''The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao''

I'm pondering if the man who discovered fire burned to death

Hmmm okay den

lol only retards who never made it to college think like this. not having a college experience will seriously disadvantage you in this world. Im talking about the whole experience, parties, discussions, talking to your professor about a book after class, different view points from people from different places all united under an empirical and skeptic approach to gathering facts about our world. no youre not a thinker cause you get high and read comic books. nobody is that smart that they dont need anyone else to teach them things. furthermore, people in the real world can tell when someone doesnt have a college degree just from a conversation. and they will look down on you. they will also look down on you because you are so ignorant to think that you can reach the same level of education by yourself, without instructors and a structured system that produced the minds whose books you are reading.

also no worthwhile woman will waste her time with someone whos as narcissistic as you

Wew. You sure got upset.

His parents sent him to the Imperial University of the Golden Dragon. It largely operates on an enDaoment from the Emperor and helps wayward youths learn how tod make some ka-ching, but Laozi accidentally signed for a class on the I-Ching. There he found the way.

Not him but my grandfather was a columnist in a local newspaper, has been awarded for one of his short stories and is very well read. He didnt even finish elementary school because of the war.
I just want to point out that having no higher education is not an intellectual death sentence.

Well isn't that convenient.
Well isn't that convenient.

Shitposts and substantive posts define each other.

>nobody is that smart that they dont need anyone else to teach them things.

Going for it! Feeling the tug:

How the fuck do you think science works if not having the world teach us things about it rather than having someone tell us about it? Discovery of information about the world may require some fundamental skills, but what we gather from the world can't be given to us from another person in mass. Fundamentals can be acquired for any endeavour without a teacher. It's just harder. But the isolation and ignorance is what strengthens ingenuity.

That we're at a disadvantage because of our social group is you holding a high opinion about status because I assume you've never lived with the thought of how you'll rot alongside us all. Maybe I'm playing against my vanity here, but, as I've said before, to be known you do from weakness. You require what you don't have and you're so weak you need it. You'll need it even if none of it needs you.

>also no worthwhile woman will waste her time with someone whos as narcissistic as you

luckily you can pay for an hour here and there for some of decent value. Educational expenses having some merit for certain fundamental institutions.

Ha!

Friendly reminder that the Tao that can be traversed by whites is not the true Tao.
All you pink lads best stay away from eastern philosophy, stick to something more your speed.

Try catching ethics in words. Try to put a morally right action in words, or try writing down the taste of an orange. You cannot accurately capture the taste of an orange in text, it cannot be told, only tasted.

True. The difference between having a certain what most would call "mystical" understanding or experience, and writing about such an experience, is comparable to trying to describe the taste of an orange to someone who has never tastes it. The Sufis have a saying: "He who tastes, knows." Might sound a little edgy, but you can also compare this to written descriptions of powerful psychedelics. If you've never a powerful psychedelic like LSD or shrooms before, just as a thought experiment, read/imagine reading a lot of written reports people made on their experiences on these. You'll have some idea of it. Now actually try the psychedelic: you'll realize so much of it can't be captured in words.

Saying these always brings out either the worst or best in people; it either brings out a curious side in people, or a defensive, angry, smug and superior side in people.

>Now actually try the psychedelic

I was in a hotel room in India last year, drying a few vials of pharmaceutical ketamine to split with two other friends. As we were waiting for it to dry, one of the guys, who had only smoked weed before, was getting really nervous and insisted on knowing what it felt like before doing it. Me and the other guy had to give up trying to describe, and afterwards he realised why we couldn't describe it.

Try to imagine perceiving in the way other animals do. Like Nagel's bat. Imagine clicking your fingers and being able to create a detailed mental image of the room based on how the sound is bounced back to you. Having a full colour model of the room around you, but colours are based on object density instead. Being able to clearly see a soft cushion on a hard chair, in full colour, because you can perceive how sound waves are bounced off an object instead of waves of light... Or a snake, who sticks out his forked tongue, catches particles, and presses this to the roof of his mouth. Even though he's using his tongue, it's more scent based than taste. But still. Imagine seeing the world through scent. If you close your eyes, you can kinda tell where somebody farted, and you can hear the echo difference between a tiled bathroom and a carpeted bedroom. But trying to imagine the mental image of the world that other animals have is crazy.

