What can I read to understand feminism...

Don't bother, It is impossible to understand why people subscribe to identity politics or maybe not, it probably has something to do with tribalism and how much we have been forced out of collective ideologies

>I'm starting to think that the bad phenomena we call 'identity politics' are perversions of a good impulse.
Yeah, you might wanna go very far back then. Certainly pre-Bouvier, maybe even pre 1900's.

My twitter desu.

Why not start with material that represents what feminism has fought for in the last century? For example, Rainbow by Mao Dun gave me a grasp of what some women regularly dealt with, and what continues to this day.

>Don't bother, It is impossible to understand why people subscribe to identity politics
Is it, though? I think the appeal is pretty plain and obvious. It's the tribalism you've mentioned, but also this phenomenal shielding effect that comes with thinking of yourself purely as a representative of a(n oppressed) group rather than as an individual. Suddenly, the very notion of a "personal shortcoming" dissipates and is replaced by an ever absolving victim, even martyr complex. Nothing has to ever be your fault as an individual once you've fully succumbed to the collective.

I liken some of the more entrenched ones to those people who descend into crippling delusions about gangstalking and the like, where you can't look at the world outside the framework of grand-scale conspiracy against and systemic persecution of you, and it's not even your fault. It's merely because you belong to this beautiful, beautiful identity group of eternal victims.

just read studies about human evolutionary biology and sexual selection, feminism is a strategy to insure the long term dominance of the female sex in the face of looming male replacement of their whole function with artificial insemination. Women cannot cognitively compare to males and are threatened by the growth of technology, therefore hijacking social trust mechanisms and using them against the current regime is the only power play they have to avoid obsolescence and culling. Its a war, nature is a state of constant conflict and we are, each of us, set in opposition against one another eternally. You are a meat suit for genes and maybe patterns of biological behavior but you are not at all an agent and we are none of us “in this together.” Social institutes exist because of converging evolutionary strategies they have nothing to do with morality or transcendent values. Women are threatened, so they react like lunatics just as any other animal would if it could sense impending danger. The strongest advocates against prostitution are women. The reason you have cam girls who refuse to have actual sex with incels instead of brothels is because the moment sex is separated functionally from courtship, not love or mating, but from the need to acquire a females attention, that’s it. Men will just switch strategies all at once, bye bye coercion with pussy.

Women In Christ

Did you ever think that women might want to be in a relationship with someone who can act like an actual human being instead of someone who can't think about anything except in how it affects how much pussy he will be getting? And no judgement because I have definitely been in some dark places in my life

start with the greeks

Particularly Aristotle. He had very progressive views when it came to women.

people don’t have intentions and there’s no such thing as the kind of platonic ideals that we could possibly strive towards. women evaluate men based on genetic quality and bio-social rank against other females mates and the available men in their environment. All human behavior is reducible to the mechanics of large physical systems like the biosphere and neural-genetic correlates. there is no reason to psychologize a woman’s mating habits when they can be mapped near perfectly with an understanding of cybernetics and biology, genetics, mathematics etc.
>how much pussy he can get
men are always attempting to maximize the fitness of their offspring and their own genetics, so its normal for high statua males to be poon hounds and low status males to be sputtering messes who are desperate to cum into anything decent looking. Denying this is just being blind to scientific fact.
>no judgement
i don’t feel judgement because i don’t see you as at my level of fitness nor as something that will offer me any benefits to my well being as an organism, by all means judge away

Yikes

This is why the Catholic Church cares about heresy, if you believe the wrong thing you can get FUCKED, even if it's very close to correct and has much predictive power

im talking about the Odyssey. women should desire to be strong but still intently loyal to their husbands.

but also show at the same time that there are also women out there who desire to trick you and seduce you.

Ignore all of these basement dwelling tendies gobbling faggots. Read Beauvoir, Kristeva, and Cixous.

>This
I also just finished Jocasta's children, from Christiane Olivier. I'd say it's very approachable for someone with only little background in psychoanalysis, and boy does it shed some much needed light on the psycho-social roots of feminism. It also explains this whole thread desu.

