Essential Kissenger

The gallows.

>>I think he just loved America (and Israel) and hated commies.
does he really hate commies? he partnered up with china to balance against the soviet union. some of the books where he's mentioned seem to protray himself as "ideologically" neutral, and he acts with the goal of power balancing in mind, taking into account economics, geography, history, and whatever social factors besides capitalism vs communism ideology.

Start with 'A World Restored'
move on to 'Diplomacy'
next up read 'World Order'
finish with 'On China'

>In all honesty, what was his endgame?
american world domination

Thunderball

delusional retard

Fuck off, antirevolucionario piece of shit. Kissinger is one of the main reason why la revolucion was never successful anywhere. What did he save your country from? From people who were trying to help the poor? What a fucking hero. Kissinger is one of the major terrorists of recent history. Because of him millions of people have died. Kill yourself.

clean your room.

this

The idiot thinks that governments that tried to use taxes to invest in social programs and create a stronger and more efficient welfare state - democratically elected governments - would inevitably evolve into a "savage communism machine" where people would lose their freedom of expression, be thrown into jail and executed without due process of law.

What happened were military coups in several countries that implemented neoliberal measures (favoring the top 1% of society,making the rich and powerful even more rich and powerful), that institutionalized military corruption, strangled freedom of speech, threw them into jail and murdered thousands of people without due process of law.

That user is a retarded (actually extremelly naive), and Kissenger deserves to be seen by history with infamy and contempt.

Easter Sunday, 1985
Charles Martin, 1942
To take steps toward the reappearance alive of the disappeared is a subversive act,
and measures will be adopted to deal with it.
—General Oscar Mejia Victores,
President of Guatemala

In the Palace of the President this morning,
The General is gripped by the suspicion
That those who were disappeared will be returning
In a subversive act of resurrection.

Why do you worry? The disappeared can never
Be brought back from wherever they were taken;
The age of miracles is gone forever;
These are not sleeping, nor will they awaken.

And if some tell you Christ once reappeared
Alive, one Easter morning, that he was seen—
Give them the lie, for who today can find him?

He is perhaps with those who were disappeared,
Broken and killed, flung into some ravine
With his arms safely wired up behind him.

Like he wouldn't have sent your country to the dogs if it benefitted him

Fucking white "people"

Holy fucking shit how ignorant are you? Read up on some basic Chilean history please

>Kissinger is one of the main reason why la revolucion was never successful anywhere
This sounds like a complement user

>Read up on some basic Chilean history please

I know what kind of people you are. It's the same here in Brazil, the same delusional retards. Peoplerape your country and you thank them for that.

Here:

This guy gets it.

And by the way, is funny to see how "Christian" parties in Chile supported the military coup that killed thousands. Bunch of hypocrites.

>During its first year in office, the Allende Government achieved economic growth, reductions in inflation and unemployment, a redistribution of income, and an increase in consumption. The government also significantly increased salaries and wages, reduced taxes, and introduced free distribution of some items of prime necessity. Groups which had previously been excluded from the state labor insurance scheme (mainly the self-employed and small businessmen) were included for the first time, while pensions were increased for widows, invalids, orphans, and the elderly. The National Milk Plan affected 50% of Chilean children in 1970, providing 3,470,000 with half a litre of milk daily, free of charge.[9][10]

>The land-redistribution that Allende highlighted as one of the central policies of his government had already begun under his predecessor Eduardo Frei Montalva, who had expropriated between one-fifth and one-quarter of all properties liable to takeover.[2] The Allende government's intention was to appropriate all holdings of more than eighty basic irrigated hectares.[11] Allende also intended to improve the socio-economic welfare of Chile's poorest citizens; a key element was to provide employment, either in the new nationalized enterprises or on public works projects.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidency_of_Salvador_Allende

Chile? Yeah, agree. I don't know how successful his interventions were on other countries, but he did us good here.
t. Chilean thankful to based Kissinger

Allende was literally on the verge of turning the country into a dictatorship lmao

you must be from a rich family

>In his first year in office
The fact you fucking pseuds believe you have the right to call anyone out is hilarious to me. How about you read the rest of the fucking wikipedia article

You should start by reading what he did, it might enlighten you as to why you want to stay as far away as you can from this little gimp as you can.

