Is the quran a good book to read?

no but modern Christianity is

LGBTQI+ are finally recognized by churches all across the country and can be married and live happy, religious lives

I tried reading it, found it boring. The bible, say what you will, has very interesting stories. The Qran, not so much, it's written more like a manual.

Again, I haven't read it all. Didn't make me interested.

thats the point, you do realize there is also (a) modern islam?

>These are the sons of Israel: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Issachar, Zebulun, 2 Dan, Joseph, Benjamin, Naphtali, Gad, and Asher. 3 The sons of Judah: Er, Onan, and Shelah; these three the Canaanite woman Bath-shua bore to him. Now Er, Judah’s firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the Lord, and he put him to death. 4 His daughter-in-law Tamar also bore him Perez and Zerah. Judah had five sons in all.
>5 The sons of Perez: Hezron and Hamul. 6 The sons of Zerah: Zimri, Ethan, Heman, Calcol, and Dara,[a] five in all. 7 The sons of Carmi: Achar, the troubler of Israel, who transgressed in the matter of the devoted thing; 8 and Ethan’s son was Azariah.
>9 The sons of Hezron, who were born to him: Jerahmeel, Ram, and Chelubai. 10 Ram became the father of Amminadab, and Amminadab became the father of Nahshon, prince of the sons of Judah. 11 Nahshon became the father of Salma, Salma of Boaz, 12 Boaz of Obed, Obed of Jesse. 13 Jesse became the father of Eliab his firstborn, Abinadab the second, Shimea the third, 14 Nethanel the fourth, Raddai the fifth, 15 Ozem the sixth, David the seventh; 16 and their sisters were Zeruiah and Abigail. The sons of Zeruiah: Abishai, Joab, and Asahel, three. 17 Abigail bore Amasa, and the father of Amasa was Jether the Ishmaelite.
>18 Caleb son of Hezron had children by his wife Azubah, and by Jerioth; these were her sons: Jesher, Shobab, and Ardon. 19 When Azubah died, Caleb married Ephrath, who bore him Hur. 20 Hur became the father of Uri, and Uri became the father of Bezalel.
>21 Afterwards Hezron went in to the daughter of Machir father of Gilead, whom he married when he was sixty years old; and she bore him Segub; 22 and Segub became the father of Jair, who had twenty-three towns in the land of Gilead. 23 But Geshur and Aram took from them Havvoth-jair, Kenath and its villages, sixty towns. All these were descendants of Machir, father of Gilead. 24 After the death of Hezron, in Caleb-ephrathah, Abijah wife of Hezron bore him Ashhur, father of Tekoa.
Riveting stuff, my dude

I said no meme answers. And I am certain you don't hold those modern liberal values yourself. And to imply that all liberal values are good, what a joke.

I suggest to everyone to read the Quran. Open it to pretty much any random point and go 10 pages back and 10 pages forward. Anyone who so much as utters 'religion of peace' without attributing it to Christ's teachings should be REQUIRED to sit down for even just 10 minutes and READ some of the Quran. By western standards, it's truly reprehensible, and its horrors should be maintained just as the horrors of Mein Kampf should be maintained, for both had wrought great suffering to great numbers of innocent people.

READ THE QURAN AND LEARN OF ITS HORRORS! Nobody has ever done well to underestimate one's enemy, or to remain in ignorance of that enemy, and in this case that enemy is unadulterated EVIL.

Try to read the apocalypse, Ruth, Sansan, Job, for example, instead of choosing a dozen lines of a immense book.

That's intelectually dishonest, you should go and listen to skrilexx while sucking a turd from a crack whore's anus.

Watch this series of shot clips
>youtube.com/watch?v=r7nLo2AK4fs&list=PLuXxHEHGRVu9H54IfV0XkhnqkcC3wm8mR
That is the one thing it got going for itself.

In all honesty, it's not. It's incredibly repetitive and poorly structured, and it seems to be mostly preaching to the choir. Most of it is just dull and God being a dick. It's not as bad as the worst parts of the OT, but not nearly as good as its best parts, either.

