Why don't you guys just write code while also trying to write your novels or whatever?

>you can't have much dignity left if you post here
That's where you're wrong kiddo, I'm so (undeservedly) smug you wouldn't believe it.

I have considered this though, I have the technical skills to create a basic game. But I also hate the >vidya community with every ounce of my being and don't know if I want to interact with them even if I'm getting paid for it.

This is pretty gud
learnpythonthehardway.org
The author is actually a moron but he put together a nice tutorial.

That said I feel like I should warn you that I got good after spending several years autistically hiding in my room trying to program video games for 12 hours a day. It's not something you can pick up overnight.

Reminder that Houellebecq was a programmer.

Reminder that DFW would be a #coder if he was alive today.

>having dignity
>Wanting to create video games
choose one

I don't know how and don't own a computer
Sounds great though

I don't want to create video games anymore user, I got rid of all my """gaming""" stuff years ago

jesuis that's some shitty python code

I do physics research and code shit for that every day.
Almost all programming is derivative and uninteresting to anyone but the person making it.
CS majors thinking they're all god's gift to technology and saving the world because they know python are absolute retards.

>work

No thanks, I'm too patrician for that.

I'm planning to go to a selective bootcamp, make lots of money, and retire before 30 to work on my writing

are you going full jacob fisker m8?

Yes, absolutely. It's not hard for me to avoid spending money when all I really want are books, which I can steal on the internet.

>CS major
>Know python
We don't even learn python in uni mate, they teach this to first grade biology students

I do though

And what amazing research are you doing in physics? Researching a hypothetical subatomic that might not even exist?

go back to /g/ you autist. in 20 years all the code you've written will be gone and literature will still be here.

Thats not how coding works...

How do I get a coding job?

Coding is clearly a bubble. In 5 - 10 years there will be a huge influx of cheap coders chasing exacty what you're talking about. What do you think the point of all these low income coding programs are? Unless you're socially saavy enough to ascend into management, you're going to be fucked as a coder.

Not that guy and I low-key hate physics for appropriating my field (math), but doing research into the workings of physical reality is much more valuable than whatever stupid CRUD shit most CS grads end up making.

Nonlinear dynamics of living systems
>lul particles aren't relevant to my life, you nerd
The only reason you're capable of shitposting here is because of research on quantum mechanics that "pragmatists" like yourself called a waste of time you dense fuck

>you can work alone most of the time
no programmer who works on anything meaningful "works alone most of the time"

Nice. I'm a welfare leech myself instead of an early retirement type (makes more sense in my neck of the woods this way) but I do apply a lot of the frugal methods to make sure I'm living well within my means and have a good financial buffer.

Life gets really cosy when you keep your needs simple and thereby have everything you want.

I hope to learn how to code among many other things. Literature isn't my only interest but it is by far my strongest one. I intend to learn how to code if I can't make it to a professorship.

>male oriented,you can work alone most of the time, everybody wants to pay you absurd money

You've never actually had a professional coding job, have you?

Reminder that Vollmann was a programmer.

Cobol, I believe. Alternate subroutine.

If you were in the game before the early 2000s this was true.

I got no skills or qualifications or knowledge of coding.

Am 29 year old NEET.

Yeah, go ahead and try it everyone. Except you're probably not going to have the patience or appreciation to stick with it more than a week after you realize it isn't the magic effortless meme job you thought it would be.
I would be worried as a programmer otherwise, but dozens of times over now I've had the satisfaction of watching normie trend hoppers slowly realize programming is something you do to make things convenient rather than something that's already convenient to begin with. In a lot of ways it's the exact opposite of the cushy automatic convenience they expect since you have to get incredibly autistic about tiny little details in the context of an imaginary structure way more abstract than what a normal, mentally healthy non-autist would think in terms of in order to provide the work needed to give the illusion of simplicity and convenience to end users.

It's still pretty heavily dominated by male autists.
I will say though that most typical IT department located developer positions come with unfortunate amounts of forced teamwork and memey project management bullshit where everything you do is based on poorly worded business request tickets.
If you do development for a non-IT department on the other hand you get to bypass all of that and just write shit however you feel like it, and positions like those are available more often then you'd guess because most businesses resebt their own IT department for making them open work tickets and hiring their own separate developer lets them get things done on the fly.

