Do you meditate? If so, what are the most profound insights/feelings you've ever had?

Do you meditate? If so, what are the most profound insights/feelings you've ever had?

Derealization stories and staring into the abyss are also welcome.

Other urls found in this thread:

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mindfulness
youtube.com/watch?v=P0FOMSA2ZrU
vipassana.com/meditation/mindfulness_in_plain_english_16.php
youtube.com/watch?v=UD4eXo8E9rc
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

Set an alarm on my phone so I didn't go for too long.

When it went off I genuinely felt like I was waking up for high school. Not just 'oh hey that sounds similar' but rather, I may as well have been waking up for school.

>21 btw

Tried it a few times. Waste of time.

Grasping the true weight of reality is more scary to me than "heavy"

I do it often. I don't think meditation is necessarily sitting with your legs crossed, not wearing deodorant and saying "HUMM" over and over, but merely relaxing your mind and letting your brain not have to deal with an exhausting workload
Example of what I'm talking about; some guy who thinks meditation should elevate you to a new level metaphyiscally within minutes. He probably thinks communism works and likes Zizek, stay clear from these types

You have to do it more than 'a few times' to even become marginally good at it (it's a skill, you need to practice it). Will take a while for it to alter the composition of your brain too, a month of daily sessions at least.

>This is where we find the difference between Zen proper and its Western version: the true greatness of Zen is that it cannot be reduced to an ‘inner journey’ into one’s ‘true Self’; the aim of Zen meditation is, on the contrary, a total voiding of the Self, the acceptance that there is no Self, no ‘inner truth’ to be discovered. This is why the authentic Zen masters are fully justified in interpreting the basic Zen message (liberation lies in losing one’s Self, in immediately uniting with the primordial Void) as identical to utter military fidelity, to immediately following orders and performing one’s duty without consideration for the Self and its interests – that is, in asserting that the standard antimilitaristic cliché about soldiers being drilled to attain the stain of mindless subordination and carry out orders like blind puppets, is identical to Zen Enlightenment. This is how Ishihara Shummyo made this point in almost Althusserian terms of an act of interpellation which grasps the subject directly, bypassing hysterical doubt or questioning:

>‘Zen is very particular about the need to stop one’s mind. As soon as a flintstone is struck, a spark bursts forth. There is not even the most momentary lapse of time between these two events. If ordered to face right, one simply faces right as quickly as a flash of lightning… if one’s name were called, for example, “Uemon,” one should simply answer “Yes,” and not stop to consider why one’s name was called… I believe that if one is called upon to die, one should not be the least bit agitated.’

>This is why the authentic Zen masters are fully justified in interpreting the basic Zen message (liberation lies in losing one’s Self, in immediately uniting with the primordial Void) as identical to utter military fidelity

But that's fucking wrong. That's a mystical path that should be overcome. I've got the feeling that Zizek is bringing Atman into Zen, when it doesn't have a place in it.

>“What is called the spirit of the void is where there is nothing. It is not included in man's knowledge. With your spirit settled, accumulate practice day by day, and hour by hour. Polish the twofold spirit heart and mind, and sharpen the twofold gaze perception and sight. When your spirit is not in the least clouded, when the clouds of bewilderment clear away, there is the true void. Until you realise the true Way, whether in life or in common sense, you may think that things are correct and in order. However, if we look at things objectively, from the viewpoint of laws of the world, we see various doctrines departing from the true Way. Know well this spirit, and with forthrightness as the foundation and the true spirit as the Way. Enact strategy broadly, correctly and openly. Then you will come to think of things in a wide sense and, taking the void as the Way, you will see the Way as void. In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existance, principle has existance, the Way has existance, spirit is void.”

Things of that nature, for me, can only come afterwards, not during. You try not to think in words when meditating. You're just priming the mind.
So none.

None. Just distancing from my senses in long sessions. Sensory experience becoming indecisive and blurred together. Quite peaceful.