I'm reading it right now an i must also say it is just quite boring most of the time.
Also i you didn't know it was the holy book of Islam it could easily pass as another book of the Old Testament. I'm about half way and they told the story of Moses fleeing Egypt about 6 times again and again.

It's just about how you will go to hell if you don't accept mohamet.

Does that sound good to you?

Most of the stories are from the talmud and apochryphal folktales.

I suggest you takeyour own advice before making suggestions

It's a heresy, like arianism but dumber, into the trash it goes.

That is an exaggeration.

My studies of religion continues, and though I'm trying my best to find some good that goes with the evil in the Quran it is thus far an almost entirely one-sided situation. Even the section I quite like in regards to 'being just' no matter the opposition, we must look into 'what is just' in Islam. If a wife does not obey her husband, then she must be instructed on how she's wrong, then she must be forsaken from bed if she continues, and finally she must be struck if she continues. What is just in regards to Jews and Christians? Well first and foremost, as is said SEVERAL times in the Quran, don't take them as allies. It goes into particular detail about not trusting Jews. I'm certain Hitler would have very much enjoyed the Quran if he had read it. Well, what is just if a Muslim questions their faith and considers converting to a different faith? Death, that is what is just, so justice in itself based on western standards and western values might not be just at all, in fact it might scream of injustice to be just by Islamic standards.

If you think I'm not studying Islam correctly, if you think I'm exaggerating, then by all means, read the Quran and draw your own interpretation. Well, there is in and of itself a problem; the Quran is the word of God and must be taken as literally as possible. The Bible is open to interpretation after all Jesus Christ had even questioned or openly went against aspects of the Old Testament, and in Christianity the New Testament does indeed supersede the Old Testament not just in chronology but also in importance. If the New and Old conflict, go with the New, and scholars of Islam agree with that sentiment in the Quran. If an older verse conflicts with a newer verse, go with the new. It's rather unfortunate that most of the 'peaceful' aspects of Islam is in the earlier sections of the book while much of the more violent and warmongering sections are later in the book towards the end of Prophet Muhammad's life.

I believe if Islam is to truly be compatible with the west, then they are in desperate need of their own New Testament with a hippie-like Muslim-version of Jesus that calls out against violence. The problem is that the Quran is the word of God, of Allah, it is not up for interpretation or alteration, it is fixed, it is as it is and it must not change. It CANNOT change, meanwhile Christianity is far more flexible and can change with the times thanks to Christ's teachings. I mean, the Bible tells slaves to obey their masters, says it in both the Old and New Testaments, but you'd be hard pressed to find Christians who want slaves to return. I don't even know if those of the Westborough Baptist church, which is probably the Christians most hated by the overall Christian society, essentially the most extremist of Christians, would want slavery back. If they do, they are a VERY, VERY small minority. Meanwhile in many Muslim nations they still have slavery to this very day.

Omg he DID NOT JUST SAY thAt Im ssso triggered right now oMG stoP ThiS MadLaD befoRe he SeriouSLY HuRtS SoMeOnE!!!! :O

edgy af

On the contrary.

I think the entire philosophy of accepting the Quran is indicative of forward-thinking momentum. Think of it this way: you have the most close-minded religion: Judaism. These people believe that the Jews are chosen. Still do. They are deluded. Islam addresses this issue. Moving on. Christianity. These people believe that Jesus Christ came and absolved us of our sins (good), and that he was the last prophet to come. There is no need for anything else.

With the Quran, the Quran states that it is yet ANOTHER sign from God. Showing that there will be more prophets after Jesus. And even though there are Muslims who say that Muhammad is the last prophet, there are many instances of the Quran predicting the future. I firmly believe there will be more prophets to come. My point about this is simple: God is real and the prophets don't stop. The space between them grows larger over time. Like prime numbers.

