What are some books that will make me value women as human beings?

What a lovely race of people

Who?

and then only a few years later you realize that it was this kind of oversensitive perception und overadjusted behavior towars her that really drove her away and then you go on facebook and see that she's not so hot anymore and has gotten at least a little fat so you just think to yourself everything went better than expected although the occasional woman-hate thread on Veeky Forums is as tasty as ever

Holy shit is that statue wearing 2 more statues?

One day I'll be happy too.

Lolita

angl*s

...

Madame Bovary

Am I wrong to think that 99% of people like this are the way they are because they had bad relationships with their mothers? I don't mean in a Freudian sense

This. I often wonder if all the misogynists on this site all have absolutely shit-tier mothers (and aunts, grandmothers, sisters etc). It's the only way their beliefs make sense to me.

Of course, the alternative is that they're memeing. That probably accounts for at least 75% of it.

This is oversimplifying.

Just because you have a bad relationship with your father, for instance, does not mean you will form a bad opinion of men in general. I would guess that people who have bad parents are actually more likely to see a contrast between people who resemble their parents and people who don't. People who are closer to their parents tend to be more wary of others, strangers for instance, whereas people with bad parents tend to leave home and explore, finding themselves more at home with other people.

Your relationship to your mother has a much more broad effect on you, it is not just about women. You probably don't really make a distinction between men and women for a long time; think of yourself as a child, you might have learned that the men in your life were more stern and the women more friendly or playful, but even then you were probably not connecting these impressions to gender. Rather, you associated gentleness with "Grandmother" and maybe seriousness with "Grandfather" but you did not yet associate Grandmother with "women", for you had not thoroughly investigated this category at such a young age.

Now, this is not to say that your relationships with your family will have an effect on how you deal with others, and how you approach your first love and so forth; they certainly will, but it is not as simple as saying a bad relationship with a mother equals a bad relationship with women. If all the women in your life are bad, then yes, you might end up coming to the conclusion that women in general having something wrong with them.

But you have to ask yourself: do any of my male friends wear makeup and/or have a physical attraction to me?

You would say, Of course not! If they did I would not be friends with them, because my friendship revolves around different things, and them wearing makeup or finding me physically attractive would detract from that.

Now then, how could you be friends with a woman, given that most women wear makeup and tend to have physical attractions for men? This is surely not something you can identify with, so how can you say that this is a friendship, if this person (were they a male) would not meet the conditions you have for all the people you consider friends?

Clearly, women are something very strange, and not at all like men. This is not to say that we have to treat them badly, but clearly women think differently from men, if they are not ashamed of wearing makeup, or being physically attracted to males.

I do not condone misogyny, but for me it is easy to see why you would not want to be friends with a woman. What male friend of yours wears high heels? How could you take seriously--as a friend--a thing which wears high heels and carries around a purse? Answer me this.

Narrow thinking. Sexual energy and attraction exists within most everyone. You dehumanize those who could potentially be interested in you?

You could have male friends deeply in the closet. You would cast them off if you found out one was attracted to men? Even in a scenario where you were not a secret object of same sex affection, you just know he's gay.

>Just because you have a bad relationship with your father, for instance, does not mean you will form a bad opinion of men in general
Of course not. You have it the wrong way round.

The point is that if your father -isn't- a complete bastard, you're unlikely to end up thinking all men are complete bastards, simply because you know at least one man isn't.

Yet there seem to be plenty of anons voicing similarly extreme views about women. Assuming they genuinely hold those views, it seems logical that they can never have encountered a woman they didn't hate.

Therefore they must have shitty relationships with their mother.

If it helps, just consider it logically:

A: I hate all women
B: I don't hate my mother

Both of these can't be true.

I would hone in on the relationship a person has to that attraction. If a person had attractions to men, that would not necessarily be grounds for casting them out of friendship. What would be grounds for it would be if they were not ashamed of those attractions, which most women are not. I could not be friends with a shameless person.