And regarding this the slimy man - Kissinger - frantically tried to avoid any confrontation with Hitchens wherever he went, even going so far as to cancel his speeches or insidious "lectures" if he was in the near vicinity of the man.
He called him an anti-semite who critiqued him merely for being a jew if I recall correctly, which was evidently ridiculous, and ended up apologizing for it because he was fearful that if he would not, he would be dragged into court, which in turned would have created the possibility for certain documents to be subpoenaed.

There is a reason why he hasn't set foot in France anymore.

keep tellin yourself that if it makes you sleep at night.

"Oh my god,he wasevil,he was going to become a dictator in teh country. Better put a dictator in powerto stop the elected president becoming a dictator.

Oh my god, look how he is creating programs to help the poor and forgeting us noble and chrstian families. Thank god for the purges of our military leaders.They aremen of god"

Wake up.You people still suffer with poverty and inequality and your situation could be much better today had it not been for this fracture in your democracy.

Are you trolling? Allende fucked everything so badly that the congress declared his government unconstitutional. There was no democratic way out of that other than Allende resigning, which he wasn't going to.

Just to be clear, how rich is your family? What did your grandfather did, what was his profession?

Be completely honest.

This is embarrassing dude. Seriously. You linked to a fucking wikipedia article that,**** two subarticles down,*** talks about the exact thing that I am talking about.

His economic record sucked arse. most left wing economists acknowledge that Pinochet's reforms were a success

I'm not the Chilean. Dozens of unions groups and farmers were striking as well, not that it's relevant, because he was a soon to be socialist dictator

>hurr durr muh congress declared his government unconstitutional
They were literally USA's puppets pushing against la revolucion to maintain an American capitalist hegemony. Fuck those traitors.

lmao

Uhm, before the military coup took place, you do know they had to murder general René Schneider who opposed any sort of intervention by the military in the electoral process?
They (CIA. under pressure of Kissinger, without informing Congress) offered $50.000 to anyone who would murder the general, which was hard enough to make people do, seeing most military circles were staunch constitutionalists. Anyhow, they managed to convince General Viaux and a Valenzuela group to do him in and managed to do so with sterile - without a serial number - guns delivered to them by the CIA.

Besides, how insane do you have to be to say that it is excusable for a country to intervene in another sovereign country simply because you disagree with its economic reforms? Get real.

Honestly man I am happy to have a debate with you on this issue but first could you please read up on

-Chilean history
-The cold war
-International Relations
-Economics

Because fuckkkkkkkkking hell you are ignorant. I mean, yeah, no shit CIA was trying to influence the country, but so were the Soviets

to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars I might add

No, you are not. You didn't refute a single word I said, nor did I say that I am excluding the Soviets. If you spent a single second with your eyes open, though, you'd see this thread is about Kissinger.

I'm not quick to spout "fallacies!" but to resort to the cheapest of fallacies, merely saying "ur ignorant bruv!" is laughable.

What do you mean exactly? I acknowledged the CIA were actively influencing the Chilean right?? What other point did you have? Intervening in a soon to be dictatorship who was allied with the Soviets is bad? As I said, read up faggot.

Stop coming to Italy spic

You must be some kind of lunatic to think it is okay for another country, to surreptitiously intervene in another because you disagree with its current democratic leadership.
You do know that Allende was voted into power by the people, right? You do know, that a big contributor to his economic failing was in part due to the economic sabotage of your dear friend Kissinger, right?
Of course you don't.

