In your own words, what does he mean by initiation?

what is an example of an initiatic process? why is it necessary for the adoption of a traditional life, and why does it not serve the same function when de-coupled from tradition?

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There is no 'in our own words'. Initiation is just that. A rite of passage. It's supposedly an unbroken chain of transmission since the first appearance of said 'traditional' knowledge, remained untouched, only shared. We can't know what it is since we're not initiated. It's the entire point of Guénon and tradition.

no, you are talking about the contents of initiation, not the process.

He explains all this stuff exhaustively in his books, just read them instead of asking people from Veeky Forums to explain it.

user finds secluded esoteric community.
user wants to join.
user is not ready and is told to GTFO by a wizened old master figure.
user doesn't give up.
user's body mind and spirit begin to be tested through a series of challenges and rituals the contents of which isn't public, because the whole point of a secluded esoteric community holding secret knowledge is that it is secluded and esoteric that holds knowledge that is secret.
user has one final ceremony to attend.
user is no longer the faggot he was that would ask stupid questions.
user knows and understands.
"user" as we knew him dies.
user is reborn as a member of the community.

knew some retard would say thatˆ have read several of his books and to me his ideas on initiation seem contradictory. if you can't formulate an answer yourself, you won't be of much help

why is this process only effective wrt orthodox institutions

Would you be more willing to give your money to scientologists, or millennia old charity organizations? Why do you even bother making these threads?

i want to understand what he's saying. why are people familiar with guenon so defensive? im not trying to pick his shit apart and i dont care if you think im retarded for not getting it after reading his stuff—i just want to get it

Right. Initiation is a rebirth. Usually in two stages. The first is for the exoteric knowledge, the second for the esoteric.

you basically have to dialogue with the masters; go to a mosque. what can we say to you.

why will initiation into different traditions like sufism or hinduism have equivalent results?

guenon's writings don't amount to "go speak with an imam." if that's what he ultimately has to say, so be it, but i want to understand what he intended to convey with his books—if he didn't intend to convey anything, he wouldn't have written them

Guénon underwent initiation from both. The secret knowledge that Guénon received - which, as we said before, is secret - led him to believe this is the case.

Guénon entered many different esoteric communities and understood the old guys and only the old guys were doing it right, not so with the new kids on the block. Again, if you don't want to give your money to scientologists, would you perhaps give them your soul? How is the comprehension of any of this in any way, shape, or form complicated?

I won’t claim to know I have limited knowledge and am not initiated.
I also don’t know much about Sufism and Hinduism. I mostly know about the Eluesian type schools. In the first stage you were instructed and taught , and after you had internalized the knowledge you were initiated into the higher stage which was more of an experience rather than a lesson in dogma.

For Guénon, initiation is the transmission of spiritual influences to a qualified initiate by means of filiation with a traditional organisation that is itself orthodox and regular; these spiritual influences give the initiate spiritual illumination sufficient to develop, in conjunction with the active efforts of the initiate’s interior work, the possibilities that precisely constitute their qualification. The initiatic transmission must
be oral, thereby including the two cosmogonic elements: sound and breath. The initiatic process presents itself under three hierarchical conditions: potential, virtual, and actual. There is one unique initiation which is present and developed under diverse forms and with multiple modalities. What this means is that the transition from virtual to actual involves indefinite changes or “initiations.” At the same time these indefinite changes can only be ritually conferred according to a sort of general classification of the stages to be traversed. The final goal of the initiatic work is that the initiate transcend individuality in achieving
Deliverance, which is the state of Supreme Identity with the Reality.

>How is the comprehension of any of this in any way, shape, or form complicated?
maybe it's not and am retarded, who gives a fuck?

thanks. i will need to mull this over, but think it makes sense.

>who gives a fuck?
I give a fuck because you frustrate people's efforts to make you question your arrogant behavior, it is important that you stop being retarded, and it should be a concern of yours also.

thanks for your help—i can tell it's in good faith

And if this retarded user were to figure out things by himself, and then die and be reborn as non-retarded, he'd be inititated.
Little did he know the thread was a parody of initiation all along.

Played like a damn fiddle

traditional practices are not invented or created, but they are accretions of knowledge that develop over time like crystals.

You cannot invent a new tradition the way you cannot really invent a new language (I mean you can, but it's going to be fucking gay)

Imagine that you have been blind for your entire life, and you suddenly gain the ability to see for 5 minutes, before going blind again for the rest of your life.

Even though you are blind, you now still have an experience of the world that is fundamentally different from those who have been blind forever. That is initiation: A transformative experience that ontologically alters the initiate.