I notice my brain pops up a lot of different ideas and memories that I wouldn't otherwise form or recall, likely an effect of the meditative state. I'm not actively engaging with new information and thoughts so my brain pulls them up from all over, in very associative ways too. It's almost like a mini-dream, actually, or at least the starting point of a dream, and without the poor recalling of it. Of course, I quickly stifle the mind wandering that this leads to, lest it destroy my meditative state. Mainly the benefits are that of focus. I've not delved into the types of meditation that aim for 'insights' however. I just do mindfulness, mostly for the cognitive/neurobiological benefits. It combined with less internet usage has been great for me.

I feel like it works too well, I just turn into a hovering imperturbable consciousness with no motivation to do anything but the bare minimum to keep the body going and end up staring at trees and shit like a hippie.

No but zizek is talking about "losing oneself" in the void, which shouldn't happen. Rather, you should identify yourself with the void, and realize that there is no fundamental difference between you and the void. Losing yourself in the void, or dissolving yourself, is mysticism.

>'No one meditates.' -Paul Valery
What's wrong with day dreaming? Give me the no holds barred AngloSaxon term (and what it stands for = freedom) over the thoroughly Latinate term (= measure, or dole) shot through with fake Eastern fake 'discipline' any freaking day of the week. How this word has gained the kind of prestige it has is baffling beyond measure! imho..

>I was meditating but I fell asleep

Does loss of ego not accompany self-realisation?
Isn' the state of self different before and after it occurs? Otherwise that would imply the ego is just some unimportant tool to be used.

Not arguing, but interested to hear your opinion.

what are the most profound insights you've ever had?
Traps are not gay.

Day dreaming is aimless thought, most meditation is meant to achieve the absence of thought. They're almost opposing concepts.

>If so, what are the most profound insights/feelings you've ever had?
You miss the point altogether. Regardless, Practical Shooting: Beyond Fundamentals by Brian Enos is unironically the best work I have ever seen on the topic of meditation. Yes, the overlaying text is focused on the use of firearms but his coverage of mindset in approaching problem solving is quite informative.

I've had a few insights while meditating. I'm not sure how profound they are, though.
The first was the feeling of being truly present. This has become a mainstay in my daily life now. Occasionally I'll find myself lost in my own thoughts, but it's easy to pull myself back into the moment again.
The second was realising my perception was not through my eyes alone. Obviously there are many parts of us that take in stimuli from the world around us, but really noticing it happening felt extremely strange at the start for me. It brought me to the realisation that there isn't really any one part of me that is "me". I understood the concept, but again it wasn't something I'd ever consciously experienced.
The third I think came as a result of many body scans, and was the constant awareness of my body. This has lead to real improvements in my life: My tremors are gone, I don't feel anxious any more, and it's much harder for someone to startle me. My fear of heights and fear of spiders are also completely gone. I'm not sure if this last one is as a result of being more aware of my body in and of itself or due to the practice coming together.

Yes, things get a bit freaky a couple of years in where you can reach all the way back into your muscle memory, constantly finding fields of energy to distract you in the body

>most meditation is meant to achieve the absence of thought.
This is lost on most people. They seem to be waiting for some deity to physically manifest itself and are then disappointed and confused when this fails to manifest. Not all action requires thought. Principally, many people use meditation to remove the clutter of thought as an impediment to action. Many top tier athletes are excellent at the art of meditation.

>The first was the feeling of being truly present.
This is difficult for a lot of people to grasp. The chains of thought that we often use to anchor ourselves bind us from the free act of doing. Meditation can restructure brain commands to allow for amygdala based responses to time-critical situations.

Sounds like pseudo-scientific bullshit

>Sounds like pseudo-scientific bullshit
Quite the contrary. We measure this on the range with timers. Research split times regarding practical shooting. Marc MacYoung also covers this in one of his books but I fail to recall which. Both his and Enos's works were based on scientific study done by neurologists. If my splits are faster or if my movements are smoother due to limiting unnecessary movement, then the mindset has induced a positive effect.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mindfulness
It literally isn't.

>Mindfulness
This is the key - differentiating between mindfulness and concentration. Concentration is limiting. Mindfulness allows you to be fully aware of your surroundings in the present tense.

Anyone have a link to a guide on how to properly meditate?

Not sures whats been happening tk me lately but in the waking state old old dreams are comming back to me constantly and I have been remembering my dreams very vividly.

