns/2017/12/27/black-women-are-besieged-on-social-media-and-white-apathy-damns-us-all/

>i'd like more resources to help me revise my position
Go speak to more women.

jordan peterson pls

...

If you base your entire mind around 2 youtube videos, or rather even a handful of men saying the same thing youve fucked yourself over.

Speak to real women, speak to real people. Listen to BOTH SIDES OF AN ARGUMENT. And stop feeding yourself answers you want to hear.

I hate this question because it is used as a way to "get off the hook" with treating men and women different in everything/most things or be bias using mental heuristics.
Men and women are not "exactly" the same. No, but they are of equal potential and thus they should be taken with the same serious in all they intend to pursue.
>Implying most philosophers simply gave "constructive criticism" about women and didn't essentialize them as useless or less useful in most things without explicit proof.

i'm going to finish up dinner and then read all of them, i'll let you know my thoughts when i'm done

not 2 videos, i meant the entire class 26 lectures in total

i have friends, i'm active on twitter and facebook... i've listen to many sides of the argument but i typically only take the word of those who are educated and adults

OH and Camille Paglia is my fucking girl
youtube.com/watch?v=HxoN4wTrnvs

>but it's false that women fundamentally lack ambition and the desire to make something of their life, create new things or work at the boundaries of what is possible and/or knowable.

Women have exactly the same ambitions and desires as men, the problem is that they stop doing any of those things when they are 30 to have children; meanwhile men just keep working and don't care about children.

I have read this but really, are you sure their aren't confounding variables? I'm not even trying to pretend I know everything here, but consider for the moment that women are more expressive these days and like to express their feelings than in the past(where it was often frowned upon in favor of being more passive).
Not only this but they still face bias in many of the pursuits they attempt for being women(by men and other women), that can be very stressful so you can't eliminate that as a cause completely either.

I'm not forcing women to do anything btw, now women have more choices of what they can do with their lives instead of just one thing. This is becoming more of a thing for men too.

/thread

An educated man who has lived his life being told women are inferior, and that he is free to do whatever he wishes to them because he is wealthy and powerful is somehow more important, more bearable to hear then the 16 year old girl he molested who didnt even have the chance to complete high school, or even consent to him touching her?

You've basically followed the idea that those in power, those that do the oppressing are more trustworthy then the people that are oppressed asking for help, being betrayed by the system they put theor faith on.

What about the children suffering from molesting priests, youre going to believe the child molester? And the women who Trump physically grabbed without permission, are they lesser? Does it all come down to whoever has the more expensive education and better schooling gets the benefit of the doubt?

Is this satire? Are you guys concern trolling this young woman?

You're over simplifying it.
There are women who continue to study with children and desire a career. There are 50 year old women in university.

Youve jumped from making a simplification to an offensive generalizing statement, about both genders!
You dont have the answers, you made half an effort to think and gave up before you started so you went with the "opinion" that Veeky Forums follows.

Im not trolling, youre just lazy and dont want to challenge any of the ideas youve wanted to believe, so it makes you get upset. The feeling you are getting is really making you think

You think this would be obvious, the time they lived in women had a distinct role, in rare cases were they more than just that

You're right, you're dumb as fuck.

I think user is just complaining and needs to get over it.
How about she make her own human philosophy if it bothers her so much. OR read Proverbs in the bible or something idk.

>theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/07/how-women-are-harassed-out-of-science/492521/
>In another course, a different lead professor hand-fed ice cream to a graduate student.

Wow... what sexist pigs. How tragic.

That's the stupidest argument I've ever heard. Black people in the 50s would not agree that they are inferior to white people and actively fought against their "role" in society, yet I doubt would you argue that they weren't a product of a racist culture.

> The women we spoke with in that association agreed that conferences, fieldwork, and business travel are the worst. One recalled a male colleague who once said the only reason to go to conferences is to have an affair.

Wow ... what an awful joke that could easily trigger an innocent woman's PTSD. This joke is aggressive and violent. Wow, women today are exactly like blacks back then were in America, except they don't get lynched, but it's almost as bad, definitely. I'd put being a modern white woman in America definitely at about the same level as being a black guy in America in the 1800s.

hint hint: they were a product of a racist culture: see those same black activist women straightening their hair...
You make a good point btw, that user you replied to has no idea what he is talking about, for the longest time "women did just accept it"
It was easier to get them to "just accept it" when they weren't as educated. Easiest, when they couldn't even read or right.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want to be a brilliant writer, or philosopher, you can't have kids.

