Anyone here read this? Is it worth the time?

>I am more someone interested in decay, decline, filth, disease and suffering
>but ew ew I HATE looking at it! /b/ and other extremely tame boards are so disgusting!!

it's not amazing but still interesting

It is what it is yes.
I can't make anything else out of it. Our culture is all about happiness and optimism, but that is not how I experience the world and that reflects my symbolism.
And if you want to know real edge, you should study anthropology.
Yes.
I am disgusted by other things, why is that odd? And there's limits to how much suffering, filth and so on, I can take. I'm really not THAT hardcore or edgy.

You sound like a teen trying to sound mysterious and unconventional, if you are so easily disgusted then maybe "filth" isn't really your thing and you should look for another gimmick.
Liking cool animals is far from transgressive.

>Trigger warnings had to be issued in order to avoid the unexpectedly high number of young women who had never gone to war claiming to have post-traumatic stress disorder.
is she /ourgal/?

not sure, but she spoke about a 30yo anarchist book fair that was that was cancelled after 30 years because of identity /pol/ people losing their shit, which was quite funny

Yea I get why you have that idea.
But don't worry most of the time I'm invisible.

I’ve been boycotting non male authors feminist female for years. All they write is man-hate click-bait anyway. If I wanted that I’d just read HuffPost which is shit but at least it’s free

>Liking cool animals is far from transgressive.
I don't claim that.
There are certain animals that to most regular people are disgusting, creepy and dangerous. That includes snakes and spiders. I know that for zoologists or keepers of such animals there is nothing transgressive about them, but many people still find them icky or scary.

I am speaking in terms of symbology and association. There are certain symbols and imagery that provoke emotions to conventional people. Just compare the aesthetics of pop-music to the ones edgy kids listen to.

My purpose was to evoke those images, not as some sort of self-advertising. Many animals are still perceived as negative. I know people afraid of spiders and snakes, someone who dislikes hyenas and finds them disgusting, that older people hate forests that aren't tidy and have decaying wood in it. Etc.

And you find this across cultures. The Aztec viewed decay as associated with the drunks and scorpions. Aboriginals dislike nature that hasn't been tended by fire. The Aye-aye is seen as some kind of devil by the Madagascar people.

But maybe all that is crossing the boundary of transgressive. I think transgressive means that which departs from the cultural notions of that which is good, just, beautiful, healthy.

*blocks your path*

Pro Tip: It's published by Zero Books. Basically, a vanity publisher. Guaranteed to be 2nd rate.

There’s an article on libcom that made a Nagle and bunc of DSA pussies cry on Twitter

How am I seen by outsiders?

kek

haven't read the book, but basically as frustrated because of no gf made you right wing i think haven't seen some review

case in point, she's trans!

Some people got mad because she comes off as sympathetic

I've only read excerpts but it seems like she spent most of her time reading articles written about Veeky Forums and tumblr rather than interacting with those communities directly

link?

libcom.org/blog/do-marxian-academics-dream-affluent-larpers-17082017

Read Christopher Lasch and Walter Benn Michaels instead. She basically just restates their arguments. Here's Lasch over 20 years ago:
>The new racism is reactive rather than residual, let alone resurgent. It is a response, however inappropriate and offensive, to a double standard of racial justice that strikes most Americans as unreasonable and unfair. Since opposition to an “affirmative” double standard is routinely dismissed as racist, one reaction to this insult, from working- and lower-middle-class people harassed by affirmative action and busing and now from college students harassed by attempts to enforce politically correct language and thought, is to accept “racism” as a badge of honor, to flaunt it, with studied provocation, in the face of those who want to make racism and minority rights the only subject of public discussion.
That's pretty much the argument of Kill All Normies. Nagle has cited Lasch multiple times.

I read it and was pleasantly surprised that she at least tried to explain the roots of the alt-right instead of just jacking off over a superiority complex the whole time. Touching on the reactionary nature to the left's recent lunacy was good and should have been expounded more.
I still feel like she missed the mark with her examination of the "culture" here. It sounds autistic and all but I really think you have to participate in this kind of culture to understand it. The layers of inside references and obscure irony render most of Veeky Forums inaccessible to someone used to social media's straightforward posturing. The further-removed someone is from that culture (such as liberal Twitter outrage-baiters, the target of the article), the less sense it's going to make to them because of how alien it is to their own mindframe. It's the reason there's so much strife ob boards seeing increased traffic from recent media attention, who are attempting to bring a different strain of discourse and humor from "the outside". Consider /pol/'s current division between "praise kek dank memes niggers god emperor teehee" with the old-school Libertarians and NatSoc.
Kantbot's critique was pretty good, I thought.