Then why aren't there at least an equal amount of man-hating anons who had shitty fathers and should therefore hate men? Or are you saying that all the anons here had good fathers (since they don't hate men) and horrible mothers (since they hate women, according to you)?

As a side note to :
I am not merely prejudiced against homosexuals, since I also think physical attraction to women is worthy of shame, though it is more understandable.

Bukowski's "Women"
Brett Easton Ellis' "American Psycho"
Jun'ichirō Tanizaki - "Naomi"
Arthur Schopenhauer - "On Women"
Marilyn Manson - "Long hard road out of Hell"

You'll be an ally in no time!

Clearly you have some kind of issue with sex/attraction in general.

>Then why aren't there at least an equal amount of man-hating anons who had shitty fathers and should therefore hate men?
Que? You're still thinking of this backwards, despite me being as clear as I thought it was possible to be.

I'm NOT saying that the reason they are misogynists is because they had bad mothers.

I'm saying that their misogyny is (apparently) so extreme ("I hate all women") that logically they must hate their mothers, because mothers are obviously a subset of 'all women'. Anons who say "I hate all women" therefore either (a) don't really mean it, or (b) have a terrible relationship with their mothers.

I say absolutely nothing about the -cause- of their misogyny.

I'm also not talking about "all the anons here". No idea where you got that from. I'm an user and my mother is pretty cool.

Incidentally, anons saying "I hate all men" would obviously be even weirder, since most of the anons here are men. They'd therefore need to hate themselves as well as their fathers and every other man. But that's by the by since I'm absolutely not asserting a causal relationship between (a) having a shit parent, and (b) hating all humans of that parent's gender.

Valuing them as human beings? Why would you want to do that?

A beautiful painting of a beautiful woman may make you value them as something special though. Maybe not "as human beings," but something else, maybe something more. Something worth protecting.

My Antonia and Kristin Lavransdatter

1,?,5,2,5,4,3

Yea. Valuing something as something else is definitely good. Moe is indeed the highest form of respecting women.

Mother's don't count as they treat you differently from other women due to maternal instincts

the demographics of this board precludes discussion of daughters, but I want mine to crush anyone who stands before them.

Family>awful gender discussions

Please seek professional help. You do not have to be this way.

The Lady: Studies of Certain Significant Phases of Her History
The Myth of Matriarchal Prehistory: Why an Invented Past Will Not Give Women a Future
The Politically Incorrect Guide to Women, Sex and Feminism

Ok, I understand you better.

So what is the point of the argument: Misogynists hate all women and therefore must hate their mothers?

What seems to be saying is exactly what you say you are not arguing: that men are misogynists *because* they had bad relationships with their mothers.

Is this a woman making this comment? Do you ever feel strange about putting make up on your face? As in, a sudden realization of: wait, why am I doing this? I don't care about makeup! This is humiliating!

Have you ever had that?

Anything by de Sade.

Why'd you reply to me? My post is nothing like the others.

>poor judgment

I'm thinking it was indeed a woman.

You sound like a woman hater. Makeup is an intrinsic part of feminine beauty.

That's not what I was concerned about. I was asking, how you -feel- putting on makeup everyday? Do you ever think: "Hmmm, maybe putting on makeup is a waste of time and degrading because I am basically painting my face to give it a different shape in order to aggravate mens loins so that I might attract a mate and be impregnated and give birth to a slimy fleshling spawn."

Do you ever think this? Because that's what I would think if women suddenly started saying to me that makeup was a part of masculine beauty, and had to spend time coloring my lips a different color instead of reading Kant or Augustine or working a job or praying.

>I am basically painting my face to give it a different shape in order to aggravate mens loins so that I might attract a mate and be impregnated and give birth to a slimy fleshling spawn."
that is a good thing to desire

Putting on makeup makes them feel like women, something that our society today seems to have no real respect for anymore.

And here I rest my case, gentlemen. Women would rather serve as an incubator for worm babies than pursue intellectual refinement, and this is why I have nothing to say to them.

Hegel will make you realize all we are is a collective of ideas male or female.

