Thoughts on this or other pessimistic/nihilist/existential nihilist works?

Do you seriously believe that all your actions are dicataed by some value system? I go on living first and foremost out of instinct. You're seeing too much into it and you're overly rationalizing it.

Above everything else, suicide takes effort and in most cases it is painful. If I had a magic button that would kill me instantly without any pain or effort on my part, I would probably have pushed it at some point in my life. And I would have done so if and only if I found myself in some life circumstance that was tough and demanding (being extremely poor or extremely sick or something along those lines). But since I don't have a magic suicide button I go on living because even when I have a bad day living is still easier than dying: it takes less pain and less effort.

I think in a subconscious way we are all latently driven by our value systems; that everything you do (mostly the life path you choose) stems from core values. This is debatable, but it makes the most sense to me.

Your view definitely makes sense from the perspective of a non-depressed person. I think it's just that most people who 'truly believe' in nihilism can't handle it and become depressed, or vice versa.

Pain/effort of suicide is a reasonable point though

I don't give a damn

How do live knowing that you've been arbitrarily persuaded into believing nihilism is true and that apathy is a way of life, but you can't even go about ending it because that would be too much work? You're truly pathetic.

meant for >tfw I'm truly pathetic

think you quoted the wrong person. I'm anti-nihilism, especially if it leads to amorality/immorality or spreads itself. I personally can't see how a life of 'real' apathy could be lived.

Camus' writings in the myth of sisyphus and similar works really solidified the ideas I kind of already had about nihilism. I think he has an optimistic/empowering outlook on it.

>I think it's just that most people who 'truly believe' in nihilism can't handle it and become depressed, or vice versa.

In my opinion, people who are truly persuaded of nihilism don't get depressed as easily as one might think. People who get "depressed" usually hold the deep-seated belief that life could be better (whether they admit it or not). What causes their depression is often the contrast between their actual circumstances and the imagined, idealized circumstances that they desire (e.g.: if one doesn't have a girlfriend, one might get depressed thinking that life would be so much better with a gf. Or if one is poor, one thinks he would be much happier if only he could get more money).

On the other hand, a truly nihilist person, holds the belief that life is intrinsically undesirable and nothing can make it better or truly worthwhile. The differences in our circumstances are almost negligible compared to the essential and universal meaninglessness of life. On top of that, every pleasure only satisfies temporarily: a homeless guy might become much happier if he gets an appartment, but soon enough he will take that for granted and he will start feeling depressed because now he wnats to live in a big house. If he ever got a big house, he would soon start desiring a villa or a castle, and so on. That's why even rich people sometimes kill themselves: it's never enough. People who believes that life can be "better" will never be satisfied by anything because things could be even "better", in their opinion.

Isn't that basically absurdism?

I'm under the impression that absurdists still strive for some kind of man-made meaning, whereas genuine nihilism doesn't buy into that. Nihilism just accepts that there is no meaning whatsoever and we can't better our lives (at least insofar as the essential aspects are concerend). An absurdist strives for something, a nihilist is more passive and indifferent.

an absurdist creates their own meaning. Absurdism is essentially existentialist nihilism.

Even if your meaning is sensual fulfillment/pleasure, you are still creating a value system by saying "this is better than this," thus deviating from "true" nihilism.

If that's how you want to put it.

I think your conception of a value system is far too broad. According to that view, one could claim that even animals (and perhaps bacteria) have value systems.

Perhaps my view could be summed up saying that being a nihilist is akin to being an epicurean who pursues negative pleasure (i.e. minimization of suffering) and has a skeptical outlook on almost everything else other than this basic moral principle of negative pleasure (which, I suspect, is ingrained in our most basic instincts).

fair point. I really can't argue with it.

I've gone through nihilistic phases and emerged with a secular-humanist perspective that has honestly reinvigorated me. This is why I say core values subconsciously drive us-- it's easier to get out of bed in the morning if you think you can contribute to a greater 'something.' Even if that idea is latent, it still pervades your entire life. At least it seems to have for me

>an absurdist creates their own meaning.
they don't. They accept that there is no meaning and life is absurd but they 'rebel' against this.

>it's easier to get out of bed in the morning if you think you can contribute to a greater 'something.'

But I can't bring myself to believe in any "greater something". We always live in the shadow of Death: whatever we do, we're still going to die and that's it (I don't believe in the afterlife and even if it did exist it would impossible to prove since it apperas to be beyond any possible experience). So what's the point? To contribute to the greater glory of the human species, regardless of the survival of your mortal soul? In all likelihood, mankind is going to die out at some point in time (heat death of the universe as the latest possible date, nuclear holocaust as a more probable and less far-off possibility). Therefore if one tries to cope with mortality through some kind of vicarious immortality via the survival of the species one is just deluding oneself.

More worringly, even if mankind were immortal as a species, I would still have trouble finding a "greater something". We live in a world of increasingly "technical" solutions. The advancement of scientific knowledge is stripping us of any genuine humanism we might have left. If in the past men sought solutions to their troubles by going to church, later they started visiting the psychoanalyst, and eventually they started gulping down pills without even having to talk to anyone.

Any pursuit that traditionally purported to strive for a greater something has been trivialized by a technical solution, it has been reduced to algebra.

Too bad Cioran can't write for shit.

I guess I have a sort of vague transcendental view of humanity's potential, even if I won't be around to see the supposed 'apex' of it.

I have faith in the idea that technological advancements could continue in such a way that we could avert the heat death of the universe with something interdimensional (which is an apparent potential method), but I'm not too concerned with this more than some brief wikipedia-ing because it literally does not matter to my life time.

I don't think we should rationalize the will to live. First and foremost it's our instinct, as animals, that pushes us to keep on living.

Also potentially contributing something great to a field of art/study is a motivator beyond nihilism (which is typically lumped into the idea of 'achieving immortality')

One doesn't "believe" in nihilism.

Existentialism is the trashiest philosophy there is.

As long as it's a branch of existentialism that includes a sort of humanist morality why is it anything other than good?

It's conscious self delusion.

It's literally the base-line belief for an autonomous person. It's extremely sensible.

Is free will a delusion?

What other 'non-delusional' option is there?

Was Cioran attempting to persuade others that pessimism is meant to be lyrical?

free will is the height of delusion

Stupid question because you will die anyway and there's no gaurantee you won't just be reborn in another/the same reality, so why bother

It doesn't matter if you do it or don't its as preferential as which dishwashing liquid you buy

t. determinist