There isn't a single philosopher who has soundly proven that the external world exists

There isn't a single philosopher who has soundly proven that the external world exists.

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My externality plumbed you're moms internal world desu

>There isn't a single philosopher who has soundly proven that the OP exists.

Even if you were a brain in a jar, or were living in a simulation, there would still need to be a world external to you in which that jar-brain or simulation could exist or be run.

You're sitting in a movie theater. The seating is full. You are completely focused on the movie. Something in the movie makes you laugh. Several other people in the audience laugh as well.

How do solipsists explain this phenomenon?

No, all you need is a mind and some experience/sense data and boom. The brain in a vat thing is just a colorful illustration.

>when you laugh, the world laughs with you. When you cry, you cry alone
Fuckers

No different than two leaves falling from a tree.

I'm actually publishing a paper on the subject right now. It's being peer reviewed as we speak.

One of my interesting discoveries was that OP himself does not exist. I demonstrate this by first showing OP's immense faggotry, which is so massive that it would simply be impossible for such a person to actually exist.

From there I conclude that if we can observe that OP is a faggot it stands there are observers, which do in fact exist. Hence someone can said to exist only if they think OP is fag.

just other people being used to trick the POV you have, no different than the idea of other objects causing you to feel a certain way. you find the concept of simulating yourself alone feasible but boring, simulating yourself+bots is much more feasible and considerably less boring. it makes sense you’d want to immerse yourself in the sim as long as possible

I'm a solipsist and I think I found a solution to this.
Remember the old riddle: If a tree falls down in a forest and no one is there to hear it fall, does it produce a sound?
The solipsist answer: No.
In my mind, people and objects only exist as long as there is an outsider(me) to observe them. I call this the observer effect. When I cease observing something, it ceases to exist

I don't understand what you mean. Are you arguing for solipsism? How could you sense or experience anything if there weren't something to sense or experience? If there are data, that implies something that can be quantified abstractly, and homogeneous units, to be applicable, must apply to something, so the existence of sense data would seem to imply that there are objects in the world.

What about when I'm in class and the professor says "he was a big guy" when describing someone's stature and I start laughing really hard and everyone stares at me?

>When I cease observing something, it ceases to exist
Is that solipsism though? The act of "observing something" implies an external thing to observe.

Let's put it this way. Imagine that you are in a procedurally generated video game. The only are that truly exist is the one you are in, anything outside a certain radius is just empty with no features or textures. When you begin walking in a certain direction, things start to appear, while the are you left behind ceases to be there. The same applies here. Things temporarily exist when i can observe them, and cease to exist when i no longer observe them. If I die, there is no observer, so nothing exists

Lmao nice Cartesian problematic
you were lost from the start

Kant, "The Refutation of Idealism" in the first Critique

^

>solipsist
>brings up video games
Why do they always do this?

it's an easy metaphor that even brainless can understand

and you still dont have free will

The external world is literally bombarding you with data all the time, if you just don't start theorizing from retarded groundworks then you'll have no problem understanding that

Grug no hear tree, tree no make sound when grug not there

Here, have this

I get all that. But the problem remains: where are these other things popping in from? If it all comes from the brain, why is there a factor of spontaneity at all? It's a very strange idea to me.

What about Jordan Petersons take on William James's pragmatism?

> It's true if holding it (acting in accordance with it) gives reproductive advantages over huge swaths of time.

At least it makes free will real and nuclear weapons untenable. And numbers are real. And it makes the outside world is real.

I might be basing this on some silly assumption (aside from taking Memeson seriously). If so, please point it out.