Donald Kendall, the then-president of Pepsi Cola (which was stationed in Chile at the time), had given Nixon (a lawyer, then) his first corporate account when he joined John Mitchell's New York firm. Some days after Allende was elected, Nixon verbatim said:
"No concerned risks involved. No involvement of embassy. $10,000,000 available, more if necessary. Full-time job - best men we have... Make the economy scream. 48 hours for plan of action."
Now, if you are so delusional and insipid you think defending business interests by destroying an economy and democracy is okay, it's on you.

> because you disagree with its current democratic leadership.
But it wasn't. It was literally turning into a dictatorship. Read.

You use the word intervene as if they invaded. They didn't. They helped their side, just like the soviets helped the then government. Read up on the cold war.

>You do know, that a big contributor to his economic failing was in part due to the economic sabotage of your dear friend Kissinger, right?

No it wasn't. They massively overspent, stole land, nationalised industries, closed themselves off from the world. They had a recession before 1973, which is when everything began to happen.

I don't give a shit about this quote. This doesn't change shit, besides giving you a retarded boogeyman. One company can't change shit.

The Allende government was acting in a way that is counterintuitive to everything we know about economics. Stealing land hurts the economy. Forced nationalisations are bad. Spending money you don't have unnecessarily is bad.

The Soviet Union gave them *10 times that amount* in cash alone, not to mention the hundreds of millions of more in food, factories, other investments, etc.

>destroying an economy and democracy
ALLENDE WAS LITERALLY DEFYING THE CONSTITUTION AND THE COURTS WHILE CONTINUING TO STEAL LAND

>It was literally turning into a dictatorship.

So you purge a "soon to be" dictatorship with a real dictatorship?

This guy:

comes from a rich and deeply-"christian" family, I'm 100% sure

Anyway, Pinochet will go down in history as the criminal that he was (all the world was happy with his death, and some people said that it was "a bad day for teh demon").

Hope Kissenger suffers the same fate.

Kill yourself

Which transitioned into a healthy democracy? This is an irrelevant argument though since we're discussion kissinger

Be honest, I'm right about you and you know it.

I would rather kill you first, and I will be alive tosee this pieceof trash Kissenger enter darkness with shame sited upon his back

Who gives a fuck about Rodhesia nigger

This. If Kissinger and the CIA hadn't ruined Allende's government Chile would be a first world country now and an example to the rest of the world that la revolucion is possible. They not only killed millions of people but they also killed the world's future. Now we have to live in this fucking capitalist dystopia in which everything is a competence for making money. We have turned into robots. Fuck Kissinger, fuck Pinochet, and fuck every greedy piece of shit who made this capitalist world possible.

You keep incessantly spouting "read up on this, read up on that!" how about you explain as to why it was turning into a dictatorship?

It is incredibly tiring to speak to someone who will disregard the order of the president of the United States to his cabinet to sabotage a country, merely swatting it away as if it were a fly. It was an order from the president it was evidently executed.

It is clear to me you're an ideologue who needs to point fingers at someone's direction; as I mentioned in my previous post "in part due..". You might want to re-read my post.

Somehow, in that puzzling brain of yours, you think it is excusable to overthrow a government because you think it unconstitutional. The Chamber of Deputies of Chile Resolution of August 22, 1973, that everyone keeps talking about failed to achieve a 2/3rd majority in the Senate. You can keep spouting how Allende had Soviet-ties (undoubtedly he did), but to pretend that usurping the power of an elected president in favour for an authoritarian demagogue because he had better economic policies is bordering on insanity.

The only disagreement I had is on Kissinger dude

Are you Chilean? Are you a poorfag?

>people itt attributing morality to foreign policy

German, middle-class

See Seriously though. Why don't you just read the wikipedia article you linked to? It will explain it better than I will

>It is incredibly tiring to speak to someone who will disregard the order of the president of the United States to his cabinet to sabotage a country, merely swatting it away as if it were a fly. It was an order from the president it was evidently executed.

It wouldn't be tiring if you just looked at objective reality and acknowledged that I'm right about this. The cold war was defined by military powers indirectly intervening in other countries. That's just reality.

