Can someone explain to me, why is Goethe regarded as one of the most intelligent, talented and influential person to ever walk this planet?
Sure, he was part of many aspects of civil and social life in his time, but he came from a priviledged background as well, so that was pretty much expected.
What exactly was so groundbreaking he did in his life?
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He was an ubermensch dude. Everybody admired him.
One question
Do you speak German?
Germany didn't yet have a tradition of literary icons like France and England did so they found their most prolific turboautist
No, I'm from Finlan
The Germans had to meme the only decent fiction writer in their canon. He was also a celebrity at the time, like a mix of Byron, Descartes and Shakespeare; except he isn't any where near the latter two, obviously.
Germans are truly the worlds untermensch
He was one of the last great polymaths OP. Talking about his privileged background is strange because basically everyone who developed science/arts back then did so from a privileged background (we would still be in this stage if not for public funding...how to have free time without money?). No matter his background, he was impressively smart and remarkably knowledgeable/inspiring even among his direct peers.
Not only he wrote Faust across the whole of his life, making it a true-to-nature piece of a man's thoughts as he grows older, he also promoted scientific inquiries and as you said acted out in civil matters. He was a great counselor both personally and through his writings, and managed to put things into paper in a way few German authors ever did.
To sum it up, he did no one particular groundbreaking thing with his life except living it in a pretty desirable/enviable manner that most people would, if that, only dream about.
He founded about as many movements as he had works written. He was good at anything he tried his hand at. Read the Italian Journey and you see he lived every day in constant discovery and inquiry. He wasn't a scientist, he just got into botany because plants really interested him, and he ended up advancing the field, along with his work on color. Read Faust because it's one of the greatest works in any language.
Or for a very general overview: youtube.com
It's an insult to compare anyone to Byron desu. Goethe wasn't like that because he actually had his shit together.
>completes the project of human flourishing
>"nothing groundbreaking"
god you are such a fucking piece of shit I would love to just fucking fight you in real life you faggot.
Goethe is like the Romantic Jesus, essentially.
Learn to read, you clown.
also goethe's philosophy of science is much more useful than all of that burger cuckery that we have right now. didn't achieve anything, I fucking swear.
I don't have TIME to read, I know what you wrote, I don't give a shit you faggot.
And if it is only about the language, the surely Kafka should hold much more gravity in that regard, but Goethe is always paired with blokes like Einstein.
And yes, I know Kafka isn't exactly German but someone who wrote in German.
Memes, pretty much. He unironically thought Byron was a great writer lol
You got so mad you answered a third person's post telling you to calm down and read. WELL I BET GOETHE WOULD HAVE CALMED DOWN AND READ THE POST
Kafka has never been known for his poetry
user said
>he did no one PARTICULAR groundbreaking thing
which is absolutely correct in the sense that on the contrary you can point at Ulysses as the culmination of Joyce, but with Goethe there is no such thing. Goethe's greatness was everything he did.
Goethe wasn't a scientist, his poetry about colours did shit to advance physics. I haven't looked into his biological studies and don't really expect to find anything.
that’s some shit opinion
Goethe would have called you a cuck and fucked your wife.
So his brilliance was being the jack of all trades but the master of none?
He pointed out what Newton missed but his explanation was what missed the mark. His impact was on color theory. You see a color wheel in every art classroom.
Yep.
No, his brilliance was mastering every jack he shoved his fat german trade into.
off topic but whenever I think of goethe I think of this man, who was born the same year (1749) and lived long enough to be photographed
His theories interest more philosophers than scientists, tells it all.
>His impact was on color theory. You see a color wheel in every art classroom.
Yeah, except that color wheels existed long before Goethe was even born. His color theory had no impact on anything.
that's a compliment desu. STEM has brought humans nothing but pain.
faust is basically the best bewk EVER
Faust 1 is really good. 2 is a bit shit.
thats because youre too young for II
No, it's more because it's a bit shit.
nah
Now here's the part of the thread where a load of krauts start claiming that Goethe is literally unreadable and a completely different writer as soon as he is translated out of German, unlike all other canonical greats who's genius can be understood in basically any European language.
German here. I just really don't give a shit what you think about Goethe.
>privilege makes someone less respectable not more
fucking read nietzsche you resentful swine
k
Goethe is fucking brilliant. And if you can’t see that, you’re a fucking faggot, desu.
I don't need to, it's all already been raw and on for display.
Judge Holden? Is he not merely a caricature of Goethe dolled up in Uebermensch proto-Nazi drag?
>basically everyone who developed science/arts back then did so from a privileged background
This is still the case, by the way. "You can become anything you want" is a meme.
>2 is a bit shit
wrong
...