Then meditation is a mental purgative? How is what is in other words auto-hypnosis good for (you)? Because like it or not meditation DOES begin with a conscious aim.
Allowing one's mind to wander, especially after a period of concentration, can be VERY beneficial with respect to whatever one's conscious aims REALLY are, i.e. as opposed to becoming the neural-mental likeness of an air-conditioner fan humming away on a hot summer day. I still think that the true difference between the two activities (or terms) is one of a prestige of terminology. If I say I'm going into the other room to meditate for the next 30 minutes my words are met with a kind of undue respect, whereas the very notion of day dreaming is going to be met with raised eyebrows.

>I have been remembering my dreams very vividly.
This is typically due to drifting into consciousness. An abrupt break from the unconscious severs the ties to the dreamworld.

I'm going to get shat on en masse for even suggesting this, but the headspace app is a solid choice if you're starting mindfulness, which again is ideal for starting off, because most other forms of meditation begin with "start to notice your breath, and the space you find yourself in when you're with your breathing is what allows for further improvement on other aspects of meditation. I don't know of any good reading material in terms of meditating, other than to suggest to you that the traditionally correct way to meditate is as follows:

Find a comfortable seating position, sit up straight, with your back supported if this is required. Close your eyes, but not completely, and fix your gaze on a space about 4 feet ahead of you. At this point your head should be level, neither looking up nor down. Begin to take notice of your breath moving in and out. You should be breathing in through your nose, and out through your mouth. If your mind wanders, that's okay, just take it back to your breath. An ideal trick for keeping notice of your breath is to keep your mind on the sensation of it passing the tip of your nose as it goes in, and the feeling on your lips as it goes out. Also, breathe from your abdomen rather than your chest. I hope this helps.

I meant to put a closing quotation mark after "start to notice your breath", by the way.

>If I say I'm going into the other room to meditate for the next 30 minutes my words are met with a kind of undue respect,
Too many people try to make meditation a separate activity from the rest of their lives. This appears to me to be pointless. You are spending time "meditating" when you could be applying the meditation to a tangible aspect of your life. Quoting Brian Enos: I don't meditate before I shoot. The shooting IS the meditation.

I try to meditate at least 30 minutes a day. My ultimate goal is to improve my focus and short term memory. I've come to understand meditation in quite a few different ways in the short time I've been doing which I would love to share with all of you. I think one of biggest reasons I have such an issue focusing is because of how pervasive instant gratification is in our culture. Of course everyone here knows this but I'm not sure its commonly understood how far this reaches. Do you ever pick up your phone or open your browser without KNOWING what you wanted to do? It's a pretty destructive habit that I've noticed among a lot of people. You open your phone and you press some buttons and then decide to check snapchat or something. What this does long term is condition you to not think about things in a constructive way.


Meditating I realized that as close as you can bring yourself to pure silence of mind is the closest to truth you can come. This is really the goal I have with meditation, to perceive silence and hold it as long as you can. All that noise in your head is analogues to your values, thoughts, and feelings of reality. But that silence is analogues to truth, what reality and the universe ACTUALLY sound like. Everyone who wants to explore the question of the nature of truth value needs to understand that all value and meaning is born out of this silence and nothingness of the universe.


The difficulty of holding this silence should really alarm anyone who tries to meditate. Your thoughts are firing automatic and have been firing automatic all day every day your entire life. To meditate is to put your mind in a place that it has never been. When you meditate you realize that thinking is so easy that so much of it is in this category, so one has to ask, where do I draw the line between automatic thoughts and things which I personally deliberated?

But they will come to me after Ive been awake for 6 hours, when Im at the gym or when Im at work.

Im not really sure whats happening

But all my dreams seem to all be connected, and follows a narrative, and just recently I have been able to connect the dots.

I did experience a 'yahweh' momment.

>I don't know of any good reading material in terms of meditating
On Learning Golf by Percy Boomer and Practical Shooting: Beyond Fundamentals by Brian Enos.
>Find a comfortable seating position,
>sit up straight, with your back supported if this is required.
>Close your eyes, but not completely,
This is the conventional meme. There is no need to separate meditation from activity.

>But they will come to me after Ive been awake for 6 hours
Yes, this is different. Keep notes, even including the feel of the situation - not just the physical aspects. Look for trends.