Or rather, good luck being a good parent and raising normal and healthy children if you sacrifice your time with them to have a career.

>theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/07/how-women-are-harassed-out-of-science/492521/
this is a sensational article of anecdotal accounts, this is toxic because it offers no solution besides "men need to stop being sexist / STEM is too much of a boys club and it keeps women out"... this reads to me as a narrative driven article, spreading a sinister message

here's a much better article that has a similar message, only driven by statistics and facts rather than second-account events:
voxeu.org/article/why-there-arent-more-women-stem-fields

>Women are just as resilient to negative feedback as men when deciding whether to continue in a field of study, but when faced with additional signals such as an association of the field with masculinity, they appear to become more prone to opt out in response to low grades.

it acknowledges that most women who step into stem get bad grades initially, and one reason they step out is because it is a boys club and they feel out of place to try to improve, but it seeks for solutions to that problem so the minority of girls who actually make decision to go into STEM aren't pushed out when their first batch of grades come back below average, it's not because the people in STEM are sexist

i'm not going to read the race stuff, i really don't care... and all of these articles reek of sensationalism which i don't like in these complicated topics

resources please, i'm not going to take a random user word for anything, if you want to challenge my views, do it with the works or words of seasoned intellectuals

>Identifying with your genitals, or any other organs, at all.
This is why you're a whore.

The average woman is better than the average man in intelligence, happiness, mental health, career potential, everything.

Men tend to be outliers; most retards are men and all geniuses are men.

If I were a feminist I'd be pretty happy about this. Women have 'won'. To acknowledge this isn't woman hating, if anything its man-hating; justifying the male rates of incarceration., suicide, early death etc.

>Feminism is women equality and the respect of women.

It was then that I knew this post was bait

Who said writer or philospher,
A Nurse, a business owner, a Teacher or an Artist, or a programmer are career that mothers can become.

And you aren't in the position to know what a good parent is when you're saying it's impossible to have a career and have kids at the same time.
Do you want 1 parent to sit at home with a defeatist attitude saying "I couldn't do it because I had you" over a parent who took night classes and studied for years at a slower pace to get her career going?

You sound like you're just bias towards women trying to live a life beyond 1 aspect. You aren't just a mother and you aren't just a worker.

I don't know what you are trying to say but it sounds either condescending, uneducated or satirical.

>average woman is better than the average man The average woman is better than the average man in intelligence, happiness, mental health, career potential, everything.

selfish, there are quite a few studies conducted that show a better outcome and long-term happiness for children who have a stay-at-home mother

the beauty of women is that they're NOT selfish unless they come from a broken environment that forces them into an unnatural defensive state, so you're projecting your ideas as a man @ women without thinking about the bigger picture

When you call something bait that doesn't mean everything the post was conveying is false. It' what you do when you concede your lack of education of the topic, and that you have nothing to argue other then that you are upset about what was said, and that you want to just cry about it

i'm pretty sure you're posting bait, all of your posts offer no resources or statistics that we can view and see if we reach the same conclusion as yourself... where in the world are you getting your information?!

It's also what you do when you think a post is bait

>there are quite a few studies
Yet none of them have been posted and if they were they wouldn't shore any correlation to whether a mother is a stay-at-home or career driven.

>the beauty of women
don't project your sexist fascist idealism towards an entire gender. If you want to feel powerful by stripping someone of gender who is supposed to be your equal in marriage you're fucked in the head.

here's one i personally read:
gsb.stanford.edu/insights/eric-bettinger-why-stay-home-parents-are-good-older-children

it addresses that women are more likely to resume their careers or otherwise work once a child passes a certain age, and while this doesn't have out-right damaging effects, it can mitigate some really good stuff

there's a lot of other ones, you have access to google as do i, use it!

you seem very angry, i'd refer you to this post:

> And the women who are in stem and are upset, it would be because its a male dominated field and its filled with immature brats who make derogatory comments to women, think being sexist is funny, make inappropriate jokes around women and generally treat women like outcasts in the workplace, you know, shit that has been identified and discussed before mainstream media wih actual women talking about this issue before.

Women should be at the home. Look at how belligerent women become by just doing some 3 years gender studies "degree".