This is retarded, only the top 5-10% of intelligent people have the brain power necessary to code let alone the patents it takes to spend months or years getting decent at it

>It's still writing, at the end of the day. You're creating a fictional (digital) world by writing. What's the difference? Well, except for the fact that people actually give a damn if you write code.
In practice, it isn't as magical as you make it seem. You're usually going to be spending your time debugging other people's code instead of writing your own code. And unlike writing a novel, your code isn't your own personal creation, because you have to fit the requirements of whoever is paying you.

Full-time programmer here. How much are you getting paid and how did you get part-time work? My goal is minimize my time at work as much as possible.

>I go to Veeky Forums and guys who don't code are having a good talk about programming
>I go to Veeky Forums and guys who don't code are having a good talk about programming
>I go to /g/ and guys who code are shitposting about "muh operative system is better than yours"
What a strange world.

And what amazing research are you doing in philosophy? Researching a hypothetical onto-epistemological sphere that might not even exist?

>Life gets really cosy when you keep your needs simple and thereby have everything you want.
How do you do this? I can't imagine living as a poor person, in the midst of crime and low-quality housing, for the sake of "keeping my needs simple."

>Coding is clearly a bubble.
Coding is what will liberate us. Throughout history, people have always praised automation for freeing humanity. But they always fucked it up somehow, by e.g. coming up with more work for people to do. But I think this time is different. This is the time where technology will advance so far that not a single person will be required to work for survival.

>poorly worded business request tickets
Seriously. What is it about these retards that makes them incapable of communicating something in clearly understandable terms? Fuck's sake.

Most people don't really understand what it is they want out of technology / software. They can't communicate it because they haven't even done the work of figuring out the specifics of what their random whims will actually require.

It's an overestimated market, just like every other market, which is why I don't work.

Man it does feel this way. Reading stuff from a couple decades ago makes it seem ridiculously easy to get a job, you could show up in a new city and be employed by sundown. Yeah it would probably be manual labor, but it was still a job and enough to live off of. Now if you don't have valuable skills or connections you're pretty much fucked, and even if you do get a job there's a good chance you'll have to move across the country to work it. Maybe my view of the past is inaccurate, but it really seems to me that things have got worse since the mid century, even accounting the post-war boom and the natural decline from that.

>Nonlinear dynamics of living systems
link to works, preferably for laymen or intermediates please
v interested in models of biological organization

Those problems you described about low-quality housing and shitload of crime only exist in giant cities. If you go out to small towns usually the cost of living and crime is low, there just isn't much to do.

shhhh, don't tell them!!! leave the good jobs for the rest of us!!!

If we all collectively got our shit together you wouldn't need to try so hard to find a job, because you wouldn't need to find a job.

I have exclusively lived in giant cities my entire life so I'm definitely biased. That fact probably hasn't helped my paranoia. I am scared to death of being the victim of crime.

cos i suck at math

Yeah small towns usually don't have any crime problems, unless you are unfortunate enough to move into one of those methlab trailer park towns, but those are mostly down south. Eastern US states like Maine and Vermont are where it's at.

Best thing you can do to tackle your fear is look it in the eye and be as prepared as you can for crime scenarios. Martial arts classes, if you have the time and money, help TREMENDOUSLY in this area. It's not even about being able to fight in self-defense, the biggest things you learn from those classes are situational awareness and the ability to defuse situations. If you have those two abilities you almost never have to worry about crime.

stop living in shitty places

STEM > humanities

>le studying math and phyisics will cure your mental illness meme

Coding languages are much more restrictive than spoken ones so much so that any comparison about creativity is pointless

>only the top 5-10% of intelligent people have the brain power necessary to code
I beg to differ. Unless you meant something specific. coding doesn't even require you to think sometimes, you just repeat what you've learned already again and again, and practically anyone can do it, with enough determination to learn it
t. brainled coder

>Nonlinear dynamics of living systems

Oh sorry I thought you were an actual physicist for a moment

Well, anyone studying physics and/or mathematics needs to do some programming too. Perhaps the issue is that the programming they do is not the same as you'd find in software engineering / computer science. It's messy and small, rather than a legitimate project of engineering. I'm sure if they actually studied it in-depth- as in, the underlying theory and lower-level work (not to mention actually gain experience through working on their own varied projects), rather than some Hello World tier C++ shit or extremely high-level Python data sciency usage.

It's not really needed for them to be good at programming (usually), so they aren't. They certainly could earn though.

This is the difference between a "programmer" and a "software engineer".

