Japanese Society

Neither can I.

>makes weeb thread
>mad when someone jokes about it

You must be fun at parties.

you arent going to understand. you are going to THINK you understand, then spread misinformation and make the entire globe more stupid

for my sake, and many others, give up and play that game user. no japanese needs your stupid ass to lecture to them about improving their education system

>all these assumptions
Admittedly it sounds like OP is starting from some silly stereotypes, but there's no reason to think they wouldn't be interested in genuinely learning something, or to assume they're planning to 'lecture' at anyone.

most people don't understand their birth culture. 90% or higher

foreign cultures? gimme a break

the globe is replete of these kinds of idiots

he even named the most stereotypical shit

hey shithead OP, make another topic like this
>tell me a book so I can learn about the origin of nigger culture. I'd like to learn about "soul" "fried chicken" and "niggers getting shot"

Just ignore the troll.

not a troll. you/op are idiots by the very things you reveal by the things you ask

japan is not "this way or that" because of tradition being intimately a part of their life. and everything else he thinks is just as idiotic

he'd be better off looking at his birth fucking culture and the reasons he is dumb (or 16)

So, I just found this list by searching on Google, it looks quite complete:

walden-family.com/4prim/nippon-list-whole.pdf

Has anyone read and recommend anything there?

I am.

Why is Veeky Forums so full of EOP weeaboos that never lived in Japan yet act like experts on it?

What's EOP? And why don't you quote the one you're referring to already?

"English Only Pleb" = someone who doesn't know Japanese. Other language are ignored in the context of an English discussion about a topic related to Japan and Japanese.

Bump

youtube.com/watch?v=GuUopTPgjOI&ab_channel=GermánCeks

...

speaking of Japanese society and social norms, can anyone give me more on the topic of "face" in Japanese society?
I have a thread on Veeky Forums about it because I remember it was brought up once here.
From what I have seen so far, it's origins are related to nobles in Chinese dynasties of Zhou to prevent major conflicts.
In what was did eastern philosophies impact this concept?

Watch Frozen. It's basically "conceal don't feel"

...

I doubt youll find a book about a bunch of incorrect assumptions you intuited.

Anime is for kids in Japan and Hentai is very very very very very far from mainstream

its only popular with older aged manchildren in the west due to soy based xenoestrogens in the food.

non comprehensive, but the top 5 are, in no particular order:

soseki
tanizaki
kawabata
oe
akutagawa

and then the second tier-
abe
dazai
endo
mishima
inoue

then you got a bunch of people whose legacies aren't totally clear yet or are just aren't as important as the above few-
ibuse
ogai
r. murakami
kirino
yoshimoto
enchi
miyamoto

etc. etc.

it is called political correctness in english

>This board is not for meaningless and unfunny jokes

But a lot of adults read mangas, right?

Anyone have a pdf of Banana Yoshimoto's "Kitchen" in english?

A History of Japan by R. H. P. Mason and J.G. Caiger

if they do, they don't talk about it. it'd be like telling your colleagues your hobby is batman action figures and you play fight using them

Reading a book about a foreign culture is like reading a book on skateboarding. You aren't going to understand it, even if the sentences are 100% correct and logical.

Why would you want to read her? She's a lefty, you know? One of the characters in that book is a 'transgender'.

Guy who lives in Japan and knows a fair amount of Japanese here.

I am not an expert, and I cannot pretend to understand everything, but Japan's population problem is large and complicated, and it goes beyond Akihabara virgins. From my experience there are two main culprits of the population problem.

1. Japan is a modern post-industrial economy. First world countries the world over are experiencing decreased populations for pretty clear economic reasons.

2. The salary man corporate system, which is a noxious cancer to both Japanese economic growth and family life.

Words cannot express how much I loathe the salary man system...

You are right to be skeptical of that stuff. Uninformed trash that lacks perspective.

I've never really understood why this is considered some mystical fascinating Japanese culture. Every culture has honne and tatemae to some degree.