It's a basic concept. Nothing too far-reaching. You just have to understand that the idea that religion should be about a being (God) who isn't an interactive concurrent force with humanity is flawed. This is why I enjoy transcendentalism so much as well. Great philosophy, it is.

Islam is just compatible with progress in theology. It seems to me Judaism and Christianity are both too stagnant. But if God did send down a holy book (which I believe he did) then we have evidence that he will do various, unique signs. The fact that people are saying it reminds them of the Old Testament is because that's how God is. Believe it or not, while God can show himself in very psychological and divine ways, he has killed people before. What you have to understand is that fundamentally, God may not always enjoy the direction society is headed. That's why he intervenes. But if he intervenes with the way that society is headed, it's typically to smite an entire city or civilization. It's just how he is. People whine. People complain. That's exactly what they did in The Old Testament until he directly intervened. Let the infidels whine. Their hearts are hardened by God.

Hope this helps. The Quran teaches you to be patient with infidels. The Shias, Sunnis, Sufis, Kurds, w/e, they all have it wrong. We are in some dire need of Quranism these days.

Yeah, just make sure you get an annotated one (this applies to all scripture). Sometimes there are some verses that are sorta vague and then it helps to have an annotation to explain how it's typically interpreted.

>Islam is antithetical to modern liberal values
Based.
Don't bother asking here if you want an unbiased opinion OP.

Veeky Forums is filled with christcucks and libshits.

thats literally just a fancy way of saying "muh women rights"

This is the speech of someone who has clearly never read the book.

I suggest looking at a tafseer, rather than just a translation. It goes more in depth, and you catch subtleties you might miss otherwise. If you prefer a simple translation, tho, I recommend the Oxford translation written by Abdel Haleem. It is written in simple, clear, modern English, and he uses footnotes and references well.

Sounds like a response from a typical Christcuck. You should talk to Islamic scholars. They don't interpret everything literally.

That's the cop out answer people give because they don't want to admit it's because of racial feeling

Its all about muh rewards and muh punishments after the day of resurrection.
It doesnt say that often to kill infidels, but it does say often that infidels will be cast into eternal hellfire in the afterlife, so muslims just have to be patient.

It has self insulation against reform, which is very dangerous. It claims that it is the final word on religion, and the anything that comes after it is not valid and should be regarded as evil.

>believing a persian's 200 year old chinese whispers

>Replace Quran with the word Bible.

On a serious point, the term "believer," and "unbeliever," are never defined.

So an atheist, beer drinking empiricist scientist man who is a nice person is probably more of a Muslim than a Saudi sheikh spreading filth.

>tfw not been bitch-slapped by Ahmed Deedat yet.

BASED Quranist.

Tolu-E-Islam where?

>the Quran states that it is yet ANOTHER sign from God. Showing that there will be more prophets after Jesus

The Quran clearly states that Muhammed is the last prophet, you retard:

>Muhammad is not the father of [any] one of your men, but [he is] the Messenger of Allah and last of the prophets. And ever is Allah, of all things, Knowing. (33:40)

If you ignore the fact that it can be boring as hell in some parts, them isen't a bad read.
It's always nice to take a glimpse of holy books of big religions.
And also, you will be able debunk any retard who says the Quran don't have any violence or that the religion has no prejudice against the gays, women and so on.

I don't hate islam, apologist. And don't come with the "no meme anwsers" card.
Islam right now has a massive problem, that is, the followers are acting like they are in the medieval times, when even then people didn't followed the book by everyline. This has more to do with the fact that today, the mainstream muslim is a ultraconservative who hates liberal tradition when suits his wills. He will cry against the liberal tradition when such thing allow people to critic his religion or his beliefes, but will be very quiet when this tradition allows him to preach that such tradition is evil and how opressed it makes him. Also, he will be very quiet when he wants casual sex or when he votes for more religion in public life.
Islam itself has no value, It's the followers who make the value, and so far it goes, the followers are making islam have a bad value for anyone who grown up in a free society, where we judge people by action, and not belief or what they are. Unlike muslim majority country where some of these are illegal

...