Why should I have respect for someone who paints their lips red to let a bunch of sweaty, hairy males know she is in heat and ready to copulate?

If I was a woman I would feel humiliated walking around, having a bunch of primates want to violate my physical body and grunt on top of me. Disgusting, almost horrifying. What a lamentable existence that would be! A curse, in fact! But women apparently are not revolted by this, and in fact, seek to enhance their opportunities by accentuating those parts of themselves which men drool over, and this is supposed to make me feel empowered! What kind of lunatic thrives in such a state? I am glad I am a man and don't have to endure the disrespect of being treated like an object, having men stare at the meat on my hindquarters as I simply go in public, just out to grab a book or some chicken while I return to my studies at home, which are most important to me.

Your conception of both men and women seems condescending and inaccurate.

I am just a man who delights in studying and seeking God, and think copulation is actually disgusting and uncomfortable from an objective standpoint. It is only under the intoxication of lust that one would be able to find it palatable. A sober mind would not be enticed by the prospect of grinding one's genitalia against those of another person.

First, not all women are sirens, or harpies, like you suggest. The function of makeup is not as vulgar as your vulgar mind makes it sound.

But I don't blame you for your ignorance. Our media and modern news rackets have destroyed real femininity: the fine beauty of the mother and all her daintiness, loving, and fury. There is no place for it in modern society, and the sociopolitical reformations we have experienced over the past multiple centuries have done nothing but suppress it, to the point of near extinction.

Gone are the days when men and women were raised separately, and were raised strongly as opposites, and there were real men with real masculine integrity who desired real women with real feminine integrity. Democratized the entire affair has been, and what does that lead to? The utter consumption of the feminine by the masculine. We live in a hypermasculine society now. Women compete directly with men, and are forced to look down on their feminine traits, which prevent them from competing with men; men, meanwhile, have become lost in the bizarre ritual of chronic masturbation, with hardcore pornography fed to them on a daily basis, and have become increasingly homosexual as well, like yourself, because their constant self-absorption has consequently left them with a severe lack of integrity. This society we now live in, which fails to provide both men and women with the proper rites of passage that they used to experience, makes everyone overly exuberant about themselves, tyrannizing all forms of life in the process. Men don't want women anymore, they want other men. They don't respect femininity, they only respect themselves, masculinity, because they lack self-respect and project this onto a tyrannical mask that they wear. They are neurotic and they think all of life is war, not in the Heraclitean sense, but in a much more corrupt, diabolical, narcissistic sense.

The feminine was not always "lower" than the masculine: weaker, yes; but they used to be divided. In our society, strength and efficiency are all that count: the feminine is destined to die out in such a battlefield. And it is a tragedy. So much beauty has been lost.

...

>women powerful beauty grace feminine etc etc

She still had to lay on her back while a man grunted on top of her and spilled some fluid into a fleshy hole between her legs. Imagine how viscerally unsettling that would be. What does it say about women that they apparently consent to all this?

For a short read consider A Walk to Remember by Nicolas Sparks.

But be warned it may hurt your very soul.

Imagine if that were your daughter or sister. How would you feel looking at that picture? Why would you be painting that picture? Now why is it different if it is someone else's daughter or sister?

Women are barely conscious, never mind humanity.

>She still had to lay on her back while a man grunted on top of her and spilled some fluid into a fleshy hole between her legs.
The eye that sees ugliness is alone ugly.

>Imagine how viscerally unsettling that would be.
The feminine doesn't find it unsettling. It finds it fufilling. That's why it is opposite of the masculine. The masculine does not understand it: but only the ignoble masculine disrespects it, and the homosexual masculine dislikes it.

>How would you feel looking at that picture?
Proud to have such a beautiful specimen in my bloodline and proud that she found a man with good taste, healthy desires and artistic talent.

I think I get it now. You are a closet crossdresser or have transgender feelings and are deeply ashamed of this. It's okay. Accept your proclivities. There are many accepting communities out there for you.

Because you too should seek help. If you cannot understand women as human beings you will never be a fully realized human being yourself.

