Its no secret that Bolaño feels he owes A LOT to Borges, and that Borges is in fact THE latinamerican writer...

Its no secret that Bolaño feels he owes A LOT to Borges, and that Borges is in fact THE latinamerican writer. Borges gave Bolaño some kind words too, lets recall Borges abhorred novels. Now, where can you see the Borges in Bolaño? Anyone here has done that analysis? I feel theres something, the very obvious ficticious bibliographies of books with ridiculous names, the invention of writers, but what else? There should be lots more but i cant put the finger on it.

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how do people smoke so much

i smoke 3 cigarettes and i feel like my lungs are giving up on me

>Borges gave Bolaño some kind words too

Wrong. Borges was dead long before Bolaño was on the map. He never read him. We can see the Borgesian influence in his prose, in his lack of flowery language, as opposed to the floriture of say, García Márquez. Also, in the references to literature and writers, as opposed to authors who never talk about or reference lit like GGM, again. His book Nazi Literature in the Americas was heavily inspired by Borges' Universal History of Infamy (and both were influenced by Schwob's Imaginary Lives).

>I feel theres something, the very obvious ficticious bibliographies of books with ridiculous names, the invention of writers
Thats it
The literary relationship between those two is really overhyped

I think of GGM as closer to Borges than Bolano because of his matter-of-fact way of telling a story. He approaches the surreal very matter-of-factly, without acknowledging the possibility that the reader might think it's unrealistic. Bolano shoves it in your face when he does something out of left field.

I think Bolaños depiction of dreams is boring, long and unrealistic

No, the fantastic things and events in Borges short stories like The Aleph are treated like fantastic things, a corner in a house where you can see the entire universe is an extraordinary event. In GGM fantastic things are treated like everyday things (magical realism), a baby born with a pig's tail is nothing extraordinary, it is accepted. I can't really see them as similar, besides being from Latin America and dealing with fantasy (in different ways).

What Bolaño book has dream descriptions?

Fuentes is better than Bolano. Fight me.

Who cares

Certainly not this board. People on here don't even read Bolano's poetry.

Bolaño writes labyrinths but guts them to where the connections between things are shaky and ambiguous, and as a result there's a real spooky atmosphere of alienation and exile as opposed to Borges where it tends to centralize the narrative and give anchors even if it's not quite explained. Bolaño means to feel unanchored and scary for being so.

Not really.

OP, I will tell you the trick but only in Spanish: la gran deuda de Bolaño con Borges consiste en adoptar un estilo prosáico clásico, completamente opuesto a la miasma romántica que estructura sus enunciados y párrafos en lo que en inglés se conoce como "show don't tell," esto es decir que tanto el argentino como el chileno muestran cierto desprecio por la escena y una preferencia por el contar.

If you have more questions luego luego

I've read a few of his poems, but then again I'm Mexican. In fact I'm looking for a poem of his where a queen kills his king.

If i'm not mistaken Bolano considered himself as a poet first. I can't remember where I got that quote from though.

Yeah, it's sorta what said, the influence is in the prose.

Yes, I believe he said that when he saw his poetry and his prose, the poetry made him blush less.

>tfw understand 2/3 of this
I really need to make the final push into reading spanish and quit being a brain/lit/

>la gran deuda de Bolaño con Borges consiste en adoptar un estilo prosáico clásico, completamente opuesto a la miasma romántica que estructura sus enunciados y párrafos en lo que en inglés se conoce como "show don't tell," esto es decir que tanto el argentino como el chileno muestran cierto desprecio por la escena y una preferencia por el contar.

The great debt Bolaño has with Borges consists in adopting a prosaic classic style, completely opposed to the romantic miasma structuring his sentences and paragraphs in what is known as "show don't tell" in English, this is to say that both the Chilean and the Argentine show a certain disdain for the scene and a preference for the telling.

oh I get that, I was just surprised how close to being literate in spanish I am and that I'm a doofus for not going further with it.

That's why I wrote it in Spanish. Que Dios lo bendiga, user.

Saludos (though I am not the aforementioned Mexican).

-Mexa in the US

Are you Mexican Mexican or Mexican-American?

Yo no soy marinero, soy capitán, soy capitán.

...

Mexican Mexican, then. You're good to go. I doubt Mexican-Americans even read.

Noice thread

Borges was the first major spanish language writer to strip down and 'dry out' his writing. A little like hemmingway for english lit. Bolano is indebted to him, in this sense.

Moreover, Borges stripped back writing by nonchalantly Telling, rather than showing. He will barely ever evoke a scene. This gives his writing a strangely sober-yet-unreal quality. Bolano varicates between the telling and showing, and sometimes contradicts his telling and showing. Basically, because the narrator never has a stable 'position' in the narratologically, were constantly on our toes, with a feeling of dread and entropy.

I've never met a Mexican who wasn't stupid and/or a menial laborer

You must live in the US. Immigrants are the scum we "send". The lowest of the low.

This guy
?