The English have hardcore tatemae, imho.

>Anime is for kids in Japan and Hentai is very very very very very far from mainstream

Incorrect. Well, it's true that most adults don't really sit down and watch anime and the only anime on network TV is kid's stuff, but plenty of adults read manga. It is not uncommon to see even an older man reading Shonen Jump on the train.

Hentai is mainstream enough that every convenience store carries hentai magazines. You can go to any 7/11 and pick up loli porn next to Good Housekeeping lmao.

I would personally ask for some further explanation about this list. Is this really your order in terms of understanding Japanese society? Just your list of favorites?

Although he won't give you insights or answers into it, I personally think Haruki Murakami often offers good portraits of Japanese society and contemporary character. (Passive mild-mannered men, relationship issues, isolation, etc).

But he's absent from your list.

Great post, thanks. How's it like to live in Japan?

youtube.com/watch?v=-gQGZvOO2d8

every european society has tatemae. england/germany have it in every possible public situation but are honest in the family. southern europe is the opposite, they have honor in the family and to the outside orld they lie or tell the truth according to their interest

this is the problem. people that cant figure out their culture but then fetishise something far from home end up stupider than they started, less able to understand themselves becaues they've got 2 artificial dichotomies running through their head instead of only 1.

imagine op absorbs the "traditional isdom" of the salaryman and syncretically combines it ith the "socialist labor theory of modern capital" he probably learned in college.

oh joy. I bet he's going to have something great to tell us after that

It's nice and comfortable and convenient. I like it.

People are people, as kumbaya as that sounds.

> the decadence of modern japanese society (low birthrate, men don't want to have sex, seeking comfort in anime, hentai etc).

This problem is WAY FUCKING OVERRATED in the west. Actually, the West has this problem ten times worse.
Japan has a very high birthrate for their native population. Much higher than whites in any western country. Your numbers are being artificially pumped up by niggers and muslims.
Work participation rates in Japan are also among the world highest.
As for anime, it's being broadcasted at like 3 am at night. Nearly no japanese people watch it. An anime is considered a succes if it sells a few thousand bluray boxes. In a country of over a hundred million people.
Compare that to fucking netflix and how many westeners, especially women, fucking bingewatches that shit, all day, all night.

How important is tradition and culture in the common japanese person?

Overrated? I don't know about that, I read once that their population will shrink to 80 million in a few years and the government sees it as a huge problem, there are small communities dying and they'll have to open their borders to immigrations.

I think there was even a catholic journalist of Sankei who proposed that a system similar to the apartheid be created when the innevitable immigration wave comes to Japan.

ho important is the german landsmoot system in modern anglo/germanic culture?

here, I'll introduce you to hans the truck driver. you can tell he is german because of his funny eyes and cheekbones (be sure to compliment him on his germanic features at least 3 times before moving on.)

ask him about the landsmoot, please

Was it necessary to behave like a jerk?

This is a complicated question. The easiest answer is that it is very essential, and sometimes they're not even aware of it, because it's so entrenched and natural. And I think that's true of culture and society of course. Japanese live their traditions and culture every day. Shinto influences the day in countless little ways for example.

In terms of like active participation traditional arts and such, unfortunately a lot of them are struggling.

you keep asking htings like pic related about my people

its not about tradition. its about compromise of negotiated interests. the tradition happens to generally be the best compromise.

asian societies are about negotiation and compromise. european societies are about ritual combat via legislation.

it is not about tradition. it is about the route of control generally considered acceptable and best for as many people as possible.

I am serious about the landsmoot, just fyi.

you should feel pathetic that I understand the origin of democracy and your culture better than you do

Kek, really nice troll, haven't seen a type like yours around here.

>anyone smarter than me is a troll

あなたは本当日本人ですか?

私はあなたの大きな陰茎を両手で引っ張ります

私はあなたの油性の陰茎をつかみ、ウナギとレスリングしています

...

