Why does the West make you feel bad for wanting to kill yourself? Why is it always necessarily bad?

I have six degrees but nobody will hire me for even the most basic job in my industry. They want me to either die or be a homeless wageslave.

Imagine living in a society that didn't value life to the utmost degree. Imagine the myriad implications that would have. Therein lies the answer.

Should've just gone to a technical school, ya silly goose.

China?

You are not far from the truth, grasshopper.

Because it frees you from the burden of having to consider suicide as a viable alternative. Imagine living in an existential short story, always having to decide whether to kill yourself or have a cup of coffee.

>always having to decide whether to kill yourself or have a cup of coffee
2meirl4meirl

Because the West is informed by Christian morality even if people want to deny it, it's still the basis for our understanding of the world. Also social relationships will be destroyed with you premature death, it's simply not good for a social whole.

At the bottom of it all, I think people condemn what they fear, and condemning a suicide is projection of this fear, because what happens when your body dies is only inductively supposed to be oblivion but knowone knows. I wouldnt do it for the same reason I wouldnt take LSD at a loved one's funeral (I am scared of a bad trip).

>implying I wont destroy my social relationships before killing myself
Ill enjoy burning those bridges too until I realize how fucked I am

healthy social relationships may help you with your mental illness, have you considered that option?

Run twice a day and your depression will be cured within a month.

honestly dude, I'd rather die guilt free and allow for those implications to be present than continue dealing with an existence I have no interest in.

Experience is unique. Oblivion is sweeping.
No matter how painful life is, it is worth it. The nothingness of death is eternal, forever.

see

>Why does the West make you feel bad for wanting to kill yourself?
I don't think it does. I think it paints it as a tragedy. A suicide case is a lost soul rather than a pariah.
>Why is it always necessarily bad?
Probably just our christian roots. Japan was pretty down with killing yourself if you were a loser for a while. Probably a good way to go. If you're a NEET at the age of like 23 you should probably just murk yourself and we should foster an environment where that comes with little psychological pain for the NEET and their loved ones.

>that a dead person costs money instead of making money
Not universally though.

You think you're edgy but it comes off as caustic.

see

Thats what my therapist said too but then he proceeded to tell me about social media and snap chat like its how "healthy" relationships are made. I honestly felt better when I realized my online friends were just products of my interests at the time and were ultimately meaningless. I still vale my relationship with my family and thats one of the few things keeping me from killing myself.

What if I want to kill myself because I have a constant headache?

try microdosing shrooms

cause the machine needs workers to maintain itself

You made that thread yesterday right?
Try meditation and mind-power practices.

A prole can't find decent pot in my shithole country, let alone shrooms. I don't even have previous experience with pot or some connections.
Yes. I really don't like trying impactless, irelevant meme things.

Shrooms are incredibly easy to grow yourself
I dunno about the laws in your country but in the USA the spores are legal and easy to buy online

>Who are the Greeks
>Who are the Romans
Have you ever actually opened a book before?

>universally
but in most cases potentially

>impactless, irelevant meme things.
Nigga you're not gonna get better if you don't even try. Meditation is not a meme. If you're actually desperate you may as well try literal mind-power magic.

this is incredibly pathetic

Name 1 western thinker that thinks that suicide is a good thing. Seneca and the roman stoics don't count because that's a totally different situation from the one OP is probably in.

Normalfaggotry

Nigga I went to psychiatrist, neuropsychiatrist, neurologist, did MRI and EEG scan and paid $300 for it.
I don't care what wests think, especially not if I don't exist.

Hegesias of Cyrene

>Meditation is not a meme

I don't think you read post correctly, otherwise why would you make a post at all if you're already set on killing yourself?

I'm glad you'd damn everyone else to hell because you're feeling bad. Be a man and take responsibility for your actions instead of crying that society values life.

Whomst Schopenhauer?

Meditation is not what you think it is. Mindfulness is a better word for it. its literally what they teach to people with depression, anxiety, ect. Its not easy like taking pills everyday but its not a meme.

You don't experience nothing as 'eternal' or 'forever'. So you're wrong.

Can't find decent weed? Nigga what shithole do you live in, the Philippines?

>man
>responsibility
>actions

Don't exist

>mindfulness
>not a meme

Kek

He did, too, but nobody on this board actually read him so they think le funny pessimist philosophers must all encourage suicide.

It wouldn't be if you understood what was actually happening.

Looks like you never read him either LMAO ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/s/schopenhauer/arthur/pessimism/chapter3.html

yep we can't draw upon/benefit from your utility.

I didn't write to op, I wrote to the user that said "run twice a day and depression will cure" with which he was implying one would only want to kill himself because of depression and therefore the west has the right to make you feel bad for wanting to kill yourself.
Macedonia. Phillipines are a joke of a shithole compared to this.

