What went so wrong?

Soviet invasion caused a power vacuum which left control in the hands of various warlords who were former Mujahideen. Eventually a group known as the Taliban (meaning "Students") appeared. They were Afghani students whose parents had fled to Pakistan during the invasion and were taught by Pakistan's radical Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam. They arrived with funds, weaponry and young youth who were able to provide key services to the Afghani people, thus garnering support.

They brought, Sharia courts, food, supplies and importantly at that time, safety. This is a similar way to al-Qaeda's efforts in Pakistan's Tribal Area.

So basically state fragmentation under the warlords allowed these students to take parts of Afghanistan step by step with popular support from religious fanatics and external Islamic groups.

>USA, can we get development aid?
>No.
>USSR, can we get development aid?
And you know what followed.

THE ETERNAL WESTERNER.

Pakistan tbqh.
>Soviets charge in for communism
>Pakistan: USA pls halp
>USA: Give this cash to the reliable mujahideen
>Pakistan: Ok
>creates Taliban and al-Qaeda
>9/11.gif
>USA: Shut this fucker down
>Pakistan: Ok
>War in Northwest Pakistan intensifies
>USA kills Bin Laden in Pakistan
>Pakistan: America respect national rights
Worst ally confirmed

>And you know what followed.
>REEEE RUSSIANS LET'S FUND ISLAMIC FANATICS TO FIGHT THEM
>IT WON'T BACKFIRE, TRUST ME

t. Nigel Ibn Paki British from mother side

>medieval tribal shithole
>no infrastructure
>islamism
>drug trade and corruption

Democracy can't work there. It literally can't. The current regime is hanging on a string held up only by the American troops, once they bail, it's Somalia 2.0 or Taliban rule again.

russia invades , everything turned to shit.
The other post are rubbish here.

See:
Americans had the opportunity and the means to avoid it all.

It's one of those places that needs a conquering muslim king who bashes peoples heads in line more than a democratically elected leader.

Kinda like how Saudi Arabia was founded.

>It's one of those places that needs a conquering muslim king who bashes peoples heads in line more than a democratically elected leader.
Didn't that happen several times, and as late as in the mid 1800s?

It should have never been born. The Western Persian speaking half should have gone to Iran, and the British should have absorbed the Pashtun East into the Raj.

Present day Pakistan really doesn't deserve any new territory though, I'd rather see parts of it go to Afghanistan instead.

Sikhs didn't conquer it all

Yes, and each time the region prospered.

Americans.

Whoops :')

They edited it in re-release to say something like "The brave people of Afghanistan" or something.

Yep, "gallant"

I don't understand why people are debating about 9/11 being an inside job, in any case the US government is directly responsible for it

but pakistan is the foremost victim of islamic terrorism that originates from pakistan

Letting the Soviets lose

Tbh, Afghanistan was a shithole before both invasions.

Hard to turn shit into shit.

Afghanistan was better in 2000 than it is today.

Afghanistan was fine before the Soviet invasions. Not great, but on the same level as the other -Stans, which is to say.. Okay.
Blatantly false. The Americans basically dropped bombs of money there, the Taliban was.. not defeated but kicked out of the governmet at least. Pic related.

Tribalism, multiple ethnic groups and languages, Islam, opium etc.

>Implying anything was right to begin with

Greco-Bactrian and Indo-Greek kingdoms failed to thoroughly hellenize the region.

No kingdom kingdom or empire held the region long enough to break the tribalism.

islam

This.

/thread

Heroin addicts in the U.S. would say nothing is wrong. Heroin is still cheaper than Cocaine throughout much (if not most) of the country and has been for a decade. Opium production is one of the things working quite well in Afghanistan.

>implying you can turn mountainous tribesmen into citizens

Whats with that little strip of land that connects China to Afghanistan? Was that intentional so they can trade with the Chinks?

Wakhan Corridor. Yes that is intentional so that Afghanistan isnt cucked off trade with China.

China closed it anyway.

Why are you so stupid you dont understand its that way because of the wars not that the wars and shithole is because of the people

Afghanistan is a country that has been stomped on every time it gets going

It never got going, ever. If ypu refer to the early 70s, it was just a handful of midde and upper class city dwellers who cosplayed as westerners while the average man kept living a tribal life.

Watch Bitter Lake.

Yeah.
Genocide of kalash and other hindu minorities was sad tho and could at least have warranted the need for safezones in afghanistan.

Why didn't it last though? Are brits to blame?

the only time that hole ever got going was when it was ruled by assorted turk dynasties

>Are brits to blame?
Of course, white people are the sole cause of everything wrong in this world. If it weren't for white people, the peaceful and prosperous people of afghanistan would already be colonizing Mars.

>SUCH A SHITHOLE
>MUH SAVAGE TRIBES

Communism fucked it up like always.

See This is precisely what I meant. A bunch of people in Kabul acting like westerners while 99% of the country still fucked goats.

*Islam and tribalism

The brits were an exceptional villain in world history, though, and they fucked with Afghanistan throughout the whole 19th century.

the opposite is true, the old adage of 'if you find yourselves under the yoke of an empire you had better hope that it is a british or American one' rings true

This.
If you've ever traveled to a third world country you will see what you expect. Until you get to the core of some cities and you see the tiny minority of middle class citizens exist and that they're very similar to people elsewhere in developed countries.

Pic related. It's Afghanistan today.

Here's the picture.

Fuck off you pig fucking shitskin

Actually people on your pic were supportive to communist government.