Leave Lao-tzu alone, LEAVE HIM ALONE!!!

''Those of old who were skilled in the Way
Did not use it to enlighten people,
But rather to maintain simplicity.
When people are difficult to govern
It’s because they’ve become too clever.
Governing the state by cleverness
Is a disaster for the state.
Not to govern a state by cleverness
Is a blessing for the state.
These are the givens.
To always understand the given,
Is called mysterious virtue.
Mysterious virtue is deep and profound.
When things return to the given, it returns.
And only then are things in complete accord.''

What did he mean by this?

How do Westerners into Chinese philosophy? It's always shit like "Life is like a goose walking in the winter snow"

Plato said the same thing in his seventh letter

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventh_Letter

>Plato claims that Dionysius was an impostor, for he had written a metaphysical treatise that he claimed was superior to Plato's lectures. Plato can claim that Dionysius was an impostor because the truth about metaphysics cannot be expressed in writing and all those who know the truth know this

>no serious person would ever attempt to teach serious philosophic doctrines in a book or to the public at large

Read some secondary sources. Also try to shed your ''western'' way of thinking I suppose. Eastern philosophy is less compartmentalized and not married to science in the way western philosophy is, instead being holistic and tending towards mysticism, especially in the case of taoism.

I got The Tao of Pooh as a gift, then read Lao Zi, moved on to Zhuang Zi, and now I'm reading all the minor taoists, trying to get a broader picture.

Newfags and oldfags contrast each other.

the point that can be missed is not the eternal point

>stick to something more your speed.

Absolute truth can't be described in mere words unless you keep making them up which defeats the purpose.
Absolute truth can't be reached when you try to find flaws in other people's logic at any cost.

Absolute truth bears its own witness. The logic of another be damned.

Yeah but doesn't that mean that you can just dismiss everybody's opinion when the slightest mistake appears in their POV and thus you don't get the gist of their worldview leading to eskewed perception of the world since knowledge is the opiniof of others ratified as true in our mind?

Absolute truth can't be described in mere words. The opinion of another be damned.

>Absolute truth can't be described in mere words.
Well I agree but since we don't hold absolute truth, and we dismiss all opinions that we don't like, how do we find absolute truth?

Should I attend university or should I not attend university?

This is fear of missing out.

This is fear.

Go to university, or don't, but don't put others down for their choices. The world is a big place. You can learn more from people who don't read but are nevertheless happy, and you can learn from people who have read a lot and have had a lot of conversations with other people that have also read a lot.

Either way, the joy and misery will be taken from you when you die. But that's okay because you'll be too dead to care.

Just don't hurt others.

just b yourself

The best part about having gone to a Ivy League college is I can now criticize it as much as I want without pseuds like you saying "hurr only a retard who didn't make it to college can think like that".

lol only retards who went to college think like this. Having a college experience will seriously disadvantage you in this world. I'm talking about the whole experience, parties, discussions, talking to your professor about a book after class, different view points from people from different places all united under an empirical and skeptic approach to gathering facts about our world. It's all bullshit and there's literally nothing you can do or get in college you can't outside of college. No you're not a thinker because you get high and go to class. Nobody is that smart that they don't need anyone else to teach them things but some people are so retarded they think college is the only place anyone "learns." Furthermore, people in the real world can tell when someone has a bullshit college degree just from a conversation. And they will looks down on you. And they will make fun of you. They will also look down on you because you are so ignorant to think that you reached some level of education, by just memorizing and regurgitating whatever your instructors and the structured system created by your instructors told you to think and say.

As for the last sentence, the irony is right.

This is just my interpretation:

You need to be clever to trick someone into doing what you want. Governing by taking the actions or launching schemes you think will produce the right result eventually leads to a situation where that behavior is common. Ultimately, governing is impossible when people are not acting honestly.