Ravaging aliens with malnutritioned intentions raining down the skys with funky songs being played in their invasion cells and there being tribal dance to which the aliens vibed clearly and undoubtedly males and females and their hands being raised above their heads waving left and right in rhythm to the music with little electro birds chirping rhytmically in cute high-pitched tones, this was the invasion dance. And as the cells broke through the skin that kept the world from suffocating the presidents on all of earth were putting on their rollerblades and entered the hidden caverns that lead to the SUPER HQ beneath the world, among the core and their woman were tending the babies, the babies were very demanding and one of them was Baby Mambo a baby with the genetic code to provide him supernatural strengths as if god himself had invested all of his powers into the forming of this baby, but it died because a virus entered it's system and all physical strength which is strength that exerts itself can not help you when your internal system is invaded by viruses and this death was seen as a foreboding side for the imminent decay of mankind under their new rulership of the aliens and female media people had hysteric breakdowns because they were afraid of what the aleins could do to them and insulted and scratched the males faces because why weren't they able to do anything and why were they so weak and unmanly and all the man were resigning to their fate and tried to make impressions of obedient slaves but not the presidents who ran down the stairs with their roller blades which made 3 of them slip and fall down the stairs breaking their necks. One of them was the president of the united states who screamed OUCH very loudly and broke various bones. The aliens heard this scream and now found out where the presidents were hiding as to organize the resistance so they sent down drills through the earth crust crushing the whole beneatheworld-place and all the presidents died terrible deaths without even having met for their first resistance meeting. It was very clear now that EARTH was defeated by the aliens. The aliens were very happy about their conquest and all the men laid down their weapons and put their hands up because they always recognize when a new alpha male is in town even though the aliens were lean and had no consciousness of the radical temporality of fatness, they didn't know fattime yet but the men of earth did and so they commited to feeling the fat, to witness the space expanding outwards and engage in this new temporality which denied all notimeness of capitalism as being an empty and dehumanized temporality. The Aliens didn't care about fat time at all though and organized a concert at the capital of earth: New York, and there Ryuichi Sakamoto appeared and exposed his face by ripping away the fake mask that made him look like a japanese for half a century and he stared playing the alien hymn a song named plastic bamboo, aliens dancin

You want proof of the external world?

Try ignoring it and pretending it doesn't exist. Enjoy getting fucked over.

Seriously, how retarded are some of you?

>Big man in sky maybe see tree all time, grugg think ok

really?
so all the planets in the solar system aren't there? what about China, does that exist or is it not happening?

it exists as longs a I observe it. I'm not observing it at the moment, so it doesn't exist
They are formed from the subconscious to maintain a world with an internal consistent logic

>it exists as longs a I observe it. I'm not observing it at the moment, so it doesn't exist
That's a bold statement coming from something as small as a human being
this is why its important to be humble

You can just call it experience then. I'm saying that nothing is necessary to explain our experience and that we just have it. Solipsism is very possible.

>I'm not observing it at the moment, so it doesn't exist
Is this solipsism meme the true mark of the brainlet?

>implying anyone has overcome Descartes

And don't bring up Heidi because he just avoids the problem.

You forget Beowulf

t. never studied philosophy

>human being
The entire universe revolves around me. If I die, there is no observer, so the universe stops existing. I'm an analog to God if you will
I understand your frustration that you're really just an NPC for me to interact with, and that you only have a small role to play and limited script to contribute to the grand narrative epic that is my life.

>he doesn't realize that he's just an npc in my world

Have you tried walking onto the highway with your eyes shut, not observing the world around you so it doesn't exist?

umm, sorry sweetie but the false narrative that your parents taught you that "everyone is the protagonist/hero of their own story" is false. I can't put myself in anyone else shoes, so how can I confirm that anyone else possesses a consciousness? For all I know, my life is the grand narrative, spanning for ages from my birth till my death, interacting with a myriad characters, some small, some big.

but you just accept that language can express things? or is the 'external world' nutt more than some symbols that cause you to feel ('think') something?

right but I also have a conscious the same as you, am I lying?

this desu. I get derealization only when I've been comfortable and smoking weed for too long. A headache, a phone full of missed calls or a loud grating noise is all it takes to pull be back in to the external world. I'm not saying the philosophical debates are a waste of time or that the external world is real, it's just damn real enough that it's pretty hard to dismiss it when it's punching you in the face.

Ortega Y Gasset

You don't have to study philosophy to see that his point is just retarded.

my brain is fucking rotting from reading this post

most likely. Anyways, i can't prove either way

>You don't have to study philosophy to see that his point is just retarded.