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Its radical expansionism is very hostile to smaller native religions, though I would consider all Abrahamic religions to hold such traits.

TL;DR of this post is: The problem with Islam is that it's followers follow it exactly like how it is supposed to be and won't pander to my Liberal ideology.

If only all you burgers knew what life in England was like hahaha

>muh white sharia

Who are you quoting?

And i don't support white sharia. I want Christianity to return it's original pure form before it was castrated by the ''Enlightenment'' and the French Revolution.

Its not that bad, some of the stuff is pretty decent.

Don't put words my mouth, user.
And don't say "my liberal ideology". I don't hate white people to be a leftist.

>Don't put words my mouth, user.
Can't put them when they are already in your mouth.

>And don't say "my liberal ideology". I don't hate white people to be a leftist.

Do you have any idea what Liberalism is? It isn't just modern day leftism.

Yeah they do, mudshit

Fuck that interpretation, it's too pessimistic.

>Can't put them when they are already in your mouth.
No, they aren't. I put my opnion plain and simple: I don't have a problem with Islam, I have a problem with a big number of muslims, who have a backward and intolerant vision. This dosen't mean that islam in itself can't coexist with a free society, because religion should be a private question, not a public one like in muslim majority countrys. Also, even if some people say that you shouden't take what Mohammed say early in his life in comparisson with his late life, the quran isen't completely worthless. It's a medieval holy book, with many of the cultural traits of a time long past,that is, if there wasen't a movement to give rebirth to this backwards way of life (wahabbis for example).

>Do you have any idea what Liberalism is? It isn't just modern day leftism.
I know, but I taught you were talking about the american left world view. Since you aren't I, don't worry about.

>if there wasen't a movement to give rebirth to this backwards way of life (wahabbis for example).
Stopped reading right there. You definitely don't know shit about Islam.

Islam was never meant to be a ''private question''. It's why whenever ideologies like Liberalism, or secularism get crushed when they pop up in Islamic countries. They are inherently anti-Islam and no Muslim who actually follows his religion will never allow them to reduce the influence of Islam in his country.

Religion being a private affair is just you projecting your views on how things should be.

>know, but I taught you were talking about the american left world view. Since you aren't I, don't worry about.

What is with this cancerous grammar?

>Religion being a private affair is just you projecting your views on how things should be.
>more them millenial for people to learn this shit and a dude say shit like that

>What is with this cancerous grammar?
I am brainlet, my grammar is fucking trash from time to time.

>These people believe that Jesus Christ came and absolved us of our sins (good), and that he was the last prophet to come

Paul? John the Revelator? The finality of Christianity is in the fact that Christ's death and resurrection was the final blood sacrifice necessary to atone for sin, the blood of a mortal lamb will cover sins for a time, but the blood of immortal God willingly shed will cover sins forever.

>You just have to understand that the idea that religion should be about a being (God) who isn't an interactive concurrent force with humanity is flawed

Yeah it is flawed, which is why it isn't part of Christian belief, what Christians claim that God doesn't interact with the world? Maybe the claim is that there are no more prophets today - which is reasonable since there is no need for any more prophets as the whole revelation of God is contained within the Bible. That's not the same as claiming that God doesn't interact with the world.

Regarding the wrathful nature of God in the OT, just because the NT doesn't focus primarily on God's wrath doesn't mean it has disappeared or that Christians don't believe in a wrathful God. Read Revelation if you want to see what God's apocalyptic wrath will look like. The NT focuses on the loving, forgiving nature of God more specifically because that is what it's about - the redeeming, forgiving work of God through Christ's sacrifice. Nothing in there contradicts or undermines the OT. The OT has plenty of content describing the loving and forgiving nature of God, read the Psalms. OT has more historical content regarding the building and tearing down of nations over centuries, which is one reason why there is more violence. Whereas NT focuses on individuals in one place at one time. There are still instances of God's wrath in the early church, see Ananias and Sapphia. God is both loving and wrathful, the creator of all existence and the originator of 'love' and 'wrath' obviously perfectly understands both emotions (and more).