そうさ。くたばれっや

Bom livro, onde posso baixa-lo ou comprá-lo?

the portuguese sold japanese slaves and stoked underclass revolutions in china and japan simultaneously, then complained about fairness as they got their skin peeled off. if you take anything they say seriously, go fuck yourself

>José Yamashiro
>Yamashiro
>Portuguese
He is Brazilian.

Estante Virtual

You claim not to be a troll, but every post (in english) you made so far can only be interpreted as either trolls or as an angry teenager who knows not about what he talks.

I only post fact. read more history idiot

And which books did you read in order to post all those things? Go on, enlight us plebs with your extensive knowledge

>taiping rebellion is fake
>macao
read about the taiping rebellion you fucking idiot

people like you'd get slapped in our schools until you shut the fuck up

Lol, Google translate?

まあ、今でもそれを疑ってるんだ。
それほどヤンキーっぽい喋り方は、怒ってる日本人のふりをしようとしてるTryhard外人荒らしの行動だと思うよ。

Lol, Google translate?

今でもそれを疑ってるんだ。
そんなヤンキーっぽい喋り方は、怒ってる日本人のふりをしようとしてるTryhard外人荒らしの行動だと思うよ。

Just ignore him, it's some non-Japanese Ken-sama LARPing as an angry Japanese guy because...reasons?

I've seen this troll pattern before, mainly on /int/. He thinks by using really course, rude Japanese he'll sound 'authentic' but it just sounds cringe and tryhard.

Besides that his English is far too fluent, which is the easiest tip off. And sounds condescending but it's true.

アメリカ人基本的ものさえ分からない。luttwak著者は"great power autism"って

well yes, there is the concept of Dramaturgy explained by Erving Goffman with front stage and back stage self developed in all people psycho-socially but I feel like it permeates Japanese culture even more.

seeto clarify, I mean it is take way more seriously in everyday life there.

your impression is based on nothing. you are incorrect

you are confusing 2 factors. the propensity of a society to believe pleasant lies, and the pervasiveness of those lies. they are about as prevalent in northern europe and japan, but europeans are much more likely to believe they are truth, nto lies, leading to your perception that face is more prevalent.

not the case

Well, although almost no one says what they actually believe and think all of the time, of course there are going to be differences in degree. You are not wrong that it is more pervasive in Japan than many other places elsewhere. Japanese people generally try to avoid risk and confrontation at all costs. Independent thinking can also be seen as selfish.

...

The average Japanese person will withhold their true thoughts more than the average American will. That is undeniable.

Thanks for your insight. I agree, most people want to avoid conflict when possible but it seems Japanese tend to want to avoid it at all costs out of convenience( probably their second favorite word). I'm not sure if the same can be said with risks in general, though I guess you being around them for the longest would probably be in a better place to attest to that.
It may even be more than other Asians like the Chinese though could be getting ahead of myself since China is such a big and more diverse country. I just was interested in what may have lead to this greater propensity.
It has Asians in general labeled frequently as "shy" or inexpressive personality wise, but it may be more conscious and deliberate than other people assume.

No one is saying that people in other cultures are frank all or even most of the time, just that Japanese take "face" it near the extreme more often. There is clearly a gender component to it as well from pic related.

That argument aside, I don't understand why some people, especially women, can lie this much just to make people feel good about themselves. I just don't say anything in situations like this because it's just not true and it would be just as mean for me to lie. I just like the picture and move on. That's my "tatemae."

>most people want to avoid conflict when possible but it seems Japanese tend to want to avoid it at all costs out of convenience

I don't think that "convenience" is the reason--I think it goes a little deeper than convenience. I can't really say confidently WHY Japanese people are so risk averse and resistant to change, but they are.

Japanese history is one of conflict and great upheavals. Perhaps partly because of that but I don't know.

The Japanese economy has been stagnant since the 90's partly because of the Japanese aversion to risk. It is something that is sorely needed in the society.

I think this is also a partial if not small aspect of the culture of no relationships and sexlessness that you're seeing now. Getting yourself out there and facing potential rejection is, in simple terms, a kind of risk.

