Can genre fiction ever "ascend" to literary fiction? I believe it can. The elements which make a work "literary" do not have to stop other genres from doing the same. A great deal of "literary" fiction is described as important due to either a mastery of language, great use of technique, as an example of an achievement of the time, and other such reasons. Thus, it is not the notion of "literary" that makes these works important but the inherent factors within them. In other words, the notion of describing something as literary fiction is only a vehicle to express such factors.
Now that i've defined literary fiction I will define genre fiction. Genre fictions ifs fiction contained by plot elements or staples I.E Detective fiction has a mystery to solve Fantasy features "impossible" elements etc. If these staples exist in any genre the work itself becomes that genre.
So, in these two definitions of fiction I have proposed, neither blocks the other from occurring. It is entirely possible for a work to contain a mystery and still have a mastery over language or elves and demonstrate very effective use of technique. It is no secret that most genre fiction is bad , like most literary fiction is bad, but by the simple notion of genre, a work should not be discarded without having been read.
Josiah White
fag
Sebastian Cooper
I'd say there are mutually exclusive. Literary fiction, or high art in general, is in a sense revolutionary. It disorients the subject, opens up new possibilities of thinking and being. Genre fiction is a series of recognized tropes, codes, and signs. It soothes and reassures the subject and traditional modes of thought.
It's not necessarily about quality, there can be bad literary fiction and great genre fiction. For example, Le Carre is genre fiction and, say, Franzen is literary fiction, but Le Carre is a better writer than Franzen. But one finishes a Le Carre novel with the same sense of self they had before.
Juan Thomas
Genre fiction influences way more people, particularly in regards to movie adaptations.
William Morris
So you separate the definition of "good" writing from "revolutionary" writing?
Dominic Martin
>So you separate the definition of "good" writing from "revolutionary" writing?
Yeah. I know it's contrary to how most people use the words, but to me calling something 'art' or 'literature' says nothing about its quality, only its form and content (although I'm open to using 'art' much more broadly).
Aaron Richardson
Interesting. What is your stance on how genre fiction is perceived by Veeky Forums?
Jayden Anderson
Nah, they bleed into each other. I'm reading The Master and Margarita right now and it's occasionally described as fantasy. Ice by Anna Kavan is definitely literary fiction but it won a sci-fi award. Some people say that Cosmicomics by Calvino is sci-fi.
For the most part I think you're right, though. Most works easily fall into one category or another and should be judged within the contexts of their genres.
David Allen
Perhaps I'm not the best person to ask since I don't read much genre fiction, but I'm completely fine with the predominant focus on literature on this board.
I get where you're coming from, and I wouldn't even really dispute your classifications, but like I said, I wouldn't call the first two of those works (I'm not familiar with the third) 'genre fiction' in the same way I wouldn't call Tarkovsky's Solaris or Kubrick's 2001 genre movies even though they're obviously indebted to sci-fi's tropes.
The main point I'd make for my perspective is when someone asks for a recommendation for literary fiction, it isn't synonymous with asking for recommendations for good books -- they're referring to a certain 'type' of book.
Levi Jackson
It's not like non-genre fiction entirely avoids tropes either, though- it's just a different set, a subset, perhaps, of those in genre works. Working from established tropes or character archetypes in no way prevents a work from being interesting or revolutionary. And the idea that their tropes prevent any sense of learning or personal change from genre fiction in general is ridiculous, given the number of people that would claim to have been deeply personally influenced by, for a single example, Dune.
Easton Roberts
everything can be literature, everything else is genre or airport fiction
Adrian Garcia
I agree with both of these in different ways I wish I could think for myself
Aiden Ortiz
>t's just a different set, a subset, perhaps, of those in genre works Would you mind naming some tropes of literary fiction? Sorry for the late reply
Xavier Lee
>f these staples exist in any genre the work itself becomes that genre.
You're a complete brainlet. Crime & Punishment has elements of a crime novel (remember the actions of Porfiri the detective) and nobody would call it genre fiction.
Nathan Butler
I'd suggest court scenes, weddings, monologue througgout morning routine are tropes. They're not bad, obviously, just ways to frame the story. They can be abused, obviously, and especially are in a lot of genre stuff that focuses on its peculiarities over being decent literature, but don't by nature detract from a work being good literature.
James Sanchez
>and nobody would call it genre fiction. But it objectively is. Explain how it is not detective fiction despite containing elements of the genre.
Christopher Butler
Yes
Robert Diaz
This
The Road is post-apocalyptic One of the most specifically genre,(generally) schlocky, and overdone subsets of fiction. Yet you'd be hard pressed to find someone who doesnt consider it literary fiction
Joshua Murphy
>But one finishes a Le Carre novel with the same sense of self they had before. That's on the reader, not necessarily the writer. I'm sure there are people out there who are capable of reaching the same heights of self-reflection by watching a fucking Micheal Bay movie or reading James Patterson or maybe kid lit as one might by reading Pynchon.
Literary fiction is, in my opinion, just another genre with it's own tropes and conventions. It's just largely a genre for people with English literature degrees.
Holding up lit fic as some artistic ideal, saying that it is inherently above genre, is foolish and close-minded. There are people writing in both that are trying to push boundaries, or use fiction to understand the world, and there are people who are writing to entertain, or win awards. It's all the same.
Lit fic versus genre is a false divide propagated by critics who have too much education and not enough common sense, who are salty that people like popcorn fiction better than "serious" literature (and that they've wasted their lives, and know that they will never write great works).
Literary fiction cannot better people any more effectively then genre can, since it is the onus of the reader to be bettered by what he reads. There's not a book in the world that could better a man who is not open to being bettered. Conversely, a man who is truly open to betterment might find that in a child's picture book just as easily as the densest piece of literature.
Sebastian Walker
Or maybe I'm wrong, what the fuck do I know?
Lucas Carter
How do you all approach matter which is obviously fantastical in nature, but is nonetheless part of the Western Canon? Stuff like the Iliad, or the Arthurian romances, or the Divine Comedy? If you wanted to be a pedant you could classify it all as "fantasy," but we certainly don't, and it's a good thing we don't.