Yeah Im about to buy a journal

No ideas tho user?

>when lit meditates
youtube.com/watch?v=P0FOMSA2ZrU

>Yeah Im about to buy a journal
Start the notes on old pizza boxes NOW while the ideas are fresh. Put them in the fancy journal later. This is a major foible all of us have. Do not lose the thought to the pretense of needing a fancy purpose made journal.
>No ideas tho user?
Just the basic Freudian analysis that your subconscious is probably analyzing your conscious life in the the dreamscape. Don't sweat it - ride it. It is probably trying to solve a problem for you. Let it do its work but do not fail to watch for its results.

>Start the notes on old pizza boxes NOW while the ideas are fresh. Put them in the fancy journal later. This is a major foible all of us have. Do not lose the thought to the pretense of needing a fancy purpose made journal.
is stationary particularly rare in your part of the world?

Thing is user I can call on anydream Ive 'remembered' instantly.

But yeah that sounds right about my subconcious, I learned actualize my higher self.

Thank you I will start writing them down.

>is stationary particularly rare in your part of the world?
My point is only that if he does not have immediate access to proper tools, that he not lose the friable knowledge to time while he procrastinates. I have the appropriate tools.
>Yeah Im about to buy a journal
He appears to not be prepared to properly record his thoughts. I only advise that the thoughts themselves may be too valuable to risk losing and that he make use of the tools at hand rather than lose them.

>Thing is user I can call on anydream Ive 'remembered' instantly.
Call one today and record it. Call it again several months from now and record it again without referencing your notes. Compare the two records. The truth you seek may be present in the delta between the two.

I've only had one semi-insight, which is that reality functions outside of language. One time after meditating, instead of jumping right back into my thoughts, I walked around my room for a bit clear-headed, and everything felt much more alive. The truth is that we use our thoughts as a means of overcoming the wonderful and frightening nature of reality itself. Take even the most mundane thing, like a shirt, and try to understand both what it is and why it exists. You can't. There are many things a shirt can do, but ultimately this shirt and every one of its qualities lies beyond your comprehension. Like everything else, it just exists, independent of regard for your thoughts and feelings on it. Why do plants grow? Who knows? They just do. Isn't that crazy?

It's tough to explain this without sounding like a lame hippie, but the world exists completely apart from our interpretation of it, and we can slowly re-embrace it if we choose. Supposedly, there comes a time when you grasp the full intensity and scale of life outside of our thoughts, and it's mind-blowing.
That sounds like your concentration is overdeveloped in comparison to your mindfulness. Give this a read:
vipassana.com/meditation/mindfulness_in_plain_english_16.php
See above. Pic related should also help you with sitting.

Thank you. This is all good info

Here's another posture diagram illustrating how your energy should flow in a seated position. Do it like the figure on the right, where it's as if your head is being held up by a string, or your spine is like a tree trunk. Your back may hurt at first, and your legs may fall asleep, but your body will adjust with practice.

Thanks again, I'm excited to give this a go . Seems like a world of possibilities

>diagram illustrating how your energy should flow
I totally believe in the value of meditation but I laugh at the notion that it should be separated from the tangible aspects of our lives.

I was on acid once and got a distinct feeling of deja vu to the point where I was convinced I had done the exact same thing before and the friend I was with had somehow wiped my memory of it and was conducting some sort of experiment on me.

After I realized how fucking absurd this I couldn't help but laugh the most careless and hysterical I may yet have laughed in my life. I was overcome by a sense of linearity and completeness. Every feeling I will ever feel in life is something I have felt before. Education and experience have merely re-oriented my mind to understand these feelings differently as I've matured and grown. The fear I felt as a child looking down from the slide at the playground for the first time is the same fear I felt when I went to break up with my long-term girlfriend with whom I had talked seriously of marriage. You've felt and experienced everything on an emotional level before, and your search for "new" experiences is just a way of trying to trick your mind into the overwhelming sensation you felt the first time you experienced it.

Then I realized I had been in a port-a-potty for what seemed like an inordinate amount of time and walls were beginning to swirl. I made my way out with some difficulty and played guitar and drank beer for a few hours.