But just a theory, don't quote me on that.

it depends on priorities

as I said before. north asian societies govern by consensus derived from discussion in the case of japan, and proto meritocratic "rational" administration in the case of china. you hide the things that might undermine your calculated basis for future negotiation, hence the formation of strong schelling points

north european societies have ritual combat in the form of landsmoot. you hide the things that might get your head chopped off on the inevitability that ritual combat becomes actual combat on the calculated basis of self interest

different neurology. but europeans hide just as much. they hide different things, for different reasons. and are also more likely to believe lies

For politics I'd recommend William Andrews' "Dissenting Japan."

For "decadence" I'd recommend Anne Allison's "Precarious Japan"

While I'm here, if anyone knows where I can get copies of Kisho Kurokawa's books for local storage that doesn't require me coughing up hundreds of dollars then please hook me up. I've been trying to research the metabolist movement (what gave us the Nakagin Capsule Tower as well as the Neo-Tokyo Plan(s)) and haven't been able to find much, even in Japanese.

>north asian societies govern by consensus derived from discussion in the case of japan

Mmmm, say more?

Societies in the Sino-sphere, including Japan obviously, have a proclivity to defer based purely on age and 'status' rather than ability or insight. True consensus often cannot be reached this way, obviously.

Rather than consensus I'd say blind deference ha.

The Japanese corporate system is clear example of this. In general in a Japanese company an employee is not promoted and given raises based on performance, but solely on how long he has been with the company. The Japanese corporate world has been rocked by scandals in recent years of accounts being fudged and forged at the highest levels out of laziness, incompetence or both--if not overt fraud.

It is almost impossible for lower level employees to make any kind of meaningful suggestions or contributions regarding how things or done or how to proceed in some endeavor.

I wouldn't call it consensus exactly. At least not true consensus.

>This board is not for meaningless and unfunny jokes
You're on the wrong board.

consensus is reached by consensunsus involving nodes of control

in particularly violent societies control is determined by consensus among the most potent of regional chieftans (a leader of soldiers) and share of consensus is alloted based on ability to levy violence. this creates a semi stable situation

this model applies to middle eastern societies. it is still a consensus. consensus, consent, voluntarism do not ONLY apply to european derived democracies

democracy is the practice of allocating nodes of bureaucracy to generalised sections of the populace. no one cares about YOUR opinion, only the aggregate of yor neighbors, even then, it is suspect. you could be tortured to death and no one'd care, hence eternal grumbling about the senate

consensus occurs at the lvel of the legislative, but also state vs fed bureaucracy

east asian societies engage in a consensus derived from deferring to the most highly stable actors in a given arrangemnt. this typicaly happens to be, for japan, military style bureaucracies, and for china, proto-capital institutions and semi-rational bureaucracies based on testing.

NOT "old people hurr durr"

you're not even close to understanding jp corp structure. age based pay revolved around the market price level that is set for revolving management, that happens to be higher for people that have revolved around all levels of management. this occurs for factory floor people as part of "lean management" to reduce oversight.

the price calculation for pay takes place on a calculation basis involving iterated performance data over a period of a decade or longer, rather than year to year performance subject to mass layoffs (america)

if you arent aare, layoffs tnd to reduce productivity because price's model for productivity finds that the root of the number of empoyees accomplishes half or mroe of the productivity. these often do not appear on performance reports due to various management incentives, so as layoffs happen many of the best people leave after being predated upon by parasites

japan uses kaigi type systems to force peoples true colors to surface. unending, relentless tests of honesty so that all of management can see all of the performance of the under-ranks, over and over again. this applies to ideas in addition

you define consensus as some sort of bright and sparkly feeling that makes you feel good. come on. you're an adult, arent you?

japanese don't normally engage foreigners about these issues because they're bull headed and refuse to think bout alternate valuation schemes. think about the things I'm saying. or don't, and prove my bad perceptions about most foreigners correct again for the hundredth time

there are good things about the american system. there are bad things too. becoming ever more apparent every passing year

Our population problem is grossly overstated by the media.