You'd be surprised.

t. comfy faggot who has never faced hardship

...

What the fuck are you talking about? What does my living condition have to do with solipsism?
Read a book, nigger, start with Sophie's World

>In my mind, people and objects only exist as long as there is an outsider(me) to observe them.
My non-existent ass rose from the chaos to tell you to go tongue your mother's salty clam, dumb solipsist user.

Goodbye world, I return to nothingness. *poof*

Read Berkeley, you absolute plebs. esse est percipi.

then read Hume sweep the floor
then read Kant open a can on Hume

Suppose this is actually the case. Things only exist if you are aware of them. Suppose there are two open rooms, and a long wall in-between them. You have no means to observe what's behind the wall. The wall itself is not in-between the rooms, but the space behind it is. You go into both rooms and see that they are enclosed, and that their edges closest to our wall are perpendicular to the wall.

Because you cannot observe the space behind the wall, those two rooms have nothing between them, and are adjacent. But the wall has a distance that is non-zero. How is this resolved?

it is to be expected. Everything and everyone that exists has a purpose. Everyone has a role, including you. Your role was to insult me, you are an obstacle or villain, in the hero's journey. Solipsism is actually a great philosophy. All those hard and complicated ethical dilemmas become simple to me. Since I'm the hero of this narrative, all my actions are moral and anyone who opposes me is amoral/evil.

You don't really believe this though

Bane?

This is the best response to that. Good job, user. Gold star.

I'm confused as to your enquiry. As i understand it, there are two rooms separated by a wall. I cannot be in the two rooms at the same time. If I walk into one room, I cannot observe the other, so it does not exist and vice-versa if I enter the other room. Is that it?

I think you missed the bit where that user rose out of nothingness MUST ALSO HAVE BEEN an aspect of you, since you are the only thing that exists.

>mfw freud was right and you're quite literally a forever alone fag with mommy issues

Solipsism is stupid, but he's right about the tree in a forest: a vibration is created, sure, but only an ear can turn that vibration into sound. Sound literally does not exist without perception. In the (surprisingly scientific) phrase of Wordsworth:
> of all the mighty world
>Of eye, and ear,—both what they half create
>And what perceive

Videogames are the only thing fedoralords are most familiar with.

no one said I was perfect. The grand narrative would be quite boring if I was amaro Sue that did everything with ease. But that will remedy with time and character development, meanwhile, you ceased to exist

Stevie this is your conscience. You can't really believe in solipsism, because that would mean you are crazy. A crazy person. You would treat others strangely because the viral idea that you can't trust them is implicit in your genetics and now also growing fiendishly in your head.

Stop being a brainlet. Engage with reality AS IF IT WERE real, and not just an ultimate quality vidya gaem where you are right and everyone else is NPCs. Or continue, and discover that you were the NPC all along.

Daily reminder that solipsism is a mental illness.

>implying you can't be killed by an idea
Nice try though

You can look into both of them and inspect their contents via mirrors.

I cannot. Solipsism gives my life meaning. It acknowledges my existence and everything that has happened until now is important. It posits that there is an end goal that I'm moving towards to and that we don't live in a cold, chaotic and uncaring universe

>this whole idea makes my derealization worse

It's been a year and two months and I still don't feel like I'm even in my body.
I have no control and I barely feel I exist myself.

Suicide soon.

Um... ok all you did was explain what solipsism, is now qualify it

but user, I am here. you don't need to wear my armor Patroclus. I am the only thing that is important, and you share in my experience. You're the cream in my coffee user. I love you, and I have a plan for you. As I do for everyone.

It's like you haven't read any philosophy from the past 300 years.

let's have a song, user

youtube.com/watch?v=m-6m2CC0pPM

Are you being completely sincere? I feel like you are just pretending you believe this to help yourself cope with whatever angst you are feeling. Either stop this delusion now before you end up completely mentally ill or provide some irrifutable proof for your claim.