>another explain Goethe to me thread
I've always wonder why this board has such trouble with him. Pretty much every Goethe thread we have here goes like this, which is too bad.
you are an idiot, go read goethe
>I've always wonder why this board has such trouble with him
Barely anyone speaks German for a start
Absolute state of Veeky Forums
because he translated Christopher Marlowe for the barbaric swine of dutchland
>He pointed out what Newton missed but his explanation was what missed the mark
so what did Newton miss? Seems like Goethe had 100 year buthurt about Newton getting the glory instead of Leibniz
Goethe MADE the modern german language simply by the power of his prose and his poetry. There is no Kafka, no Mann, no Brecht without him.
He was both an original thinker and an interpreter of existing material. A man of letters and an author, a poet and a statesman. He was, also, an unusually honest person, concerned not only with himself, or others, or natural life, or intellectual life, but everything.
Saying all that isn't really necessary if you can read him in the original and see his brilliance for yourself.
Admit it, if you read The Sorrows of Young Werther and didn't know the historical context, you'd have called it a cheesy, amateurish, angsty schlock written by a 14 year old emo boy. I dare say even Twilight is better.
>the only decent fiction writer in their canon
Not even German but wew
ayy
I'm a native German speaker. Goethe's language is much richer than Kafka's. Kafka belongs to our time while Goethe lived centuries ago, so it's remarkable that his language still mean something to us. So it's ridiculous to say Kafka had 'more gravity' in that regard. Kafka's significance comes more from the composition of his works rather than from his style
that's neat. But who is it?
I disagree about Kafka. Native german speaker too. I think he was a greater prose writer than Goethe, but a worse man and not as complete as Goethe, even taking into account modern sensibilities
>isn't anywhere near Descartes
You mean he isn't dogshit? I agree, but I don't really see the need to make that explicit on a literature board.
That goes for most works that deal in any way with love or morality and are 200+ years old. For Shakespeare, too
he was just lucky to be alive at his time with no mass media around execpt newspapers books and theatre. Today he would drown in the mass of novels, tv, internet and nobody would give a fuck about him except some university jerks
> I think he was a greater prose writer
I disagree, too. I think we feel like this because he belongs to our time and we can relate to his problems and longings. Goethe was a classicist and served the same demands like Beethoven and Mozart, he had a completely different view on art than Kafka. Kafka won't be remembered as outstanding prose writer in 2150 like Goethe is today
are u a tim traveler ?
no, but other than classicists Kafka never tried to create art that transcends his time
You'd have to be stupid to put Werther in that category. Very surface level. I doubt you ever read the book, desu. Keep reading Wikipedia though, could help you on Jeopardy one day.
This is like calling Heart of Darkness racist
>You'd have to be stupid to put Werther in that category. Very surface level. I doubt you ever read the book, desu. Keep reading Wikipedia though, could help you on Jeopardy one day.
Tearing down Goethe is the ultimate brainlet filter.
>He wrote Faust and I heard that was good, but like...so? Where are the memes?
It's actually impossible to overstate Goethe's genius.
It is though
...
That's embarrassing.
Is there anything more pleb than Bioshock?
I dont get it
Conrad Heyer
Goethe was a spineless bourgeois cuck. Schiller, Kleist, and Hölderlin were all far superior to him.
>Kleist
kek. you're right about the others, at least when it comes to drama. then again, I don't know anything about theater, so I could as well be wrong, but the Goethe ballads are very nice, much better than the Schiller ones.
Judge Holden? Are you referencing Blood Meredian?
Non native German speaker here, Goethe has created beauty that is of the likes of Beethoven or Shakespeare, while of Kafka we can find equivalents easier.
Thus spake Zarathustra is deeper than anything G has written
...
whose*
There's at least double digit IQ gap between Goethe and you. You will never understand him.
Stop trying and pick up that airport novel.
this is a good picture
Sure showed me
Descartes is one of the most influential philosophers who has ever lived. Goethe is completely forgotten as a philosopher.
I was. Throughout the beginning of the book both the judge's knowledge and manner brought none other than Goethe to mind. It was a personal response, and therefore means little. FWIW I'd read Dichtung und Wahrheit, both Fausts, both Wilhelm Meisters, Werther, Affinities, the lyrics in West-Oestliche, and the Auden translation of Italian Jouney before reading Blood. Though English is easier (quicker) for me than reading in German, I've read him in both languages (Meine Grosseltern und Vater sind Deutsch). It was just an impression.
Goethe himself thought that he would be remembered as a scientist for his ridiculous colour theory rather than as a writer kek
Care to name one person who writes like Kafka? Shouldn't be a problems if it's that easy, but only one would do.
>Pretty much expected
How many of the privileged people you know wrote something even remotely on the level of the motherfucking Faust?
Being born in a wealthy family in the 18th century most likely ment you were bound to hold somewhat important position in civil and social life of the time.
Is reading comprehension hard for you?