I guarantee that you can't code for shit. There is a difference to highly inefficient, specific-application programming and proper software engineering in a professional setting (which entails huge projects that require certain standards due to the amount of programmers and quality requirements).

>Unless you're socially saavy enough to ascend into management
you don't really know what you are talking about m8

pretty much every actually good software engineer wouldn't like to be in management, that's not how "ascension" work in the field

and I think that from an outside perspective you can't discern, but the majority of "coders" are actually pretty bad
there's simply no way that you will have an influx of "cheap" good software engineers (as in suited to work on complex projects and at top companies). good companies rn can't even hire the amount of people they would actually like to.

the increasing influx you are seeing is from a bunch of kids that learn the basics of programming a website and become "full stack developer" or "mobile developer" and share memes and create instagram accounts proclaiming themselves that. These people are usually pretty bad and don't have a clue about actual software engineering. These people either become "meme cool dev" or a corporate slave that pretends all day to clueless managers that he knows what he's doing and wanna ascend to management himself.

>Why don't you guys just write code while also trying to write your novels or whatever?
boring for me and for many people, and not everyone has the feeling/necessity of creating/exploring new things, which is essential to become a good programmer.

>everybody wants to pay you absurd money to write code for them
absolute retard. You will get good money only if you are an exceptional programmer who happened to have recognition. Your average condemonkey is the new definition of slave

>and you learn editing and proofreading skills which are invaluable to any novelist.
you learn shit from trying to read the spaghetti-tier unreadable code the other codemonkey wrote before you

>You're creating a fictional (digital) world by writing. What's the difference?
>whats the difference between lines of a virtual sphagetti and a great novel
if you can't answer that, get out

1. You are retarded if you think that will happen
2. You are even more retarded if you think that, if that happens, it will be a good thing.

people NEED to work.

Doubtful about this. You're probably talking about html tier coding.

yes, and before, even for not-manual-labour you didn't HAVE to have AT LEAST a graduation. Just ask programmers who started working ~30~50 years ago, the vast majority were self taught with no graduation. Now if you don't have a degree, all you get is the menial braindead jobs.

not trying to be edgy, neither am I from /pol/, but part of this is because of women working. Before that, the market was extremely well adjusted: good amount of decent jobs for men and the job payed well (at least enough to properly feed a family or 1~2 kids), it was not too competitive and the jobs payed way better. Now, imagine that you have this good balance between jobs vs workers, now you double the number of workers...what you have in the end? extremely saturated market thus extremely competitive and wages as low as possible.

you underestimate your own intelligence and overestimate the average

>Why don't you guys just write code while also trying to write your novels or whatever?
Because I'm studying literature and a foreign language, because I don't think I can shit out a good book just so, by randomly reading muh Greeks and meme novels.

>It's a male brain-orientated career
Neckbeards and traps aren't really male.

>you can work alone most of the time
I prefer communicating with other people and avoiding doing work, rather than hiding from the rest of the world and working my ass off for the boss.

>everybody wants to pay you absurd money to write code for them
I kind of doubt that "absurd" part but ok

>and you learn editing and proofreading skills which are invaluable to any novelist.
>It's still writing, at the end of the day. You're creating a fictional (digital) world by writing. What's the difference?
You're so stupid it hurts.

>Now if you don't have a degree, all you get is the menial braindead jobs.
far from the truth
I've never actually seem a good place to work that cares about a degree.

The only ones that do that are the middlebrow ones, who are the worst workplaces tbqh

But I do write code and thoroughly enjoy it, too. I even get paid to do it. But my main profession is heavily people-oriented, and the older I get the more thankful I am. It's just that being human overall is mostly about nurturing social relations to other humans, and programming full-time means staring into the machine all day every day.

But I would encourage everybody to learn how to program, it will improve your character and thinking. You just need a project, if you just go in there without a clear tangible goal you won't have a good time self-learning.

Good luck finding a job, OP. This field is a bubble waiting to burst. Not to mention that a lot of the work is already getting outsourced, already.

t. close with my 29 year old cousin who just lost his job because he got replaced by a graduate (he probably accepted a lower salary!)

similar happened to my father. He was working at the company for almost 20 years as systems analyst, he was something like rank 3~4 in the data processing center of the company. Got fired without any warning (which is mandatory, they had to pay my father because of this) and replaced by a guy who had just graduated and had little experience. Why? because a young guy with almost no experience will accept working almost for free compared to the salary of an experienced IT professional

This. You will spend your time untangling undocumented, uncommented code and unnecessary proprietary APIs that someone (now long gone) has left behind.