>that a dead person costs money instead of making money.
not if they are on welfare
its only a "loss" if the suicide rate is so high that it creates gaps in the labor market

there are tonnes of different 'lenses' in which to approach the quesiton/answer it

for example, you could look at it through an evopscyh/natural selection applied to societies lense in that those societies that did not radically condemn suicide would not be those socieites that survive today. only those most life affirming cultures would outcompete the other cultures to be dominant (the west) on the world stage

or a capitalist reading - dead people aren't productive, and cost money (generally speaking)

or a religious reading - christianity (west religion) condemns it

or a robot9000 reading - normalfags are life affirming spookposters

or a psychological reading - people are terrified of death and condemn what they dont want to face

or a family reading - mothers want their sons to outlive them, people don't want their family memebers to die

>Why is it always necessarily bad?

is it? isn't this for you to decide?

>suicide is not a crime
>you should kill yourself
See the difference?
Killing yourself is pointless since your subjective existence is just a deception. In fact, it actually is counter-productive since suicide is will-affirming.

yes goy yes use tinder and lift shower while B-ing yourself

I mean we're talking ritualistic suicide with them right? Ofc plenty of Romans killed themselves, but only in the context of an honor culture that could believe dying by an enemy's hand was humiliating or something like that.

The world doesn't want you dead, you're just a histrionic faggot overdosing on your own feels.
Which is also why suicide is degenerate in 99% of cases.

The question is this: What change will death produce in a man’s existence and in his insight into the nature of things? It is a clumsy experiment to make; for it involves the destruction of the very consciousness which puts the question and awaits the answer.

Sounds like condemnation to me

It wants me worse than dead. It wants me subservient.

cry more
no man is greater than the world
you can't accept your limitations because they intrude upon your infantile power fantasies so you play the victim
grow up

I'd rather die fighting the world than live serving it. I would have made a lot of money for some lucky bastard, but they were insecure and stupid to a man. Oh well.

>I'd rather die fighting the world than live serving it.
You have to be at least 18 to post on this site.

I'm 29

lol schizo blind rat projecting

Hey stoicism says suicide is fine, just go with that

you forgot Christian morality

>the ancients
>the existentialists
>the postmodernists

Only the Christian thinkers were anti suicide

This is bullshit. Your own life is yours and yours only.If you want to fuck it up taking drugs, you are free top do so, no one can tell you to live differently cause its not their own fucking life.

And listen up. No one asked you if you wanted to live in the first place. Your parrents just got horny and decided to have you. Now to quote Blake:

Every night and every morn
Some to misery are born
Every morn and every night
Some are born to sweet delight
Some are born to sweet delight
Some are born to endless night

And none of them asked for it

Also read pic related

Someone else decided to get pregnant and pop me out into this world. I

Christian morality is just self-serving pragmatism combined with irrational premises

I mean it's had it's hold on western culture

The Greco-Romans only had suicides for the nobles (peasants didn't commit suicide - they had no self-awareness)

suicide started being a bad thing after Christianity

the ancient world thought it was courageous noble thing to do (Socrates, Antisthenes, Cato, Antony)

You're a child

I deadass think that if you're 23 and have made no attempts at getting higher education or any kind of gainful employment in your life, you should just end it.

There's a difference between being down and out, but if you've never had a job or educational experience despite being 5 years into adulthood, you're probably not a very interesting or productive person.

not him but he does have a point

the biggest antis to capitalist modernity often has elements of childishness (romanticism, beats, situationists, early internet, fucking early Veeky Forums)

>recommending suicide to sufferers betrayed by the system rather than changing the system (which is trash) itself

The system is trash which is why I said
>made no attempts

Being down and out is fine, especially in an economy and higher education system as shit and corrupted by capitalism as the USA's. I'm just talking about people who don't help their parents out if they live at home, make no attempts at getting a job, no attempts at even community college, make no attempts to even create something for themeselves. If you've been on earth for 23 years and do nothing but beat your cock and consume cheap entertainment, gleefully bleeding your parents dry, you were a botched attempt at a real human been and should feel no guilt or shame in ending it.

i have trouble disputing this

on the one hand NEETs tend to be higher iq autists so asking them to do pro-social things is rather stupid

on the other hand getting a 20 hour a week job and taking comm college classes is super fucking easy and people who can’t do even this are just awful

Most NEETs have made some sort of attempt though. In studies of Japanese hikikomori, there's usually a precipitating event of extreme academic or social failure that led the hikikomori to shut themselves off from society. Being afraid to interact with those around you is a learned behavior, not a natural one. You write it off as laziness because you yourself are too lazy to entertain alternative possibilities to your fascist fantasy

I have an issue with your participatory, work ethic

For me these people being anti-social is better than lame job, school "create something for themselves"

IQ doesn't mean shit if you don't do anything with it.