Heresy?
Islam says there is one god.
Catholicism says god is 3 and one is his son.

Which makes more sense really?

FUCK ISLAM!!!

...

Oh I'm well aware of God's qualities. I know God myself, as you should as well.

The only way this discussion in God is invalid is if you don't have 100% faith that he is indeed real.

On a side note, I think there will be another chapter in the Abrahamic religion in the future, rather it may just be a more psychological one. I believe that prophets do continue, and this belief is something that is being felt concurrently throughout reality. Religion will, and must, like everything else, move forward.

Yeah, but also there are gay mulsums but we all know what happen with them

It was supposed to be a warning, not a manual.

If you want to read any religious texts just read the Gita, Bible or Tibetan Book of the Dead. Much better.

It's a Luciferian death cult that kills anyone who tried to leave.

I have not read the whole book YET. It will come in time. For now, I have read quite a bit of it, and even have a series of papers that have quotes from the Quran that I have collected, both good and bad. It just so happens that it's around 90% bad and even in the amount that is 'good', in context based on the standards of western civilization (best civilization in the history of mankind) it's still bad. I can share the verses if you want, there are many.

>Religion will, and must, like everything else, move forward.
Nah.

This thread reeks of the the_donald. Don't you guys get bored? Or is it the bountiful energy of the youth (underaged posters)?

>Islam is antithetical to modern liberal values
good

I'm not sure what you mean about the discussion being invalid.

Maybe you should start the next Abrahamic religion? What you've said so far defies the teaching of the Islamic faith (no more prophets after Mohammed) and the logic of the Christian faith (no further revelation necessary) so maybe you are the prophet of this new religion.

>western civilization (best civilization in the history of mankind)
The values of the liberal West are so fucking cancerous that it's fertility rates and the ones who emulate it have reached rock bottom and now have to import the same Muslims you despise to keep your countries standing. Your values LITERALLY allow Muslims to conquer you and outbreed you.

>Meanwhile in many Muslim nations they still have slavery to this very day
Slavery is more likely an Arab thing rather than an Islamic one, Arabs are very racist, also giving the fucked up political situation in the middle east compared of that of the west, it's pretty understandable if horrible things like that happen
Also Mohammad nearly ended slavery, and I don't think there has been ever a religion as opposing to slavery as Islam is

damn son.
Imagine being THIS wrong and delusional.

sounds like an ex-muslim

>the problem of islam is
>goes on to whine about people that claim to be muslim
>islam itself has no value
>the followers make the value

This is just simply wrong. The message is descriptive. It describes how a believer should behave and be like. You can't just say I'm a Muslim and then you are one.
I agree that the majority of people who claim to be Muslim behave badly. However this says nothing about the inherent values of Islam itself.
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Try writing in English next time btw you fucking illiterate piece of shit.

>real islam has never been tried!

don't worry user, there's The Mahdi and Jesus is coming back also

Because it's a religion chock full of terrorists and church-controlled states. This isn't a complicated one, user

message aside, it's just not particularly coherent. From what I read of it, it's like someone was following mohammed taking notes whenever he said something interesting, and then they put down the notes in an almost random order.

The Pope's a bitch. Next question.

It's not because of racial feeling, but I'd be lukewarm to that idea.

Yes, you always pull that face when someone brings up this point but hear me out.
The teachings are DESCRIPTIVE.
So read what God has to say. Then observe.
Does anyone obey? Well, maybe two or three in a million people. Might be even someone who hasn't even heard of islam.
Look at how God himself defines His religion (The Romans:30).
Allah says that the natural, untouched state of man is religion.
That means the natural state of man is that he doesn't steal, doesn't lie, doesn't talk behind someone elses back etc.
A fucking Eskimo on the north pole could be a perfect Muslim for all I know without even having heard the name Muhammad.