How would you characterize Nagle's missing of the mark? Could you give any examples off the top of your head?

I agree with you completely, I am just curious to see it in the wild since I haven't read her book.

It's weird to me how simple this place is when you take part in it every day, and how impenetrable it is to "outsiders" by comparison. You nailed it with the description of social media as straightforward posturing though, there's this essential petty social hierarchy maintaining, status-mongering circlejerk component to normie social life, and it extends right onto social media.

I can't imagine THAT reality being my default social reality. I've used Veeky Forums for so long that I find it genuinely baffling when anyone reacts with genuine offense or outrage at anything, or takes petty social shit seriously, or tries to police the opinions of others or what is acceptable to say within their faggy little social group. It's just bizarre to me that people live that way, and that Veeky Forums's MO of radical irreverence is such a rare thing.

It's a shame the site is polluted with so many of those people who only dimly understand it. I hope it doesn't get overrun but it probably will be.

quick guide to books published after 2010: if the book has two titles - a short one and a longer one following - skip it. it's not worth your time to download, skim and then delete.

It was a while ago but what I got was that she thought the culture of Veeky Forums was centered around trolling and using anonymity to say offensive things, whereas I feel like the appeal for myself and many others is that it's sort of a haven from having to police yourself like you would on any site where your opinions are publicly tied to you- the social posturing you pointed out. It goes beyond gleefully baiting for outrage; racist jokes for example can be fun for a short time but that can't be used to explain the site's appeal to young outcasts. No one's dumb enough to spend huge amounts of their free time just baiting for outrage because they like feeling like a bad guy. Conversations I've had in the rare high-quality feels threads have revealed that there are many others that feel this way, sick of having to pretend all the time.

Read SIEGE by James Mason instead. The leftist enemy is insane. No discussion is possible with these freaks. these people want to destroy you, they want to enslave you for the sins of your ancestors, they want to destroy everything you have ever found meaningful. the lgbtsjwtfs, the marxists, the people who run VOX and huffpo, they are too far gone, they are enemies. only an enemy would want to destroy you.

leftoids will watch a film in which ugly obese neon haired 'queers' rape an innocent white child and praise it as a vibrant and touching display of diversity. these people are sick.

>I can't imagine THAT reality being my default social reality. I've used Veeky Forums for so long that I find it genuinely baffling when anyone reacts with genuine offense or outrage at anything, or takes petty social shit seriously, or tries to police the opinions of others or what is acceptable to say within their faggy little social group. It's just bizarre to me that people live that way, and that Veeky Forums's MO of radical irreverence is such a rare thing.

that's because youre not a normal person. none of us here are normal. thats why we wanna kill all normies

lol

mark fisher was published by zero books and was incredible, but now he's dead and they don't publish anything worthwhile

>I've used Veeky Forums for so long that I find it genuinely baffling when anyone reacts with genuine offense or outrage at anything, or takes petty social shit seriously, or tries to police the opinions of others or what is acceptable to say within their faggy little social group.

Came across this sort of behavior the first time a few weeks ago and it was miserable reminder of the reality I, and most people who come from Veeky Forums, aren't usually exposed to. Certain ideas and jokes are just unacceptable to be open for discussion for some people.

I don't think that kind of irreverent, "oh well isn't life a laugh who cares" mindset is exclusive to Veeky Forums though. You get that kind of perspective from comedy shows like south park, rick and morty, and certain stand up comedians.

Veeky Forums users are the only honest people in the world. There's no need to write books or ascribe some kind of ridiculous mystique to Veeky Forums culture. It's a simply honest dialogue between people.

I jerk off to farts

ok nigger

Although most people who hate the book hate it for the wrong reasons, it's still not a great book and fails to live up to the reputation that it's gained from being one of the few books of its kind in terms of subject matter. It's very shallow, but also very short, so you won't waste that much of your time if you end up disliking it.

Cool blogpost shithead, too bad I didn’t read it.