>He probably thinks communism works and likes Zizek, stay clear from these types
Jesus christ, man, what a stretch, how can you even tell that because some guy doesn't like to meditate? Could as well say he is a filthy capitalist or a fan of Lady Gaga or anything in the world.

No problem. Just don't get excited for a bunch of life-changing insights. Those are rare, and they show up in reverse proportion to the degree you want them. Just make sure you meditate daily and you're actively engaged (like focusing on your breath or whatever), and it'll all come in time.
That's not in some mystical/pseudoscientific sense - it's just the sensation of your breath as it travels up and down the spine. The purpose of that image is to show what it feels like when your body's in the correct sitting position, and not to reimagine meditation as some kind of transcendent exercise in itself. However, even though modern science makes a lot of these magical phenomena obsolete, it doesn't make all of the related teaching worthless. For instance, what would be considered a buildup of qi in the past may now be explained away as the nervous system adjusting to a different posture, but Tantric Buddhism says to accept this and move on either way, so what it is doesn't matter much in the end.

when did you have this insight? because i think i had it at the same time... collective unconscious?

I used to meditate for a time in my life, particularly because I started doing yoga and we had sessions of meditation afterwards. I think most of meditation occurs when you are not meditating. If you do it one time, it may feel like a waste or somewhat relaxing, but that's not it. If you do it over and over again, you get acquainted with that place and it follows you throughout the day more and more. That is, even if you are not empty headed or anything like that, in your ordinary life, you'll find it easier to let go of neurotic ideas about the world, clinging to impressions you made on others, or being too worried about what happened or what's to come.

I'm trying to come back at it just now and have meditated yesterday and today. It's not like before, I kept thinking a lot of things and getting distracted and bothered by it. I had a rough 2017 and I don't meditate since 2015. I expect meditation to help me out in the following months, but I know it takes practice and discipline.

I recommend to anyone to start short. 5-10 minutes a day. Do that for weeks, set an alarm clock if you want, don't stretch it indefinitely, let it end and even let yourself be bothered that it end (it helps in bringing meditation with you).

I love this video:
youtube.com/watch?v=UD4eXo8E9rc

Sure, daydreaming seems to help ambient thought to crystallise and surface, and allow abstract connections between ideas to form. No argument here. But meditation produces different effects - short-term amplified physical sensation, long-term stress reduction and increased awareness of emotional state. They are different things.

You're right that orientalism / mysticisism drives a lot of the prestige of meditation. I think there's a bigger point though - nearly everyone daydreams, driving a car, in bed, having a long bath. Meditation is a more artificial state and requires practice.

I haven't read this book, but flow-state and meditation seem like similar but different things. I'm a dancer, which might be analogous to shooting in the book, and I never find myself in an uninterrupted flow for anywhere longer than 10 minutes.

It also seems like the amount of sensory data in everyday life would prevent the deep focus on the body that you get from things like mindfulness of breath meditation.

welcome to the board of strawmen, faggot.

>You're right that orientalism / mysticisism drives a lot of the prestige of meditation.
Ask Dinesh D'Souza how he feels about that.
>I'm a dancer
Seriously, read Brian Enos. His joining of meditation with physical activity is golden. Anyone engaging in the act of physical violence should read Marc MacYoung's ideas on the topic.

I meditate when im at the gym, when Im lifting.

I have learned to "zone" out, and just be one with the action that is taking place.

Sometimes God shows me visions while I meditate

Sounds cool user.

>Dinesh D'Souza
Does he have a developed orientalism / meditation take? This might be a joke I don't get, isn't he just some outrage machine talking head?

>Seriously, read Brian Enos
I will!

>I have learned to "zone" out, and just be one with the action
People will call you a meathead tard but this is the root of much of Eastern meditation philosophy. Modern boutique meditation has been deprived of its roots and has subsequently withered, leaving its adherents wondering, "Am I doing it right?"

>Does he have a developed orientalism / meditation take?
He was born in India and his inherent perspective finds humor in those that glamorize his homeland from a point of abject ignorance.

Does anyone else here meditate with their eyes open? I tried both and I noticed that I'd almost fall asleep with my eyes closed.