>Beauvoir

the scum manifesto is good
if you really want to understand the current manifestation of 'feminism', i sincerely recommend getting a lobotomy

lol what is there to understand

"ugh, men"

"why can't things be equal? not like garbage men that's gross but like CEOs and stuff"

Ignorance really is bliss
>lol

to understand modern feminism you need to begin with german idealism

follow that through its appropriation into american transcendentalism

then follow that through american pragmatism and the early 20th century americanization of marxism

only then will the true antinomean abstractions of modern feminism be made totally clear

Source on where she actually advocates this

OP, feminism isn't a coherent ideology. This is not to say that it's worthless, but that it's impossible to point to one thing and say "this is feminism" because chances are there are vast numbers of self-identified feminists who disagree. Most feminism isn't actually "man-hating." I would honestly not start out with explicitly ideological works, and instead just seek out more books written by women that you think would interest you. After a while, you will probably begin to see why feminism has been important to many women without being immediately immersed in feminist theory that (at this point) you will probably have been primed to read the wrong way. Don't try to make yourself change your mind about anything, just look keep an out for other perspectives that you don't think you'd mind reading and take it from there.

Mating strategies (and life strategies in general) are context-dependent for humans, as they are for many other animals. This is some paleo-evangelist tier understanding of science. If you actually want to learn about the subject I recommend Sexual Selection and the Origins of Human Mating Systems by Alan Dixon, a respected primatologist.

Oops, *just keep a look out

In response to the case of David Reimer in Undoing Gender, Butler basically responds by claiming his suicide wasn't the result of being forced to transition as a child, rather it was the fault of society for its strict definitions of gender that caused him psychological issues that led to his suicide.
In other words she couldn't accept the fact that a person couldn't live with their identity being toyed like that, so she does the classic feminist move of blaming society.

IIRC she builds most of her work on Lacan, so OP should only read her they're familiar with him.

Harriet Bradley, Gender
Betty Friedan, The Feminine Mystique
Judith Butler, Gender Trouble: Feminism and The Subversion of Identity

Is there a feminist that argues that women are relatively inferior to men, but that societies have tended to exaggerate this inferiority, and that the goal of feminism to protect women's rights while maintaining their natural subordination to men?

i.e. is there a feminist that understands femininity?

feminism is in the air we breathe you don't have to read anything more than the crap popular culture and the education system forcefeeds us every day

Her Body and other Parties is more about undersranding what it's like to be a woman. That shit was not an easy read.

King Kong Theory

Not OP, but what should I read to understand third wave feminism my friends?
Should I read that "Women, race and class" if I dont mistake the books name?

Just say "yaaah gurl", retard. At the end of the day she would bet to suck you'r dick and ask to treat her like a slut.

this is part of what convinced me feminism could have very real points. these days to realistically find a girl who is wants to have a casual sexual relationship with you, you basically just need to have normal social skills and not be a creep. yet guys are driven insane by sexual anxiety

Do you have a quote? And do you honestly believe that society has a negligible effect on individuals?

Men and women have competing interests, but the main competition lies with males vs males and females vs females. Our goals should be to maximize the benefits of both. Though some people just won't sacrifice in order to cooperate.

My main issue with feminism still is that a lot of them seem to detest biology. I also think it is important that men don't stay behind; but they should be good men. And some feminists seem to pathologize certain male behaviour that I think is undeserving, at other times they are correct.

And lets not pretend that women are all angels. Like I said they compete with one and another, for the access of males.

The liberation of women is a good thing. I hope it continues. Hopefully we'll see more cooperation instead of the whole media outrage stuff. I'm so tired of it.

Feminism and movements like it are distilled ideological sociopathy. There's nothing to understand. They simply want to make as many people as miserable as they can, to kill as many people as possible, and to institute universal chaos, suffering, and death. That this sadism disguises itself as charity is a facade. Here's a hint: don't look at what people say. Look at what they do. Feminism isn't in any book. It's in the medical waste dumpsters. Their theory is subordinate to their praxis. They would say anything at all to unleash their desire to hurt humans. If hundreds of different Communist parties keep torturing huge masses of people to death, you can conclude that the praxis of Communism is torturing huge numbers of people to death. The theory is irrelevant.

I won't address their right wing counterparts (which are indistinguishable in practice), because I've never met any in real life and I'd be surprised to find out that they actually exist.