>but to pretend that usurping the power of an elected president in favour for an authoritarian demagogue because he had better economic policies is bordering on insanity.

This sentence doesn't work. Also this

If you make your fortune and fame with the suffering of others you are not an honorable man.

Stalin was a criminal; Mao was a criminal; the North Korean lords were/arecriminals. But the likes of Pinochet and Kissenger are also criminals, and I hope to see history give them their due.

True. Sadly the world is a fucked up place filled with people more interested in making some money than in helping society. At least Kissinger and Pinochet will be reminder as terrorists while every dreamer out there will remember Allende as a hero.

>If you make your fortune and fame with the suffering of others you are not an honorable man.
Literally every politician then huh

I'm not the user who linked to the wiki article. Either way, we clearly have a disagreement when it comes to foreign policy in general. If you cannot attribute any sort of moral judgement in regards to what an individual does to execute a specific foreign policy, everything falls flat. If you see the state as an entity in which individuals can never be complicit in what it does to other countries, naturally you shrug at the moral weight attached to decisions of individuals.

>The Chamber of Deputies of Chile Resolution of August 22, 1973, that everyone keeps talking about failed to achieve a 2/3rd majority in the Senate.

Moslty, yes.

But there is a difference of harvesting some bad results when you are trying your best to do a good job for all (Gandhi, for example) and consciously, surgically working to favor certain groups and people knowing that others will be arrested, killed, tortured and impoverished.

To be fair, Gandhi didn't give a shit about the Muslims and contributed hugely to the creation of Pakistan.

>>The Chamber of Deputies of Chile Resolution of August 22, 1973, that everyone keeps talking about failed to achieve a 2/3rd majority in the Senate.

">The (Allende) Government has seriously violated the Constitution.

The Resolution, approved by almost two-thirds of the members (63.3 percent), accused President Allende's administration of 20 concrete violations of the Constitution and national laws. These violations included: support of armed groups, illegal arrests, torture, muzzling the press, manipulating education, not allowing people to leave the country, confiscating private property, forming seditious organizations, and usurping powers belonging to the Judiciary, Congress, and the Treasury. The Resolution held that such acts were committed in a systematic manner, with the aim of installing in Chile "a totalitarian system".

It is an extraordinary fact that the Chamber's Resolution had been approved by all of the members from the Christian Democratic Party, the majority party whose undisputed leader was Senate President and former President of the Republic Eduardo Frei Montalva. Only three years earlier, on October 24, 1970, that same party had given all of its votes in order to elect Salvador Allende president in the Congress.

As it was, the opposition to President Allende won an absolute majority in the parliamentary elections of March 1973, winning almost two-thirds of the Chamber of Deputies. But the opposition had no such majority in the Senate."

"He wasn't a dictator violating the constitution because his party had 37% of the senate!!!"

Bra-fucking-vo

It is revealing to note the confusion about the meaning of "Rule of Law" reflected in Allende's response, since he declared that he would insist upon his illegal route since, "by means of the expression 'Rule of Law' is hidden a situation of economic and social injustice among Chileans that our people have rejected. They are trying to ignore that the Rule of Law can only fully exist in such measure as we can overcome the inequalities of a capitalist society."

>Nahhh, he ain't a dictator!!

world order and diplomacy are great books

cwporter.com/allende.htm

The facts therefore demonstrate that:

a) President Salvador Allende was primarily responsible for his own fall from power, having committed political suicide by declaring himself to be in rebellion against the Constitution of the Republic.

b) Eduardo Frei Montalva, then President of the Senate, was the preeminent leader of a civil resistence movement which concluded with the plea for the intervention of the Armed Forces.

c) The Armed Forces, in removing the Socialist-Communist government, obeyed a moral and political mandate given by the Chamber of Deputies, a chamber of the same Congress that in 1970 had elected Salvador Allende President of Chile.

Muh Kissinger tho

But the dream is not over. The capitalists won't win in the end. I know that for sure.