Fuck off, nobody wants to hear about you

angela nagle just seems not that bright honestly. it's an interesting subject and i wish there were better books on it. if mark fisher had lived longer perhaps he would've published one

If Mark Fisher had lived he would have certainly gone Nrx just like Nick Land and pretty much every leftist with half a brain.

he wouldn't have gone neo-reaction at all, he may have gone some kind of proto-fascist or third way.
He is very into nietzsche and a lot of "capitalist realism" relies on nietzsche more than marx. Mark Fisher was into populism and working class culture so there's no way he would've gone to some antihumanist techno-commercialist autist-jew-nerd-axis shit like Nrx. maybe duginism or socdem fascism--like freikorps kinda shit

>these people want to destroy you
This is what I've come to realize. I was always reluctant to go to far into /pol/world because genuine racism never gelled with me, but every day I see more shit confirming that they don't see me (and everyone else) as opposition, but an enemy to be buried by any means possible.

/pol/ has no national socialists, as far as I can tell. It only has 14-16 year old edgy kids dressing up as Nazis while rejecting anything the Nazis actually did or thought as Anti-Nazi propaganda, which is so dumb that it's sad rather than funny. I don't think you can understand the sheer stupidity of the people who inhabit /pol/.

Yeah, my right-wing sympathies began to develop after seeing various statements made by leftists.

>A world so far gone that your allies are Neo-Nazi LARPers and Donald Trump

Your mind has to be broken in order to think that allying with such people will benefit you or your cause in any way.

>Kantbot's critique
This unironically opened my eyes to the mindframe a lot of people have without realizing it. Memes and autism aside he seems like a smart guy.

Read this as part of a paper on a similar but not the same topic I was writing.

Two things pissed me off, and one thing I thought was good.
1. No sources. Seriously, for something touting itself as a chronology and examination of the rise of both right and left-wing extremism on the net, it was sorely lacking in basic academic practice.
2. A little presumptuous. It basically took its theme of transgression as the word of God, and refused to explore any other aspect of how Internet culture has developed. There was little mention of demographics, non-US cultural influence on the Internet, and the actual mechanics of communication on the Internet in creating online culture. There is a lot more to the rise of Internet extremism than 'people like to push boundaries'.

What I did like:
Pretty objective, and not at all withholding of both damnation and sympathy for both sides of the spectrum. Calls it out like it is, and doesn't try to sugarcoat anything. The author is not an apologist, and it makes for a good examination.

Basically, the book just failed to connect the dots on a number of contributing factors, and took this monolithic view of transgression being the cause of everything. It's like she assumes Internet culture and the subsequent spillover into the offline world began circa 2010.

They may be 14-16 year old posers, but they are still filling a vacuum in politics and pushing the caustic dialogue itself, of which there are many true adherents in actual nationalist/anti-democratic circles. They are useful idiots at worst.

>it's an user doesn't understand transgressive fiction episode

>I've noted before that the way this mainstream socialist milieu treats people to their left reminds me a lot of the way Clintonites smeared them as "berniebros."
I see. The False Consciousness is strong with this one.

The continuity of far right thought in Europe means you don't go on the internet to inform yourself about living in/next to nazi Germany or fascist Italy, you just ask grandpa.

>I don't think you can understand the sheer stupidity of the people who inhabit /pol/.
I don't think you can understand that simulating stupidity is a strategy in and of itself, a strategy meant to appeal to the voting base, and most importantly to get the enemy to waste time to talk about a supposed stupidity rather than your actual next move. And I would bet you didn't even have a right to vote at the beginning of Berlusconi's reign. You're not alone in this, so enjoy your eight years of Trump doing the same exact things. Perhaps he'll be "caught" on record calling an European PM an "unfuckable lardass" like his spiritual prequel did.

Of course all of this would be very profitable for comedians and news stations that claim to be aligned to the left, that would rather tell you of such story and how Trump allegedly embarassed himself, than repeating "Everything is fine!" without end under a Clinton administration, so you know who are they really rooting for. But they are capitalists too, you know?

HAHAHAHA BERLUSCONI SAID ROMULUS AND "REMULUS" WHAT A DUNB IGNORANT AHAHAHAHAH GEORGE DUBYA JR IS TRYING TO READ A BOOK UPSIDE DOWN AHAHAHAHAH /pol/ LITERALLY AND ACHTCHUALLY BELIEVES IN THE SUPERNATURAL AND I DON'T EVEN BELIVE IN BELIEF AHAHAHAHAHA WHAT A SICK BURN THEY ARE SO REKT HAHAHAHA I AM LAUGHING AT WORDS AND DEEDS UNRELATED TO POLITICAL THEORY AND PRAXIS AHAHAHAHA SMACK THE LIKE BUTTON AND SUBSCRIBE IF YOU'RE NEW TO BECOME A GENIUS OF POLITICS LIKE ME HAHAHAHA
In your own words:
>is so dumb that it's sad rather than funny

>Could you give any examples off the top of your head?
You could start from the title of the book. What begins with dishonest, retarded clickbait, or cover-turning-bait I should say, can only get worse.