Understanding =/= valuing

He's trying to apply a rigourous standard of logic to what amounts to anons letting off steam online. Misogynists needn't necessarily hate their mothers and when they make statements like 'I hate all women' they are clearly being hyperbolic. The user you're replying to can't seem to see that.

Oh, your bloodline, eh? So this thought actually runs through your head: "What a great bloodline I have, much better than all the other bloodlines out there."

And this gives you pride? For what? Something you had nothing to do with? Your genes which you did not create? You are saying: I am proud of the product of my genes and their ability turn raw digested food into this fine specimen of flesh!

And this man you speak of, he's going to make your bloodline even better, and what a fine bloodline it will be, and all your future descendants will look upon themselves and think, what a great bloodline this is, and so forth?

Have you considered, -really- why you are so enamored with the human form? What is it, -really- that you see in it that strikes you so? Have you ever experienced the opposite? Have you ever looked at a foot and thought, "Well, that's really a strange looking thing, rather bizarre if you look at it for too long" or "Why am I enticed by woman's buttocks? Am I really not that far removed from a baboon? Will the pursuit of trying to grasp the essence of these buttocks really lead to a fulfilling life?"

Another womanly retort. This is what always happens when I try to explain anything to women, they just make patronizing, snarky remarks in hopes that they'll appear to have won the argument.

Meant to post all this together.
All of you should try and get out of your bedrooms and actually interact with people. If you are not just larping as people with crippling emotional problems (primarily the sex-hating user), then you must be aware at some level of how miserably unadjusted you are to real life. If you are larping, please stop shitting up the board. In either case, you do not need to act this way. Please seek help, either professionally or through fostering friendships with well-adjusted normal people. You do not have to continue in this state. Maybe take the time to talk with an actual human woman. Put aside your neuroses momentarily and try to see your grotesque mental state for what it is.

>The masculine does not understand it
I wouldn't say that men don't understand it. The feminine is the counter to the masculine, and the each call the other into being. I feel most masculine around feminine women and, presumably, vice versa.

Thank you for caring, user.

Why is it that finding sex repugnant means I have mental problems? I do not mean to say that I do not feel lust, I mean, when I am in a sober state of mind, I have no interest in women or sex, and find the former rather childish and unintellectual, an the latter an ultimately fruitless endeavor as far as my own individual life and spiritual development are concerned.

I wont be able to convince you that I'm not a woman, but if you always assume that anything positive towards women is written by one, that's a really easy way to never engage with the argument.
>women and their opinions are shit
>x argument is in favor of women
>x must have been written been written by a woman
>x is shit
You see how that's stupid?

You're going to great effort to make things seem as ugly as possible. Also, just because the user explains the details behind his thoughts and emotions that doesn't mean they're consciously thought out in the moment. Concern for your own bloodline would be prioritising your own children over a stranger. There's nothing naive or primitive about that.

Why would one want to be adjusted to this society? Better to burn it all down and build something better

i think you're just repressed. more power to you i guess.

but sex is a normal part of life. everything that lives today got here though that. for most of our history its been a primary concern. to find it repugnant is to find being human repugnant, which i dont think ill ever understand.

yeah theyre ugly but shes not bad. good facial features just weird chin/hair

Evolutionary psychology and The Bible.

I will sum it up for you though. It's not women's fault that they are attracted to what they are. However their desire is largely (but not completely) plastic in the sense that they will be attracted to "top" men, regardless of what those men are qualitatively, as long as they occupy a high position in the hierarchy.

WHO occupies the high position in the hierarchy is however determined by men. Therefore if what we value as a society is money, commodities, and psychopathic individuals who are more likely to obtain those by ignoring moral convention, then that is our fault collectively as a society.

To normalize female behavior, men should take control of society and seek to normalize it. But most men are too busy sucking Cristiano Ronaldo's cock or cheering on psychopaths who transgress all virtue in order to achieve money and power. Because most men would quite enjoy being in that position themselves and like the American Dream, think that it's just a matter of time until they themselves achieve it.