I had plenty of adherents to radical movements in my family and among my acquaintances at university, perhaps a few dozen. For example, my grandmother was a Communist. My mother was a feminist. My sister was a feminist and a Communist and a BLMer. My acquaintances at university were various shades of Communists and genderqueer whateverthefuckists. I use the past tense when talking about these people because they're either dead, mostly by their own hand, or their behavior forced me to cut off contact with them. I've observed hundreds more from afar.

These people are not normal. They are unanimously some combination of atheists, child abusers, borderline personality disorder, pornographers, child pornographers, prostitutes, sodomites, fetishist, cultists, new agers, Satanists, pathological liars, malignant narcissists, tattletales, false accusers, bloodthirsty, traitors, thiefs, drug addicts, gluttons, baby-murderers, schizophrenics, suicides, or plain old evil.

You could immediately tell just by looking at them, the way they dressed or styled their hair or wore makeup or piercings or tattoos, or even just the looks on their faces, in their eyes, that there was just something obviously off about them. They were either unhealthy thin or obese. Even their faces were asymmetrical or anaesthetic in an off-putting way. Even the music and movies and novels they professed to like were strikingly...garish. There was just something wrong with these people, something missing.

The fact is, wanting to use violence to overthrow democracy and seize the government through revolution to use the power of state violence to unleash terror against your opponents, to censor and silence, to imprison and kill, and utterly destroy anyone who disagrees with you, or anyone who merely belongs to a class of people you identify as enemies, all in order to carry out some sweeping transformation of society on a grand scale, is not normal. It's weird and creepy. That desire is the product of a damaged mind, a deformed personality, and a reprobate soul. Radicalism and rebelliousness are not healthy personality traits. Ordinary people do not deserve to be crushed under totalitarianism.

I believe that these people and others like them are taken with the same spirit that possessed Cain, the same spirit that was in Munster, and Moscow, and Berlin, and Jonestown. Furious that God does not favor the works of their own hearts, these demons seek to murder their own brothers.

Personally I'd rather stand by constitutionalism, democracy, parliamentarianism, individual liberty, heterosexuality, monarchy, normalcy, conservatism, and God. But I'm growing older and more peaceful by the day, and somedays I have the fleeting worry that all these freaks are going to try to start a war to destroy civilization and drag as many souls with them back down into Hell as possible, but then I remeber that they're irrelevant and impotent. Still, I feel fortunate not to live in the West.

...

Read a vindication of the rights of women OP, or some other really early stuff. In order to grasp why feminism is important you must see the full context of a world without it.

>tfw you are Lot living in Sodom before the Fire of Retribution

that's a very long ad-hom

fpbp

>my grandmother was a Communist. My mother was a feminist. My sister was a feminist and a Communist and a BLMer
Are you jewish?

You disavowed so many people, has it ever occured to you, that the problem is you?

I suugest just reading books by woman, like the Brontes, Rhys, Woolf, Valenzuale, Morrison, Jelinek, Wolf, etc.

I doubt that I'm what caused my mother to beat me when I was a child, or my grandmother to beat my father when he was a child. I doubt that I'm the reason my sister became a whore, a fetishist, and a pornographer. I also didn't cause my university friend to start dressing like a woman with a beard in public, or my other acquaintance to become a public BDSM fetishist and pornographer. No, I don't think the problem is me. These people were all so self absorbed that I didn't even register to them as anything more than an object. I doubt I had that much influence as to bear sole moral culpability for how they ended up. I learned to avoid these people and these types of people from the lived experience of them abusing and embarassing and betraying me, and if you weren't naive you'd listen to my advice and find some better friends for yourself while you're still young. Relationships are investments, investments of time, effort, emotions, energy, money, love, trust. You aren't obligated to invest in anyone you don't want to. Associating with these people was causing me huge amounts of distress and costing me other relationships. The traits I listed above should be huge red flags that your everything is better spent elsewhere. There are plenty of good people in the world. Not perfect, but good. Why waste your life on the bad? Choose carefully.

"Vindication of the Rights of Women" by Wollstonecraft

You sound super fun.

White Feminism lul,

Just give up op, if you aren't willing to consider that males deserve hate (which i garner from the phrase "I can't read things that are excessively male hating (even in jest))
then I don't think you'll get anything from reading anything feminist.

Also consider is different from accept the reality, try to play devil's advocate against yourself and see if you can justify killing all men or something, it'll help you grow as an intellect, you don't actually have to believe it.