>I love you
Then why did you let all those horrible things happen to me? Why did you make my parents divorce? Where were you when I almost killed myself after the relentless bullying in high school? You turned your back on me, and so I turn my back on you. You'll have to send a sign or an outright miracle to make me believe you care for me again

I realize you're baiting, but no, it doesn't give you an end goal, or meaning. Ignoring its internal contradictions, solipsism makes everything completely arbitrary since there is no external reason for you to make anything exist other than "I wanna." The end goal doesn't exist because you haven't observed it yet. All the important things that happened don't exist because you can't currently observe them. Causality doesn't exist because there can be no connection between events in time, since the preceding event doesn't exist. There is no great moment that you can be moving towards, because there's nothing to move to and nothing to push you there necessarily. If something cool happens it's completely arbitrary.

That feeling is positive considering your body never actually belonged to you. Consider this experience an advantageous perspective you have over other persons.

The idea that you are even still conscious at all is proof that our God is a merciful God.

What's the point of suicide if you aren't in your body?

i just realized you and every other fag that takes philosophy seriously is no different from religious retards

pick up a science book you backwards retards

Not really. My existence is miserable, it would be more merciful to end it or to stop my suffering. The things that happened to me haven't made me an atheist. I believe a higher power does exist, but it isn't benevolent, and I will not worship it until it proves otherwise

>I am conscious of my own existence as determined in time. All determination with regard to time presupposes something permanent in perception. But this permanent something cannot be something in me, for the very reason that my existence in time itself is determined by this permanent something. It follows that the perception of this permanent existence is possible only through a thing without me, and not through the mere representation of a thing without me. Now, consciousness in time is necessarily connected is necessarily connected with the possibility of this determination in time. Hence it follows, that consciousness in time is necessarily connected with the existence of things without me, inasmuch as the existence of these things is the condition of determination in time. That is to say, the consciousness of my own existence is at the same time an immediate consciousness of the existence of other things without me.

if you hate philosophy so much and love science so much, I have a board that you'll love

no

Being an Infinite... all things come to pass, and they do pass. Sensory experience is suffering. You are such a small creature, user, and the world I made is so big. I'm sorry. Mortals should have tossed away the problem of evil, or better not stolen it from me. I have faith in you, user, and I hope you find comfort in me.

but how will he strawman and misunderstand people's positions all while maintaining a smug sense of superiority on Veeky Forums? i don't think you thought this through user.

Kant BTFO

you should be responsible for your own creation. Otherwise you give the impression that you do not care if your creation destroys itself or not

You are forcing your eyes shut out of spite user. The state of being you are currently in is proof enough. Enjoy this subjective experience while you have it and you might finally get laid.

Benevolence, Goodness, Right, and Wrong, these are things that can only objectively exist on the basis that there is some final arbiter who (or that, if you don't believe in a personal God) defines what they are. To say that this arbiter is not benevolent is an inherent contradiction. Benevolence is not some higher law that the arbiter is subjected to, Benevolence is whatever the arbiter wants it to be. God is good because God is God, God is not just good because God does good things.

I'm sorry to hear that you're suffering.

>"hurr durr I kik a rok, is reel

You have died of dysentery.

youre looking for objective truth through an outdated medium for questions that have already been answered

I have hands

Except it is impossible for the creation to destroy itself. The only thing an object can do is change form.

>tfw ive had my moment of clarity when i realised that as much power i was using to destroy myself i could use to build myself and others

Hardly able to enjoy the experience when all I experience is pain, with small moments of respite. Those are the cruelest ones.
even if God is above human morals, as far as I'm concerned, I will not worship a deity who does not work for my own interests. Even if you are above us in the grand scheme of things, we are not. Your nature has blinded you to the plight of lesser beings.
There is a 100% chance that at one moment humanity will cease to exist. The Bible says we are special among His creation. God contradicts himself

I can't help but think that when solipsists deny an external world they are just broken egos seeking to wall themselves in from some terrible secret anxiety they harbor. No one who actively participates and competes in the world denies it, so who would do such a thing, other than people with a chip on their shoulder?

It is a great feeling.

We have Reason. We have language, and civilization, and the compassion. WE ARE SPECIAL. How much more special do you want to be really.