Tolkien is the Homer of the modern age. It's ridiculous that LotR is often written off as a "good story" and nothing more, like a Dumas novel. If Homer wrote The Odyssey today I'm sure it would receive the same treatment. Prove me wrong.
Tolkien is the Homer of the modern age...
Noah Green
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Levi James
"homer" is just shorthand for a multi-generational tradition of illiterate bards singing about the deeds of legendary figures at the courts of aristocrats who claimed to be descendants of the same heroes. i don't see what the relationship to tolkien would be. not to mention that the odyssey was in fact received poorly in the ancient world, considered just a fanciful adventure tale that didn't approach the greatness of the illiad, and routinely attributed either to an inferior later imitator or the same author but suffering from senility. in short i don't think you even know what point you're trying to make. what does it mean to be a homer?
Landon Clark
This is a common thing these days. I think a sharp enough historian could pinpoint the exact year that good work ceased to be considered essential classics.
It reminds me of a Charles Manson line, where he asserts that he would have been revered like Jesus if he had been active in those days instead of the 1960s.
Brody Bennett
My professor of Homeric Studies, who helped Anthony Verity with his translation of the Iliad for Oxford classics, absolutely loves LOTR. Studying Homer gave me a whole new appreciation for what Tolkien accomplished.
Ian Cook
Yes, I remember you posted in my old Tolkien thread. Very interesting, thanks for reminding me.
Ian Hughes
I think part of the difference between then and now, is that back then more people believed in the fantastical. In an Enlightened world a story like LotR will naturally be less affecting.
Luis Diaz
i think a sharp enough historian would tell you that inane counterfactuals are not a sound basis for reasoning. if charlie manson was born in first century judea then he wouldn't have been charlie manson.
David Price
Could you link me to the archive of that thread?
Ayden Diaz
>I think part of the difference between then and now, is that back then more people believed in the fantastical
Absolutely not true, you have no idea what you're talking about. Both Greek and Roman responses to Homer make it clear that no one believed it was a literal account of events. The fantastical has nothing to do with it and is purely incidental - the beautiful verse, the variety of literary techniques, the depth of the themes, these are what set works like the Iliad apart.
Elijah Roberts
That depends on whether you believe Manson's mental state was induced by society or illness. I'm inclined to believe that if even a bit of the latter were true then the culture of the time would have produced in him an equally interesting character.
Adrian Murphy
Here: warosu.org
I love Tolkien and I'd like to see his critical and academic appreciation grow so I shitpost about him every once in a while on here.
Henry Hall
>you have no idea what you're talking about
Big if true
Kevin Myers
>I'm inclined to believe
you can come up with all sorts of imaginary mansons having adventures through time but none of it has any bearing on actual manson or his actual time. it's entertaining but meaningless and so is this "homer would get bad reviews today" wankery.
Brody Russell
>homer would get bad reviews today
homer does get bad reviews today
Brandon Bell
>"homer would get bad reviews today"
No one said this.
Liam Phillips
>implying any of the fat hobbits or retarded orcs are at least as complex characters as achilles' turd
>impying that a childlike retelling of germanic and norse folklore is good
>"B..but my worldbuilding!"
Fuck off with your shitty black and white worldbuilding. I shat better maps than Middle Earth.
Connor Harris
Homer didn’t write fiction.
Parker Jenkins
Neither did Tolkien.
Evan Collins
In your own words, if Homer didn't write fiction, what did he (or "they") write?
Andrew Watson
a funny combo. but you're both just being pedantic for no good reason. the point is that op is trying to equate tolkien with homer without seriously engaging with either, relying purely on scenarios he arbitrarily imagines, like "x would get the reception of y". i choose to imagine that shakespeare would get a bad metactritic in ancient greece (which i choose to imagine having metacritic). it's meaningless.
Parker Russell
Youre being pedantic as well though
Carter Anderson
different user, but he/they wrote/improvised a retelling of myth. and before you ask, myth is not the same thing as fiction because society does not treat it the same way. the greeks wouldn't settle diplomatic disputes by referencing the mythical past as described by homer if they considered it to be simply fiction.
Thomas Morales
okay.
Hudson Watson
So are you saying that this is kind of true after all?
John Martinez
Yes it's vastly underrated, people hate it here only because it's popular.
It's like how a 7 year old can enjoy the Simpsons, does it mean that it is just a plain tv-show for kids? No, it's probably the best modern comedy there is, the kids that are probably watching it for different reasons than the adult.
Daniel Stewart
Don't you have an imaginary language to learn?
Cameron Sanchez
well i'd strongly disagree with the idea that people no longer believe in the fantastical, the fantasies are just different. it's not a question of the capacity for fantasy, it's just that you're comparing the founding myth of a culture with a novel some people like. in an extremely rough sense our homer is the bible, not fucking tolkien (or, actually, our homer is just homer and comparing anything else to it requires you to ignore so much context it becomes kind of a pointless exercise).