Psychopats should be ostricized from society and all of its functions, their social value should be that of a worm. But because most of population today is rotten at the core, that will never happen. There is nobody who can ostracize anti-social behavior because nobody is interested in living a life of virtue anymore and those who are, are ironically themselves ostracized. So in our society there is no role for the "virtous sage" anymore which leaves nobody that would ward off degenerate behavior. There is no father-figure, no old man with wisdom, no priest, nobody who has the authority to say that some behavior is wrong. And the root of the problem lies in the rejection of God which has brought forth all of this.

Sounds to me like you are attempting to make sex and women repugnant because you are bitter that women have never shown interest in you. Because of this you attempt to turn them into inhuman objects of revulsion. This is a mentally unhealthy way of dealing with these issues. You need to work through these things and realize that human sexuality is a natural and enjoyable part of living, and that women are just as complex and intelligent (or not) as men, though often differently socialized.

you cant be a pious and genuine christian with so much bitterness user sorry

What does this even mean? Excrement is a normal part of life. Rape is too, statistically speaking. So was cholera and such.

God must have wanted to be rejected

yea both you and i know that's a false equivalence.

sex is a very basic expression between human beings. our relatives in the bonobo world practically use it as a greeting.

its fine if you dont want to take part in it but you should understand that it comes as natural as language.

Psychopaths are the only gift to civilisation that humanity have produced. All religion and government find their origin in psychopathy.

Enjoy your slave mentality and remember what type of person created for you and why....

Your "relatives in the bonobo" eat their own shit. It's not only a legitimate equivalency, but a material one too.

>A sober mind would not be enticed by the prospect of grinding one's genitalia against those of another person.

The force of this fedora tip registered on the Richter scale

>Baby's first Nietzsche

>Your "relatives in the bonobo" eat their own shit
no that's fairly rare

...

Humanity is repugnant

why is this neoliberal garbage on Veeky Forums. stop your fascist shit with "respecting women" and "adjusting to society".

what about gay men lusting after you?

>And this gives you pride? For what? Something you had nothing to do with? Your genes which you did not create?
Why should I not be proud to have great blood in me? Why should I not be proud to be who I am?

Why can this pride not exist alongside the pride from one's actions? Pride in one's family is where the daring to take great action that you will be proud of too starts.

You have this whole affair backwards. Love for the spirit is corrupted in bodies where love for the body is lacking.

fgt

read The Face of Another

Brilliant thread lads, havent laughed this hard in a while

this

Can we just be honest about how shallow nearly all women are? I mean they lack that perhaps slightly autistic drive to have a real passion or interest in something; well not all, I'm not try to be mean it makes me really depressed actually. Though I think they make up for it by how kind they are, and you know that means a lot to me, even little things like her crying during a movie really shows a sweet soft empathy and I just want to hold that or when they get all excited about pretty stupid stuff I love to see her eyes light up or how she walks differently in a good mood and acts all silly
Forgot where I was going with this, but if you hate all women that can only be indictative of projected self hate, really I understand, because they represent all your shortcomings or physical flaws, but then they bring into being from a look or the general futility of even talking to them. There is also a weird dynamic around sex and promiscuity that I feel as well and is all over this thread, that's harder to explain though, but it is interesting

Look no further, brudah!
Daughter of the Forest!
(It is the first book of the trilogy.)
It is about Sorcha, a daughter of a viking during the viking invasions of the 7 kingdoms of Britain.
It is a really good historical trilogy.

That’s one hell of a middle-part.

>shallow
youtube.com/watch?v=XnbCSboujF4

The average woman is shallow, but so is the average man.
But I agree, I like to have a pet girl too.
I like to watch girls being cute and doing cute stuff, as long as it isn't exaggerated.
I also like about girls being like dogs who want to be with you and dig into your interests.

They have a passion for social interaction. Is that not valid?

Well not really, and they kind of tie together, like on a hike or something when you end up talking for a couple hours those kind of girls just don't cut it, because they don't care, and I want them to