Why are people so against communism when communism has not yet been achieved and would actually solve the problems that...

Marx believed people were Tabula Rasa, which is the same fallacy Rand falled for, and the same reason why demogagues have supported their philosophy.
By seeing people as a blank slate, human nature becomes whatever is convienent for the ruling class. Communism is a hippie fantasy that ignores people's darker drives, and wants people to act nice and rationally all the time. Marxism can be used as a guideline for identifying problems, but to see him as a guideline for solutions is an oversimplification of the problems with laissez faire capitalism.

No "human nature." It doesn't exist. Stop memeing it.

Materialist Dialectic is just wrong
Same with Labor surplus theory
Same with collective right to capital as social product

...

Forsure read Marx before talking about him you ignorant fool

This monstrous thing is in my state.

Don't they know that he was racist and sexist?

And Cohen seems to be the only recent scholar who actually tries to reconcile that, otherwise it's redirected toward social superstructures like that weasel Gramsci, or just interesting foolishness like Althusser

>DUDE REAL COMMUNISM HAS NEVER BEEN TRIED LMAO
Every fucking time. When will you commies give up and admit communism is impossible?

Not backing any horse here but,,,,

Couldn't you argue that at a certain point it is exactly that "darker drive" that would drive one to communism? Like through education a working poor in the US could come to the conclusion that its his boss who's fucking him harder than the fellas in the Mexican trailer camp down the highway, wouldn't it be selfish of him to then argue for the value of his labor? He's not in it for his fellow worker, he just wants what he believes is his. Thats not necessarily "nice" and fuck it might not even be rational, maybe he sees his friends at work unionizing and just joins because they tell him they'll get his wages up.

I'm only dissecting one point of your post obviously, but its a point that I see brought up a lot. The "humans are too selfish to into communism" point, that is.

trolled hard

Damn, ya got me...

They'll probably learn that when you learn to not fall for super obvious bait

In today's Veeky Forums, getting trolled by everything at all is considered a great virtue.

This whole ‘ignoring people’s darker drives’ is exactly the reason that there has been an obsession with trying to fuse Marx and Freud for the last century, and why the current dominate paradigm on the Marxist left is so focused on Lacan. Zizek’s mantra when talking about anything like nationalism, racism, populism and so on, is constantly to reiterate ‘enjoyment as a political factor’. Or more specifically, using jouissance as a concept in political analysis.

I don't know shit about anything, but I *believe* the point about selfishness has more to do with the eventual instability of any Communist utopia, not about its beginnings.

sometimes i do understand people who go off the wall and kill a bunch of people in the sense that i just autism-raged at you fucks so hard that at this moment i would be able to behead all you goddamned retards for being such dumbass cunts

How is it bait? It's a valid question.

...

I meant to cover that but I slipped up. But so wouldn't it lead that if you kept standard of living relatively high as well as good education, that you could create a culture where people recognized that selfishness isn't necessarily *wrong* but that in want for a society that values it, you roll some pretty unfavorable dice that will probably put you along the dreggs of society we have currently?

Still technically selfish "we should keep communism, because the alternative has a high chance of being even worse for me." It's the same thing that keeps capitalism alive, eh? "Look at the socialist shithole over there, nevermind the capitalist shitholes, look at how bad it'd be in a socialist country." Public disbelief in the validity of communism isn't based on a good grasp of economics, world hisory, or theory. Just like public worship of the free market isn't based on those things either. (I mean the general public of course). If capitalism was believed by the general populous to be a big risk for them personally, then they'd keep socialism for selfish reasons. It just so happens that the collective selfishness of many in that context, turns out to be good for everyone.

I'm really just thinking out loud about the whole "human nature" point here is all.

It is a valid question. But it's also an incredibly stupid one. Thats why it's bait.

Valid critiques of capitalism doesn't mean the alternative is superior.