How do people smoke at all?
I don't even smoke and feel like I could die any moment

The Museum of Eterna's Novel by Macedonio Fernández

What about this guy. And to respond to the thread in general Fictitious history came from people like Marcel Schwob and Pessoa. Borges did more with it but they started it

The fact that Jitrik and Schvartzman decided to make a full volume just dedicated to Macedonio should give you a hint about the importance of his writing in argentinian literature. Borges tried to erase his figure while paying respects. You can see that in the way that he dismissed about Macedonio's writing, while putting the emphasis on the influence of his 'oral persona'

>I feel theres something, the very obvious ficticious bibliographies of books with ridiculous names, the invention of writers,

Doesn't this go back to Rabelais? He was well-known for this.

You can see that in the way that he dismissed about Macedonio's writing, while putting the emphasis on the influence of his 'oral persona'

What do you mean by this? That Borges tried to emphasize the guys speaking ability over his writing to avoid comparisons between them?

I must say I do enjoy "The Museum of Eterna" are there any other works by him I should look to?

Hijacking this thread: can spananons tell me if Borges' poetry is good or not? What's his best poetry book.

>What do you mean by this? That Borges tried to emphasize the guys speaking ability over his writing to avoid comparisons between them?

My English is trash, sorry for that phrasing. Yes, I mean that. He said (and I don't remember where, to be honest) that Macedonio was more of a in person kind of philosopher than a writer. I wouldn't know if he said those things to avoid comparisons, but it surely is weird.

>I must say I do enjoy "The Museum of Eterna" are there any other works by him I should look to?

"Cuadernos de todo y nada" and "Adriana Buenos Aires (última novela mala)" are worth the read for sure, not sure about all of the other things he wrote, I'm not a big conoisseur, tbqh.

It's not good unless you are really into argentinian culture and you get that paying respects to gauchesca while being in touch with ultraism was a really big deal.

Not all his poems are about argentinian culture, that's mostly his early ones. The later ones are about time, mirrors, immortality, classic lit, etc.

I'd say that Borges after 1960 is kinda meh, but ok.

Both their surnames start with B

>lowest of the low
>meanwhile half of mexico lives in poverty

Glad I'm not one of those poor bastards. But yeah, lowest of the low, faggots who can't even speak proper English, much less know about literature. Real Mexicans (like me) live in Mexico, poor or otherwise.

>The Museum of Eterna's Novel by Macedonio Fernández
Anybody have that as a pdf or epub, in English? Been looking forever. Thanks.

Have you checked irc or Libgen? I found an epub but I won't be able to upload until much later (currently on mobile)

2666

Are the late ones good? Can you recommend a book in particular?

Borges was one of the first to take his distance with the "gautchesca literature, he wrote a full text about it (El escritor argentino y la tradicion)

everyone agrees that bolaño is a mix between Borges and Arlt because he flows between encyclopedic exposition and insane personal rants

Borges wrote great poems, quite mysterious/metaphysical (here's a good one about Spinoza, quite representative of his style :

Las traslúcidas manos del judío
labran en la penumbra los cristales
y la tarde que muere es miedo y frío.
(Las tardes a las tardes son iguales.)

Las manos y el espacio de jacinto
que palidece en el confín del Ghetto
casi no existen para el hombre quieto
que está soñando un claro laberinto.

No lo turba la fama, ese reflejo
de sueños en el sueño de otro espejo,
ni el temeroso amor de las doncellas.

Libre de la metáfora y del mito
labra un arduo cristal: el infinito
mapa de Aquel que es todas Sus estrellas.

Claro que se distanció de la gauchesca, mi punto no era ese. El mayor logro de Borges fue crear su propio canon desde el cual fue leído (hace falta tan sólo ver a la importancia que le otorga a un género hasta entonces menor, la novela policial).
Dentro de su canon se encuentran autores que hasta entonces eran tomados como meros escritores panfletarios anti-Rosas; y no, no pienso en Martín Fiero, que por su difusión ya era un libro importante, sino en Ascasubi y sus "gacetas", un autor poco difundido por donde se lo mire.
Así, el lugar que ocupa Borges no es el de un mero reproductor de la tradición, sino el de enlace entre el localismo y el universalismo, entre la tradición y la vanguardia. No hay nada más cómico que la existencia de un personaje como Funes en un lugar como Fray Bentos, cualquier persona que conozca el texto y el lugar se da cuenta de lo oximorónico de la situación.
Su rol como crítico fue esencial para el posterior desarrollo de la literatura porque pudo reconciliar lo que antes se veía como antagónico. Esto no significa que su posición no cambiara ni que se casase con la tradición, pero negar que fue el primer crítico serio en elevar la gauchesca a la altura de las obras más importantes de la literatura universal sería una falta de reconocimiento a gran parte de su mérito como escritor.

Y nunca diría que su poesía estrictamente modernista es mala, pero no está a la altura de sus ensayos ni a la altura de otros poetas anteriores (Rubén Darío, Leopoldo Lugones, Julio Herrera y Reissig, entre otros).

Then you've never been to a major Mexican city that isn't near the US border.

this thread turned out quite well.

Bumping so I remember

Borges, Bolano, Aire and some Llosa Vargas are the only latin americans worth reading.

Clearly you haven't read anything... Rulfo, Puig, Saer, Di Benedetto, Onetti, just to name a few.

>ufile.io/h5jp7
Hope the site is not too much cancer

Rulfo is some top stuff.