I don't like it because it's literally a stupid religion. Aside from a few small and precious sects they reject the notion that the universe a rational and knowable thing. Scientific or philosophical discovery is at the least borderline heresy because we're not supposed to question God in who he is or his capabilities. The only true knowledge to a Muslim is revelation.

>There are lists in what is supposed to be a historical record
Color me shocked.

>implying people who are muslims need to follow every fucking bullshit the Quran says or that their actions alone are proof that the problem is in islam itself

There are and were people who follow islam and can live okay with anyone else. They can even criticize their own fucking religion, althought this is absurdly rare.
People and often do give up a bunch of their religious dogmas in order to pursue something more secular. This bullshit happened with christianity (although say that islam and christianity would follow the same path to secularization is a big mistake), I don't see why can't happen in islam.
Even if the religion itself is no more than a bunch of pseudo-christian arabic way of life, millions of people follow and truly believe it, and althought majority of them now have backward vision of the world and are bigoted to the extreme, I don't see why they couden't change, like, idk, christianity or any other religion.
I wonder what is people suggestion then? Should we kill all muslims? Ban islam? Ban any muslim from living in other countrys other than theirs? There was a time when islam was on their way be a more tolerant and cosmopolitan religion, than they have fallen and cant get up now. And this is getting worst because of saudi funnding of wahabbi dogma.
Even Martin Luther said to let the Quran be published, even if he said in orther to refute it. I don't see why, in a near future, muslims couden't get in the same route and embrace a more free and liberal society. Because of their religion? Ffk, people break their religion all the time.
You guys are just triggered.

If the murderers of ISIS had never heard of Mohammed, if the guys who shot up the Bataclan weren't professing Muslims, would they still have done the things they did? Even if they have misinterpreted the Koran in your estimation, they were still inspired by it to commit acts of terrorism in the name of Islam. Your theory is nice but reality tells a different story. People who claim to be Muslims but commit violence are not 'real' Muslims - I can understand that viewpoint - but in practical terms this won't affect anybody's decision to accept or reject Islam.

Ye shall know them by their fruits. I have eyes to see and ears to hear and that's all I need to make my assessment of your religion.

here
They will need to stop being such babies and face the faults in their religion tho. They also will need to give up some of their dogmas, and I would suggest to start stop using the veil, because this is fucking retarded.

>if they just change parts of their faith to be more in line with my beliefs then we can all get along just fine!

Why would any religious person, Christian or Muslim, do what you are suggesting? You've identified a problem but what you're proposing isn't a solution, why should they change to suit you? What's in it for them? I don't disagree with you, but what you're saying isn't realistic.

>They will need to stop being such babies and face the faults in their religion tho. They also will need to give up some of their dogmas, and I would suggest to start stop using the veil, because this is fucking retarded.
That's not gonna fucking happen. The last thing Muslims give a damn about is the opinion of some infidel on their values and culture.

Nice ad-hominem. Wonder if the Bible taught you that?

Anybody who posts that pic shouldn't be taken seriously.

whats your point though?
yes people do shit in the name of Allah, so?
do you know what logic is?
>but in practical terms this won't affect anybody's decision to accept or reject Islam.
So fucking what?
The goal of Islam is not to convert anyone. It just describes the reality we live in.

What the fuck are you even trying to say?
What is your point?

Actually yes Islam aims to convert people.

It's called dawah.

Please stop presenting your eccentric personal views as if they represent true Islam.

Atheism is exploding among youth in the Arab world right now. Even in saudi Arabia atheism is spreading like wildfire among young people.

It's always the case that intense fundamentalism is followed by irreligion which is what happened in Europe. So Islam won't be much of a problem for much longer.

God you're so brainwashed by this shit.

>It's always the case
Always?

It is what's happening right now.

Check the statistics. A large percentage Syrian, Saudi and Egyptian youth are atheist

Society always returns to religion once they see how degenerate and dysfunctional the alternative is