>Well isn't that convenient.
do you really want to stick around for the entire performance? you've gotta reckon on a couple billion years of it being equivalent to at least 6 hours of experimental sound art

>I can now criticize it as much as I want
You could do so before, you are just insecure and wanted to validate your opinions in your head.

Best part of Ive League college is joining the illuminati. You are confirmed poor.

My interpretation:

"I'm going to stay out of everyone's way because on some subconscious level I recognize that I'm an ineffectual loser, but to protect my fragile ego I'm going delude myself into thinking I've cleverly manipulated the situation to my benefit."

Well isn’t that convenient.

>Well isn't that convenient.
kek

My translation says ''knowledge'' rather than cleverness. Guess I'll just have to learn Chinese.

the fundamental error that every anti-college poster makes is believing that successful college students are regurgitators. the environment is designed to have you producing problems, not reproducing answers. the highest graded papers aren’t those that “crack the code” of an allegory and offer some master interpretation, but those that evidence a close attention to textual discontinuity. now, your first response is going to be to say that this is just “pomo” ideology. at some point though you will discover for yourself that there is a singularity to the literary text, that it breaks apart on its own, and that in a 20 page college term paper (which, and now i must condescend, i’m sure you can’t even imagine yourself putting together) the best you can do is sketch the contours.

on the other hand, my highest grades have always been on my most tendentious papers. i recall one paper where the professor commented that it was enlightening for him precisely insofar as he didn’t agree with a single thing i said; the difference to his own thinking on the poetry was productive, and for that reason i received an A.

so stop thinking that in academia there is a right answer you’re meant to look for and sus out. this ideology is put forward by the sparknotes of the world in an effort to stupefy and to devalue critical thought—not, by the way, because of any perceived subversiveness or danger, but simply because it doesn’t sell crib books

Does anybody have experience reading eastern philosophy in its original chinese? Is it just a matter of memorizing enough characters? I know a bit of mandarin already.

Nice bait, kid.

Zhuangzi is better.

4. (King) Yung of Wei made a treaty with the marquis Thien Mâu (of Khî), which the latter violated. The king was enraged, and intended to send a man to assassinate him. When the Minister of War heard of it, he was ashamed, and said (to the king), 'You are a ruler of 10,000 chariots, and by means of a common man would avenge yourself on your enemy. I beg you to give me, Yen, the command of 200,000 soldiers to attack him for you. I will take captive his people and officers, halter (and lead off) his oxen and horses, kindling a fire within him that shall burn to his backbone. I will then storm his capital; and when he shall run away in terror, I will flog his back and break his spine.' Kî-Tsze heard of this advice, and was ashamed of it, and said (to the king), 'We have been raising the wall (of our capital) to a height of eighty cubits, and the work has been completed. If we now get it thrown down, it will be a painful toil to the convict builders. It is now seven years since our troops were called out, and this is the foundation of the royal sway. Yen would introduce disorder;-- he should not be listened to.' Hwâ-tsze heard of this advice, and, greatly disapproving of it, said (to the king), 'He who shows his skill in saying "Attack Khî!" would produce disorder; and he who shows his skill in saying "Do not attack it " would also produce disorder. And one who should (merely) say, "The counsellors to attack Khî and not to attack it would both produce disorder," would himself also lead to the same result.' The king said, 'Yes, but what am I to do?' The reply was, 'You have only to seek for (the rule of) the Tâo (on the subject).'

Hui-tsze, having heard of this counsel, introduced to the king Tâi Tsin-zan, who said, 'There is the creature called a snail; does your majesty know it?' 'I do.' 'On the left horn of the snail there is a kingdom which is called Provocation, and on the right horn another which is called Stupidity. These two kingdoms are continually striving about their territories and fighting. The corpses that lie on the ground amount to several myriads. The army of one may be defeated and put to flight, but in fifteen days it will return.' The king said, 'Pooh! that is empty talk!' The other rejoined, 'Your servant begs to show your majesty its real significance. When your majesty thinks of space-- east, west, north, and south, above and beneath-- can you set any limit to it?' 'It is illimitable,' said the king; and his visitor went on, 'Your majesty knows how to let your mind thus travel through the illimitable, and yet (as compared with this) does it not seem insignificant whether the kingdoms that communicate one with another exist or not?' The king replies, 'It does so;' and Tâi Tsin-zan said, finally, 'Among those kingdoms, stretching one after another, there is this Wei; in Wei there is this (city of) Liang; and in Liang there is your majesty. Can you make any distinction between yourself, and (the king of that kingdom of) Stupidity?' To this the king answered, 'There is no distinction,' and his visitor went out, while the king remained disconcerted and seemed to have lost himself.