I'd like to see something resembling a form of left populism before I die lol.

>non-US cultural influence on the Internet
Amen.
>mechanics of communication on the Internet
Amen.
>There is a lot more to the rise of Internet extremism than 'people like to push boundaries'
Amen.
>monolithic view of transgression being the cause of everything
Amen.

I was a bit underwhelmed by Capitalist Realism. Felt like he just updated post-structuralist and Frankfurt theories for today. What else should I read by him?

honestly capitalist realism was my favorite thing of his. it has a lot of references but i think whether or not it's "derivative" doesn't matter, what matters is that it has a succinct and powerful summary of a unifying ideological trend. sort of like "society of the spectacle" for the 21st century. i think it's incredibly accessible while not being dumb. I like all the pop culture references mixed in with fukuyama and nietzsche. But I do think his music writing is good and all the stuff with ccru u can find all that under the pseudonym "k-punk". "ghosts of my life" is a collection of essays on "hauntology" it's also very good.

>I'd like to see something resembling a form of left populism before I die lol.

well i do think dugin is correct that the new politics will be beyond traditional left and right axes. not so much ascended centrism as ascended anti-centrism, or anti-globalism. balkanization and a return to ethnos. the left will have to realize that this hegelian shit doesnt work and concentrate on small scale enclaves like the zapatistas, IRA, rojava

In two words? Not well

Yeah but those outlets always feel they have to moralize at the end of it all. A sort of "haha, that was funny guys, we had our laughs, but really, it's not funny". Veeky Forums doesn't give a fuck about that. I can post the most flagrantly racist/misogynistic/misanthropic thing I can think of as a goof and people will jump to my aid purely because they know it's just a goof (or are willing to treat something that isn't a goof AS a goof to enhance ironic funposting goodness). No one has to say "but really, this is wrong" because we're not fucking retards and we believe that people can make value judgements for themselves. That's why the "alt-right" (buzzword term that means nothing and ties together groups that hate each other btw) started here and has a home here: no one is gonna say "okay your jokes were funny and all but you're not allowed to think that way for real" because we disain moralfags going on their quixotic crusades.

Only a year ago I would have told you to fuck off back to /pol/, but now I don't know...

>I think the Chaos Gods reflect well the different ways in which one can be transgressive. I am more someone interested in decay, decline, filth, disease and suffering.

BUT B AND POL ARE MEEEEEEEEEEEEAN

The beauty of this conversation is i have no way of telling who is being truthful, ironic, post-ironic, or post-post-ironic.
The first post seems truthful, but might be a cleverly disguised ruse to take the piss out of a belief system the poster doesn't subscribe to. Do they actually think that Veeky Forums posters are more truthful (a claim I don't disagree with), or is he saying this when he really is satirizing the tendency to suck our own dicks?
The reply is even more interesting. "I jerk off to farts". Seems like it has to be an ironic jab at the previous poster: post something you don't actually do to undermine his claims about truthfulness. But perhaps they really DO jerk off to farts? I've seen people around here that do, perhaps he is knowingly telling the truth in the most easily-mistaken-for-ironic way conceivable to make his OWN point about the website. Perhaps he, like me, sees through the ruse that I posited the first poster made and is posting truth to counter this theoretical satire?
And we cap it off with "ok nigger". Perhaps he truly is a racist, perhaps he's doing t for shock value.
The best part is, you don't even know if I'M BEING IRONIC with this post. Perhaps I'm satirizing over-intellectualized Veeky Forums posts? But then why call it into question? But then why call my calling into question? So on and so forth.
In short: to any aspiring would-be normalfags who think they can write factually about Veeky Forums without being in the shit, so to speak, I say: good luck.

this

Equality was always a pretense. The slave wants to become a king in his turn.

tl;dr

Thanks user, I will check out your recs

/thread

Which is ironic when those are big tent movement s and have significant conservative and reactionary elements

>everyone on goodreads is mad because she said mean things about tumblr

The fact that someone from Spiked made the list makes my heart warm