Not sure if irony or delusion

Why people dont just help building a mixed system, like the Nordic model?

I dont see neither neoliberal capitalism nor communism as good models for society. But:

>The capitalists won't win in the end. I know that for sure.

I think that this is possible only if capitalism collapses from the inside out, if the system end up incapable of sustaining itself.

I dont know how to implement the Nordic Moel to huge countries like China, Russia, Brazil, the US, India, etc., but if it could be done I guess the world would be a better place to live in.

Free healthcare, free education (even superior, university education), free acess to culture, labour law that protects the rights of the workers: all of that is necessery for an ideal society.

...

In many ways the nordic system is far more neoliberal than places like the US, UK, and Australia

Lower regulations, more business friendly, more protective of property rights. They have far less regulations protecting workers (though nearly every worker is in a union, so it balances out)

Thousands of what, people? There was no people, only reds and reds cannot be people.

excellent bait 9/10 “la revolucion” gives it away.

No, Kill YOURSELF

Isn't the nordic model going to shit other than in Norway where they are filthy rich because of the oil? Also, nordics working ethics made it possible in the first place. South americans are very lazy people.

...

commies are more human than the average /pol/ack.

>Besides, how insane do you have to be to say that it is excusable for a country to intervene in another sovereign country simply because you disagree with its economic reforms? Get real.
Communism on the continent is a threat to American society. Its presence alone is harmful enough to justify far more than what we did.

Nah. They're the same brand of autistic losers, it's just that /pol/ when push come to shove are nothing but larpers

Excellent bait

>people are against communism

Doesn't really surprise me. Americans are some of the most classcucked and ignorant people on this planet. Nuke.

Class consciousness is the only false consciousness even if capitalism is a trash syste.

Basically everyone on the planet is against communism

The desire to kill communists is integral to human nature

I'm not so sure if he's a troll. This is not the first time I see a thread with some leftist user talking about la revolucion.

>Class consciousness is false consciousness
Not a commie but this is retarded. Rich people act like a class all the time, if you're a worker you should do the same. It's simply a matter of self interest.

If you:

think that this:

is bait than you are a pathetic case of blindness, a spoiled man-child

I wonder what kind of books people like you read

I don't think someone could be so stupid and ignorant while being able to use a computer so I assumed it had to be bait

And it's in my self interest as a working class person to ensure that the working class, of which I belong and who are the most incompetent and backwards people on earth, should have as little control of the means of production as possible. I may not exactly be happy with the current ownership, but you're proposed alternative would not be good. There are several identities other than class which the advancement of their interests would be far more in my self-interest.

Furries are more human than both.

*throws you off helicopter

>conflating humanity with personhood
He never used the word human, user.

The problem is to confuse (or attempt to create an ideological confusion) a state of social well-being with "communism".

To say that protectionist labor laws, free education, and free health-care are the same as Stalin-style communism does make one eiher:

a) an ignorant

or

b) a hypocrite and manipulator

And it is surprising how large corporations and media groups can make the poor themselves - who would most benefit from a solid state of welfare - believe that supporting such policies they would make their country a Soviet Union.

>I don't think someone could be so stupid and ignorant while being able to use a computer

yet here you are

>being for communism

Ya, I’m sure those who had family disappeared by the Stasi are real classcucks.

But I'm not the one with the retarded views user. You don't even know what I believe. I just jokingly called this out as bait. Settle down kiddo

>doesn't understand that the working class' ultimate interest is to destroy itself as a class
read le capital my dude.

>You don't even know what I believe.

neoliberal?

What you are talking about isn't remotely relevant to this discussion.

>And it is surprising how large corporations and media groups can make the poor themselves - who would most benefit from a solid state of welfare - believe that supporting such policies they would make their country a Soviet Union.

Well yeah it's like when Democrats say that Trump legalising 1.8 million illegals is a step towards white supremacy. Their just trying to rile up the base. Yes it's dumb, but that's just what is needed with a dumb electorate