With Lao Tzu as his host, Confucius literally buried himself in books for days on end in the royal library. Books were a rare possession of a few privileged people, and Confucius had never seen so many books before. It opened his eyes, and laid the foundation for his career as an educator.

At the farewell party held at the city gate, Lao Tzu said to him in a soft and clear voice, “Men of wealth give money as a gift on such an occasion while men of virtue and knowledge give advice. I had neither money nor virtue. Let me pretend as a man of knowledge only for the moment to say a few words to you, our honourable guest, Confucius. Firstly, what you are studying and teaching now is all from ancient men, who died a long time ago and even their bones have rotted away. Those written words are in fact only their footprints, neither their shoes nor their feet, let alone what was in their minds. Don’t regard their words as some sort of unbreakable dogma. Secondly, as a man of virtue and knowledge, you can have your own cart and live a luxurious life. If the time does not permit, it will be perfectly okay as long as you can manage to survive. Thirdly, once I was told of an old saying: a good merchant does not show his goods and a man of utmost virtue is always simple. It will do you good if you cut off your pride, get rid of your greed, reduce your haughtiness, throw away some of your ambitions. It will serve your family better, and it will serve your state better if you are not too stubborn no matter whenever, wherever, and whatever.”

Confucius was puzzled at the first few words and felt totally lost when Lao Tzu finished his speech. At one point, Confucius had determined to ask all the questions to get to the root of the matter. But at the end, Confucius seemed to be shrouded in thick fog and nothing was clear. He knew neither what to ask nor how to ask. His heart was still pounding, ears humming, and his throat choking when everyone at the party had dried their cups and were saying goodbye.

Was this really the same Lao Tzu whom he had stayed with in the last few weeks in the capital? Lao Tzu had been a kind, warm, and often humorous, old gentleman, treating him as his own son. There had always been a full answer whatever Confucius’s question was.

When Confucius was on his way home with the capital in the distance, a few men were hunting on horse back. A duck fell from the sky at the release of the bowstring. It suddenly dawned on Confucius who recited slowly, “Birds can fly but will fall at the hunter’s arrow. Fish can swim but will be hooked by the fisherman. Beasts can run but will drop into people’s nets and traps. There is only one thing that is out of man’s reach. That’s the legendary dragon. A dragon can fly into the sky, ride on clouds, dive into the ocean. A dragon is powerful yet so intangible to us. Lao Tzu is a dragon, and I’ll never understand him.”

>be high iq stemfag
>go to testing center for GRE test cause i wanna get stem Ph.D
>girl tells me she thinks I'm there to take either something for trade school or GRE
>get gf
>she tells me that she thought I looked like a construction worker until she saw textbooks all around my room
>mfw Veeky Forums was right and stem is high iq trade school
good thing i like theorems and shit!

So say that that is convenient is just another way but it is not the eternal way.

I made it to college, graduated and never experienced the college life.

>enDaoment
Fuck you

Your bait is as unfunny as how you're trying to refer to the opposite of university intellectual life. That every professor is self oblivious is weak. There are good professors and good discussions to be had there. It's not as black and white as you'd like it to be, though maybe it is down south. I don't know.

''I'm incapable of articulating my feels, so they're clearly ineffable''

God I hate Chinese ''philosophy''.

Clearly Wittgenstein was redundant

hmm, okay then

The reality of the universe can't be described with words. However, since the author of the taoteching chose words to describe it, what is being described is more of a human approximation of the ultimate reality than reality itself. Ultimate reality can only be experienced, but not described with words.

True

Right for perhaps some people interested in mysticism/Taoism but not for all of them.

okay but how do I not get into debt

Haha!

You can not no da way