>Societies in the Sino-sphere, including Japan obviously, have a proclivity to defer based purely on age and 'status' rather than ability or insight. True consensus often cannot be reached this way, obviously.
>Rather than consensus I'd say blind deference ha.
Does EVERYONE on Veeky Forums type like a pretentious college freshman asshat?

yes. about all subjects. lit majors that cant do geometry act ike niggers about physics, leftists nig out and think criminals "feeling" respected and chopping off the dicks of little boys is more important than not getting murdered in the street by immigrants

america is an interesting case in highly, highly efficient insanity. hence, I come here

I also like your car board

Japan is one of the world's top consumers of porn.

>you're not even close to understanding jp corp structure.

He says, talking to the guy who works for a Japanese company

>you define consensus as some sort of bright and sparkly feeling that makes you feel good.

Literally where did I say that.

>NOT "old people hurr durr"

Saying that most Japanese companies do not defer to the oldest employees who have been with the company the longest is *objectively* false. The oldest are in charge, regardless of their ability. Fact. Often they are competent and capable because of their experience, and so they provide stability, but they are not promoted based on credentials, so maybe they aren't. They are deferred to in any case.

Really, man. You went from pretending to be Japanese to doing word dumps riddled with spelling errors, no capital letters, tangential points, and dicta/terminology you pulled from your college class to cloak your lack focus and inability to discuss and debate concisely and coherently. Your rebuttal is like buckshot a when it should be a laser or sniper rifle.

That is true, but that wasn't really the point. The point is that those people were saying the porn consumption is like a major reason for the population decline which is bullshit.

Could be. It's still an issue. The aging population may be a bigger issue.

As for religion, I'm currently waiting on numerous books covering Aum Shinrikyo whose authors will almost certainly relate things to the hikikomori phenomenon, but Jason Ananda Josephson's "The Invention of Religion in Japan" seems like a more interesting starter. Seems to reel in just how promiscuous western influence was on Japanese society, predating the Meiji Period.

>leftists nig out and think criminals "feeling" respected and chopping off the dicks of little boys is more important than not getting murdered in the street by immigrants

You alright m8? Drunk? Schizophrenia?

phoneposting on a trilingual keyboard is a hard life user

capital asset management is empty college course terminology? okay bud

should capital risk take place at the level of office, or corporate? hard to say. you might be in a bad office. there are plenty of them, especially ones open to foreigners. your autistic rage isnt an argument though

>laser rifle
prescient

there is no philosophy of traditionalism, but only a schizo-analysis

>shits on people for sounding like uni brats
>uses the word "prescient"

Kek.

literally the top political concern of the left in america rn

suicide bomber's rights is #1 in yurop

>counterargument is comparison to laser rifle
no surprise your countries are on fire

As for religion, I'm currently waiting on numerous books covering Aum Shinrikyo whose authors will almost certainly relate things to the hikikomori phenomenon, but Jason Ananda Josephson's "The Invention of Religion in Japan" seems like a more interesting starter. Seems to reel in just how promiscuous western influence was on Japanese society

Have you considered reading a good translation of the Tale of Genji? Apparently it had a major influence on Japanese culture and history. Every student there learns it in literature class similar to how we all learn Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet, Hamlet, or Othello.
youtube.com/watch?v=SRDbdsz8Qn8&t=4s

>IJapanese history of conflict and social upheaval.

I believe Europe had a very similar thing?
Though I guess it is different since it was never a united nation. The closest was the Greek and Roman empires. The wars were always between what were seen as different nation states/ kingdoms. It was more about beating back greedy assholes from expanding their borders to yours.
Japan was somewhat united under an Emperor(Heian period) then broke twice(rise of the shogunate then sengoku) then united again(for a moment under one shogun, then again under the emperor).

Perhaps a lifetime of risks that resulted in a united country going to pieces kind of makes them weary of the whole thing. So I kind of see what you mean.