>It's a stupid question
>It's bait
>It's trolling

Really good retorts that made me rethink my position. I hate you lumpentards that have ruined any sort of debate or discussion with simplistic banality.

fart on my dick

>Starts with absolutism
>Everyone recognizes bait
>Mad
>Everyone recognizes brainlet

>Really good retorts that made me rethink my position.
Good. You should. Your question was fuckin stupid.

Why do you want to fuck? Why do you want to get money? Why do you want to survive?

well fuck you I just started reading Marx so i'm glad there are threads. And I'm certainly not going to fucking /pol/
(I'm not OP)

Materialism is disgusting

that doesn't make sense. What is meant by "human nature" in this context is the idea of competition over resources, fighting against each other, exploiting one another instead of living together. And what you mention are basic desires and needs for existence

Go on...

read the Qu'ran

That's a limited use of "human nature" that's bound to cause confusion. If you fill in human nature as somehow meaning unrelenting competition, then you're bound to see Tabula Rasa as the only alternative, or at least suggest it is accidently. That's tricky rhetoric cause that's another fallacy used to exploit people

Because people feel better when their actions are rewarded

Because inequality is fairer you dumb fuck

Communism has just become another commodification of capitalism. I'm sure your revolution will come any day now bro lmfao

Define communism.

If you do it right you'll define it as a stateless classless society.
Which means no police, no separation of powers, no hierarchy.
It's just laughable. How do you tackle rape? Mob rule? Oh I get it, the revolution will change the essence of Man and no one will ever feel desire to rape. Communism is a joke, Marx tried as much as possible to divert the discussion from the goal of his ideology to the methods of achieving it, because he either literally believed or deceptively defended the bullshit claim that the so-called human nature was defined by mode of production, and the the communist man, the free man, would something wholly different that we can't conceive, therefore we shouldn't bother imagining what communism would actually be like. But anyone with common sense can see through this pseudo-scientific bullshit.

>rewarded by being taken care of completely through community effort in exchange for labour as opposed to not being taken care of and having to do everything yourself plus labour plus extras

That reward sucks dick. You're right.

but that's wrong you fucking retard
try reading him first or just kill yourself instead

communism doesn't reward anyone fopr their labor, it rewards people simply for being part of the community. There's no pressure to make people actually work if they aren't individually rewarded to work, that's why every socialist country has been extremely militaristic, oppressive and implemented literal (as in, actual, real) slavery.

read marx

Marx never got to communism. Probably people who've read him are against it because Marx himself thought it involved several horrific genocidal dictatorships before it would even approach the groundwork for communism.

read marx

this is the type of quality reply you can expect from marxists.
>r-read my holy book

already did, it's shit

I have. That's how I know what he said.

books confirmed shit Veeky Forums is FINISHED

its never been achieved because Marxist ideology doesn't create communism, it creates dictators

can freedom be achieved in a world in witch violence exists?

why don't you make it a suicide-murder
it's like a murder-suicide but in reverse

>it's another OP doesn't understand historical materialism thread
>OP doesn't know Marx said capital won't go away until it nearly kills us all and eats itself
>OP thinks he could read Marx's prose
If you just want to be shit on for being dumb, you can post Harry Potter.

trolled hard

Try Engels, kid, he's more your speed.

no, kill 'em all

Yes. With violence.

How about I put a bullet in your head filthy commie

>argues that humans can live in happy cooperative environment
>tells people to kill themselves when his world view is challenged

I always wonder this exact same thing whenever I see anarchists

>communism has not yet been achieved
Each and every attempt to achieve comunism fails and kills milions.
By now insusting anyone should try again and achieve comunism this time is intellectual dishonesty. You know you'd fail, we know you'd fail, everyone know comunism is rubbish.

>OP thinks he could read Marx's prose
Marx's prose is drooling retard tier.
Everybody understand what Marx meant here, and he was wrong.

why would one refrain from using human nature as an argument,it literally btfos your theory instantly

>Beliving in materialistic concepts of the world in 2018

dude just wait

>communism has not yet been achieved
Because it cannot be achieved.
And any attempt to achieve it results in horrible deaths to thousands of people.

>kulaks
>people