Coding itself can be interesting. When you get the opportunity to work on something new, or do a project of your own - it's wonderful.

But the reality of most tech jobs is that you are a slave to the technology, not the other way around.

No, it's not women. It's largely automation and globalised labour. Most campaigns about getting women into the workforce are really about encouraging them to participate more in the economy (e.g. work full-time instead of part-time, work in more highly paid jobs...) and thereby pay more tax and buy more things. Men already want these things usually? But men are not as good at spending money as women. Anyway, women honestly have a really shit "dilemma" when it comes to career and family, and some young women are the most hard working people you may ever meet because of this. Don't be a retard though, there are all kinds of factors pushing wages down.

>people NEED to work.
Why? What do you mean by "need"?

Not that guy but I think productive labor is pretty essential to your mental health. Of course most jobs don't give a feeling of productivity and what most people want to work on isn't employable.

I agree, but I don't think that productive labor necessarily has to take the form of "work" as we know it today. It would probably be even healthier, in fact, if it were disconnected from the need to survive. You would voluntarily participate in this labor because you intrinsically enjoy it and not because of outside factors, like the need to make money to live, or because it's the only thing people will pay you for.

>I've known people who are incredibly gifted at advanced physics and math that just can't get into coding
No you haven't.

>unfortunate amounts of forced teamwork and memey project management bullshit

Fucking Agile. My job was great before that. When are the execs going to cotton on that 14 hours of ineffectual meetings per team member per fortnight is costing them money and killing quality? If i need to write some decent code i have to do it in my own time at the weekend to get away from the managerial crap.

yes, but for people to voluntarily participate in some kind of labour, along the chain to make it possible, somewhere there will inevitably be some kind of work that nobody enjoy doing, and that without a good incentive, which is the need to survive, no one would do. For instance, wood working, you need tools. Someone is going to have to make the tools, and for that, someone will have to do a shitty and often unhealthy job to extract the necessary materials. Its basically the same as in anarchism, its beautiful and would be great, but at the end of the day, people just care about their own interests...

I feel a lot better being on neetbux and fucking around in the garden than I did working in a warehouse just endlessly sorting out the mountains and mountains of useless shit people order online.

Camus was a retard, one must imagine Sisyphus miserable.

What do you do if you have no skills, no job experience, no degree and "autism"? I feel like I'm going to be homeless soon.

>autism
bux

Well, I should say I have work experience as a waiter but considering my social anxiety it's living hell and part of the reason why I have that job is because the owner for some reason tolerates me, I feel like once this thing runs its course I'm off to the streets.

>im more worthy than Camus cause i ponce off other peoples tax

You know when your teacher told you that there are no stupid questions, only stupid answers?

Well, I'm afraid this post is an exception to that rule.

I said "autism" not autism. I feel guilty about this sometimes but I think if I had a real autism or disability of some kind it would be less embarassing. It's not like I would lose anything, I have no job experience, no gf, no car, no place to stay, no skills etc. when I run the checklist I doubt my life would even get worse, it would at least provide some kind of a valid reason for being a loser. You know, guy is in a wheelchair, he can't do it. Or guy is a schizo, he can't do it. Now it almost feels worse, like I've been struck only with the loser gene that makes you a loser but not anything else. I hope I can read this in 10 years and laugh at it, but considering my life seems worse every year not better, it might be even worse 10 years from now.

read some clastres, levi strauss and viveiros de castro

Why not get yourself checked out?

...

>this is what "physicists" are studying now

Thank god mathematicians do every physicists work for them

you either start developing a skill and get REALLY good at it (for instance, programming, get some nice shit done to show experience) and try and land a job, or accept day-to-day jobs, aka retail, bars...

What other options are there beyond programming?

this

I would say, pick something that you like and that you have the means to do it by yourself.
that's one of the main things I enjoy about programming, the freedom from barriers to enter it. I just need my computer and can virtually learn anything related by getting a book and doing it. The only thing that varies in the world out there is scale (and some problems that arise with it), but is pretty much the same reasoning and knowledge needed anyone.

other things that come to mind that are like that are graphic design, illustration, photography. Gotta be a lot more though.

>graphic design, illustration, photography
Good luck getting paid well for any of that.