Which translation? I heard Jowett is the best

Which translation? I heard Jowett is the best.

Every dialogue will have its own "best".
What this best looks like will depend on what you are after. You can expect at least two or three really good translations per major dialogue.

Jowett is no longer the standard. His was celebrated because it was comprehensive and uniform. Today, if you want to buy a single authoritative volume, you get Plato: Complete Works. It has completly displaced Jowett in all but the book store bargain tomes.

Are you interested in a specific dialogue?
I can probably help narrow things down for you.

I want to start with Plato, but I want one work. I don't want to be overwhelmed.

Bu Complete Works and read front to back then back to front you worm.

It's expensive as fuck and it's huge. I want one normal sized book that I can move around easily.

For better or worse, The Republic has become the definitive Platonic dialogue of the modern world. It would make a fine starting point. That it has become a sort of cultural touchstone makes it easy to recommend.

I'd get the Waterfield translation. The language is nice--not too stilted or too abrupt. It's inexpensive. It's fairly substantial at 560 pages. The notes at the back are good. It will give you a good taste of what Plato's about (metaphysics, political thought, etc.).

If you want something a bit easier to digest or something more Socratic, I'd look at "Defence of Socrates, Euthyphro, Crito" translated by Gallop. It's also in the Oxford World's Classic collection. This one is about the same price of The Republic mentioned above, but comes in at 160 pages making it a relatively bad deal, but an easier read. This one makes a great starting point for its iconic characterizations of Socrates. Plus, it comes with more than one dialogue which is nice. "Defence of Socrates" is elswhere called Apology and is all about Socrates standing up to his accusers.

The works of philosophy are not something for you take around so you can act smart infront of people. It is to be studied.

Thanks. I think I will get both.

I didn't say it's to take around people. I never read in the same place. Sometimes at my desk, sometimes on my sofa, sometimes in bed. Sometimes even in the shower or bath.

Phaedo is a great "lite" dialogue at around 100 pages if you wanna test the waters before diving into the Republic

If you really must narrow it down to one of Plato's work as an introduction, I pick Phaedo. Really though, I'd start off with Euthyphro, Apology, Crito, Phaedo, then the Republic. The Republic kind of assumes you know a little bit about Plato's beliefs.

Is Plato still relevant in any real sense beyond just "check this guy out if you want to know how it all started"

Philosophy should be studied in order since the ideas are constantly building off of each other, philosophy is like one huge discussion. The majority of philosophers/authors that are worth reading have read and are influenced by the Greeks.

>mogs you

So, no.

Is he not relevant to those who see truth in his words?

What has he said that wasnt said more truthfully by someone later?

Yes, absolutely. The Greeks are still relevant, not just because they pretty much laid the foundation for everything else literary in the Western world to come, because a lot of their ideas are still relevant to this day and absolutely still hold up. Because Plato was where everything started, if you read his works, you have a solid grasp of almost all of Western philosophy.

His entire approach to reality continues to exert an undeniable influence on those taken by it.

You could argue that others have better articulated aspects of his thought, but that would be missing the point. Plato isn't celebrated for his articulations or detailed analyses. He's celebrated for his mastery of the dialogue form. Not only does he forcefully put forward all sorts of interesting ideas, but he does it in such a way that you have to disentangle, extrapolate, make connections, etc.

In short, Plato is relevant for putting forward ideas in a way that encourages further thought and development. In this way, he is an eternal wellspring.

That's the thing, different people have built upon Plato's ideas, but almost all of their ideas came from Plato, or Aristotle, or Pythagoras, or Epicurus, or any of the other Greek philosophers at some point.

>Platonic forms

...

I read the Desmond Lee translation with Melissa lane introduction, now sure how great that one is considered.

>Finally, we should remember that the Republic is not a straightforward exposition of Plato’s theories; it is a web of provocations, tensions, and suggestions. Its narrator, Socrates, makes dubious arguments, cracks jokes, reverses himself, expresses doubts, refuses to state his opinions on crucial topics, and is challenged again and again by questions that move the dialogue in new directions. The book has beauty and unity, but not the consistency of a treatise. Whether or not one subscribes to some particular theory of esoteric writing, there is good reason to be suspicious of any claims that “Plato believes x,” “Plato argues y,” or “Plato commits fallacy z.”

What the fuck!?
How is this allowed?

because Plato was a brainlet writing fan fiction

I ended up ordering "the last days of Socrates". Comes with euthyphro, apology, crito, and phaedo in one book.

Good choice

Gorgias is better

Excellent choice, probably the best intro to Plato I M O

G R U B E
R
U
B
E

I've been reading the Bloom translation and comparing with the Grube and I'd say the Grube is a bit more readable but Bloom's has a reputation for being faithful. Either of those would be fine I think.

I came here just to post this. Absolutely avoid Jowett and Waterfield, choose between Grube/Reeve and Bloom.

I'm sick of this stupid shit.

You read old stuff, like old mathematics, economics, or philosophy, because it actually DOES have relevance. Whether you like it or not, reading Plato's Republic would help you understand the U.S. Constitution better, reading The General Theory would help you understand the last debt crisis better, and finally reading Euclid's Elements will help you understand contemporary mathematical proofs better.

You dolt, everything has a purpose, we don't just 'move beyond' everything previously. Sometimes we need to return to prior understand. That's why you're seeing a resurgence in the belief of God. It is this very sort of trend which is so important. A trend to check the absolute dogmatic assertions of modern academia that they know everything there is to know.

I would've gone with Hackett's Five Dialogues, which comes with those dialogues, along with Meno. Also, the same translations in the Hackett version are also included in the Complete Works, so if you like it and want more, you can buy the complete dialogues.
Phaedrus, Symposium, and especially Gorgias should be read after Phaedo, but before the Republic. Gorgias is like a prelude to Republic.

How important is it to have a good translation?

The trick is avoiding the older translations. Newcomers get these because they are often free or inexpensive.

These tend to be more difficult to read and so are best avoided.