That whole
>I'm smart i just don't apply myself
thing is absolute bullshit. So you're saying you actually have better "tools" than everyone else, but just don't use them? You're a moron then.

Same with when people fail a class because "they don't get along with the professor."

Psilocybin mushrooms grow naturally nearly everywhere, and are easy to find, identify and collect with a bit of research. Microdosing I'm not sure about, but a full low-dose experience has extensively been documented to "pop" cluster headaches. Don't know about other types though, but I would look into it if I were you; either way, a single trip, under the right conditions (safe location+presence of a trusted person) can help tremendously when it comes to the psychological aspects of pain, as well as depression/suicidal thoughts.

If one were to go out looking for wild mushrooms you better fucking have someone with you who knows what the fuck they are talking about otherwise if you eat the wrong mushroom your fucked.

i disagree and agree; iq demonstrably correlates with ability to handle high cognitive loads, informatiob processing speed; but high iq people often are incapable of intuiting information or making connections where they should and as you said can be crippled by autism and low conscientiousness. the other problem being that high iq people are often not great at the other metrics iq is supposed to measure. ive met people with extremely high verbal who can’t do fucking calc, and ive met people who are mathematicians who write like 8th graders and can’t understand poetry or abstract art, have ridiculous opinions about politics and are not good at designing experiments or formulating scientific theories. i would say after about 120 it starts to be extremely hit or miss metric for measuring intelligence. Doing something with your life is best measured by C and parental educational attainment. My point was more higher iq autistics can tell when something is a waste of time or know how to exploit social support nets to indefinitely parasite off of their companions and benefactors.

But, returning to the idea of suicidal NEETs most of them are not actually higher than 1 SD above avg for their race. So, the question arises are they right for wanting to opt out, are they defective? Hard to say when employed and enrolled people seem to be so miserable

>hur dur suicide isn't suicide when I don't want it to be

Obviously my opinion is based on personal sentiment. If I still lived with my mom and didn't have a job I'd probably kill myself. It just feels like a useless existence.

>Being afraid to interact with those around you is a learned behavior, not a natural one. You write it off as laziness because you yourself are too lazy to entertain alternative possibilities to your fascist fantasy

You're right.

We should create systems to minimize this, I agree. Social programs should be in place that allow people similar to hikikomoris to live with dignity. I don't know how we can change social dynamics to avoid the situations of bullying and ostracizing that lead to many adults ending up with social anxieties.
I don't want to offer some fucked up "final solution," this is all hypothetical. Again, if you're down and out, the world dealt you a shit hand, then I feel for you. I was trying to talk about people who are just straight up lazy, willfully leeching. There's no way to tell who's who though, so I'm happy to support the leeches if it means millions of others get their bread and roses.

Thank you for pointing out my bullshit, my guy.

>So, the question arises are they right for wanting to opt out, are they defective
Not him but I think yes, they should be encouraged to leech and drop out

Something anti-social, why contribute to the smooth functioning of society? It just seems like what a high-minded philosopher would have leaned towards

Wrong, he thought Suicide was retarded because it is an act of affirmation of the will to live, the man who kill himself "wants life but he's unhappy with the conditions he is in" (I don't remember the exact quote)

We're two different people but yeah, I don't know either, our culture and way of life is way too exclusionary to novel or outsider beliefs and forms of life (I'm not talking about LGBT, I mean true outsider, or maybe not even that outside... most alienated people today would've been just normal people in previous ages)

I've always had a vague fantasy of reforming school curriculum to teach young children empathy somehow. I have no idea how that'd work. I'm pretty sure all these little kids with smart phones are going to grow up as vicious sociopaths.

>I'm not talking about LGBT, I mean true outsider
I'm sure you realize how much overlap these two categories have.

Im an oldfag and I've been taking on the challenge of a fucked up life in a fucked up world for 40 years- Ive dropped out twice, living in the fucking streets cause no way Imma take the bullshit of modern civilization and conform to it just because my mom and dad had an itch.

The times i've tried to live a normal life it made me suicidal. You can call me childish as much as you like, but I bet you never stared death in the eyes, or had to sleep under bridges, or had knives on your throat or, so forth and so forth and so forth.

My life is mine, and I live it like I want to. Moral responsibilities sure, but first and foremost I am responsible to my own mental health and my own feeling of peace and henceforth happyness. That means nobody can tell me what the fuck to do or how the fuck to live it.

And it took me 35 years to realize that.

How old are you?

You are definitely a child

murder > suicide

Because it's usually defeatism done under untrustworthy circumstances in a way that hurts other people.

Taking your life in to your own hands and living it the way you want to is childish now? Does doing what other people tell you to do make you feel like a mature person. kids do what grown ups tell them to. Grown ups choose for themselves. If they wanna die they take their own life, and they are entitled to do so.