>I will!
The text starts completely out of your context. Give it time. Make an attempt to understand our perspective from the shooting sports. By the time you get to page 13 he starts cutting to the core of the issue. Of course, you can gloss over the points that are directly attributable to us such as grip and stance, and you will have to extrapolate how all of his recommendations translate to dancing. If you are willing to do the work then the payoff will likely be waiting for you.

Yeah, Ive done my research.
I have trouble grasping the ideas behind the chakra system still, but I think they will be balanced if I just train mind/body/soul.

I know the Chakras are about the energy, and how it flows through you, and that it requires equal feminem and masculine energies to be utilized.

But Im not sure if Im missing anything.

>Does anyone else here meditate with their eyes open?
I use practical shooting as a meditative discipline so, yes, I keep my eyes open. The art is in finding mindfulness in what benefits you - not in wearing out the ass in a pair of yoga pants. Let meditation serve you. Do not become its slave.

>But Im not sure if Im missing anything.
IME, if it sounds legit then it is. On the other hand, that which upon inspection appears to be cockamamie also is. Follow your heart. There is nothing about this that is truly difficult to understand. Those who try to make it appear so are only trying to obfuscate the issue for profit.

t. joe rogan

>do you meditate?
>yeah i do stuff and like don't think about stuff brah :)

Nah I contemplate this stuff all the time.

>i do stuff and like don't think about stuff brah
Correct - we separate cogitative concentration with mindful focus. We remove the tumbrel of unnecessary thinking. The thinking is done before you step into Box A. Once the timer beeps, there is no time for cogitation. I know you are trolling but that does not stop you from being essentially correct.

That's exactly what it is to act according to one's nature in Daoism, though. And Buddhism is very explicit about merging your practice into everyday life. The idea that meditation occurs only on the cushion is more a Western thing than anything else.

It doesn't only occur on the cushion, but people who are scared of the cushion and claim their hobbies are meditation enough are suspicious.

>That's exactly what it is to act according to one's nature in Daoism, though.
That is what makes it such good bait. He reduced the principle concept to absurdity but maintained the general principal. This is an example of good bantz with a relatively well joined image that shows relation to the topic without confining his argument. Definitely 8/10 tier. Socrates would not praise this but he would gingerly smile at it.

>scared of the cushion
We just found little value. There is no fear of cushions on my part. I am sitting on a padded chair as I write this.
>claim their hobbies are meditation
That was not the point at all. We seek a meditative state within the activity. If the state is not achieved then we have failed and the numbers will illustrate this. Purely engaging in the physical act of a specific activity does not ensure success - not even sitting on a cushion.

Thanks friend.

I'd trust this perspective from someone who I knew had meditated formally for a decent length of time and knew the concepts. Normal flow-state is only similar to meditation.

I tried but it kept giving me seizures.

Serious question. What's the difference between total voiding of self and death. Would someone who fully achieves such a state ever even exit it?

How does one make realizations about the absence of the self and universal oneness when meditation is essentially avoiding thoughts? All the meditation guides I've seen have said to not let yourself think deeply, but to rather allow thoughts to wash over you, or pass by, without reacting to them. How can you make any realization at all like that?

There are different kinds of meditations that do different thinks for your mood, just like there are different kinds of physical exercises for your muscles. Some help you relax, some energize you, some make you more emotional, others less emotional.

What you describe, and what most of the posters in this thread are talking about, is mindfulness meditation. This is common to both Hindu and Buddhist dharmic traditions - but, importantly, is only considered useful in conjunction with concentration or one-pointedness. When you clear your mind of unnecessary thoughts, you can devote all your mental energy to a mantra or object in front of you until you "merge" with it. Meditations and yogas of this kind are an end to "samadhi" or "satori", the absorption into the Void.

The difficulty in discussing this is basically a translation issue, and also varies between dogmas. People try to spruce up eastern religion as being a """lifestyle""", but at the end of the day it's a religion like Islam and has just as many schisms and contradictions about the Void/The Clear Light, the bardo, the pure land, atman, buddha-nature etc., so the accuracy of your answer totally depends on what scripture or sutra you've been reading.

> That sounds like your concentration is overdeveloped in comparison to your mindfulness. Give this a read:
> vipassana.com/meditation/mindfulness_in_plain_english_16.php
Thanks buddhy