Can We Talk About Raymond Carver, Please?

Can We Talk About Raymond Carver, Please?

Sure. You talk, I'll edit it down to a point where it doesn't even sound like you anymore, and then we'll play some self-referential game where we guess how much is you and how much is me in what we're talking about when we talk about authorship.

Who's with him in that pic?

I prefer Carvers minimalism to Hemingway, I think. My favourite story is Errand, about Chekhov's death.

Gordon Lisch And Raymond Carver Had A Falling Out In The Spring Of 1983, And Their Personal And Professional Relationship Ended. Robert Gottlieb Became Carver's Editor Afterwards.

It's His Brother, James Carver. You May Already Know This But Carver Did Not Consider Himself A "Minimalist". Carver Wrote: "There's something about 'minimalist' that smacks of smallness of vision and execution that I don't like."

Thanks, but I don't give a fuck what he considered himself. I know neither of those authors would have used the term minimalist to describe themselves, but a lot of the time in literary discussion we use helpful generic or technique terms to describe things regardless if the original creator would have had that in mind. Are you new to this whole thing?

It Seems Like You Did Not Already Know That. You're Welcome.

What a fucking dork 2bh

Tryhard.

Literally the one thing you can't call Raymond Carver is a tryhard. He tried at nothing. He flunked out of the Iowa Writer's Workshop for god's sake

He quit alcohol. He considered that his biggest achievement in life.

>not Could We Please Talk About Raymond Carver When We Talk About Raymond Carver, Please?
One job

But what are we talking about when we talk about Raymond Carver?

You'd get it if you had read him.

What is it that you're trying to articulate? I'm a little drunk right now but I have read him

True, and that is undeniably an achievement, but I mean like academically and socially and careerwise. He could barely finish a BA in a humanities field from a third tier state university, abused his wife, and failed to capitalize on recognition of his obvious talent until fairly late in life

I'd like to say that I admire him in case this isn't coming across

>his biggest achievement is not doing something
lmao

Carver's style was so heavily influenced by his editor, Gordon lish, that carver's entire body of work should be credited to carver and lish

Yeah, I get what you're trying to say. He was no DFW, I mean he had two kids by the age of 19.

I'd say quitting an addiction is proactive.
.
Untrue. What about all of his work written pre and post Lisch? I guess we can have a debate in this thread if whether Lisch's edited stories were better. Have you read the uncut editions in Beginners?

carver's entire "punchy succinct" style for which he is lauded is thanks to lisch. read "whagt we talk about...." before lisch gets his mitts on it. the difference is night and day. I think i prefer carver's version

Yes, I already mentioned Beginners. That's the popular conception of his style, but the user above was saying his body of work should be credited to Lisch which is going too far.

FWIW I prefer the Lisch edited stories.

why the FUCK does this board hate Iowa so much god damn

For my first couple of years as an undergrad, I had a gimmick to help write stronger introductions to my essays. I'd begin pretty much all of them with the line 'What do we talk about when we talk about [essay subject]?', which is just erudite/poetic enough to get the plaudits of easily impressed faculty members without veering into pretentious territory. Never failed me, for which I owe a debt of gratitude to Chandler.