Opium farmers who used literal slave labour and islamic fanatics weren't.

Soviet invasion.

Kingdom of Afghanistan was supposedly a nice place to visit. Europeans with cash went there on vacation in the 50s and 60s.

>What went so wrong?

Islam.

/thread

/board

/site

...

>it was just a handful of midde and upper class city dwellers who cosplayed as westerners while the average man kept living a tribal life.

Except that's how 3rd wold shit holes get their act together and eventually join the rest of the modern world.

Kabul wasn't built in a day, you know.

london just elected a muslim mayor

I had no idea his entire platform was "I am a Muslim", surely that's why he was voted in.

Why are they so diverse in looks and culture?

Afghanistan is a big fucking country with a lot of mountains and climate zones.

Central Asian nomads get around.

The Eurasian steppe is one big-ass superhighway from Korea to Hungary, with genes travelling every which way.

because afghanistan is a non-nation, pic related

I deserved this more than you. An hero.

SEPTEMS OF TRUTH
AFGHIS BTFO

...

chekd

The digits have spoken.

das it senpai

9/111111 never for/get/

>muh evil soviets!!!11
Stop pls

septs is truth

Multiculturalism is an awful meme. You might be able to convince 1 or 2 plebs to share the same outlook as the cosmopolitan middle classes in your gated community, but it doesn't work like that with millions of people.

But separation of internally similar groups breeds resentment and unrest if the separation results in better terms for one group over the other. Especially when you consider intra-ethnic cooperation and similar concepts

People are shitty and multiculturalism is something we can't have a globalized world with out. And if you really didn't want to be connected with the rest of the world, you wouldn't be posting here.

>Afghanistan hasn't been disbanded after fate itself has spoken

Shame on you you Pashtung bastards

Hey I want to be connected but I also want to preserve my heritage and identity. Maybe you're a cosmopolitan middle class kid who has no identity except of the globalist one, so you can't understand that.

Also, there is a way to have a globalized world without multiculturalism. It's called confederalism. Look at Switzerland for example of this on a smaller scale.

>tfw Afghan

DELET YOU BASTARD

That's cool, as an American I really have no reason to push any sort of regional or local identity. Our interaction with multiculturalism is nuanced in a bit of a different way than say, Eurasia's, which I'm guessing is where you're from.

Will check out confederalism though.

post face so I can add it to my collection of 4.5k photos of Afghans

>as an American I really have no reason to push any sort of regional or local identity
Utah and Texas have one due to historical reasons, and Appalachia and New England are two regions that certainly have their own specific identity too, at least outside big cities — both had very specific immigration patterns.

But yes it's a bit different, first because it's a big country where it's easy to move, and second because a lot of Americans are relatively recent immigrants that don't have a regional identity yet.

And move I did. My family moved while they were raising my sister and I until we actually settled in Austin, TX.So if anything, an identity that can be taken would be that of a Cosmopolitan Austinite, as stupid as it sounds. And there are some things to take pride in.

Like how the city recently challenged big startups by standing up to UBER in a legal battle. If we hadn't, that would mean that UBER would be much freer to regulate(read:deregulate) the safety precautions they'd have to take.

Appalachia is definitely a hell of an interesting case study on American regional identity. They're regularly shit on by almost every facet of American culture other than their own, anyways.

>3rd wold shit holes get their act together and eventually join the rest of the modern world.

I fail to see the path dependancy. Maybe you westerners with a saviour complex start to treat the rest of the world like adults and hold them somewhat accountable for the situations in their countries.
That's what we do with western countries even if their crimes are long past and not commited by the current generation. The discrepancy in accountability is quite astonishing.

I'm not a pure Afghan la, I'm only part Afghan so I'd ruin your collection

You don't think that western decision-making had any sort of negative influence on these countries?

Whether it did or not is no excuse to infinetely fuck up. This is neither a reasonable nor a helpful assumption.
Everything influenced something some time in history including these evil western nations, that doesn't mean that there was no choice but to end up where you are now as a society.

Does Greek language or culture or identity persist anywhere in Afghanistan aside from pederasty?

I'm not saying that anyone is 100% to blame, or not. And neither are you it seems. I just mistook you for somebody rather polarized because of your ebin meme to the left of the post.

You're saying that if we were to hold certain countries responsible for their actions, that they are more likely to develop and prosper than if they were considered guiltless. Is this correct?

If you speak Afghanistanian that sould do.

No, not really. Even pederasty was not introduced by the Greeks but by the Turks up north, pederasty was seen as normal among the Central Asian elite (e.g. Babur).

The second biggest city in Afghanistan was probably founded by Alexander - Kandahar (you can hear it from the name).

There are some shared words I noticed but those most probably are IE cognates rather than loanwords from Greek.

Witnessed.

Independent, not separated.

Russians don't hate Finns or Estonians for being wealthier than them. Bolivia doesn't hate Chile. Turkmenistanis don't have a problem with Kazakhstanis.

Clear dividing lines to limit arguments. Don't bring bacon into Pashtunistan.

>if you really didn't want to be connected with the rest of the world, you wouldn't be posting here
I eat chop suey because it stands on its merits, not because I believe in memes.

>Bolivia doesn't hate Chile
uhhh...

>You're saying that if we were to hold certain countries responsible for their actions, that they are more likely to develop and prosper than if they were considered guiltless. Is this correct?

Yes, correct.
The muslim world -or vice versa the west- bought so much into we dindu nuffin meme, that they are completely unable for any self criticism and to change structures. I just object to this monocausal explanation that US involvement -albeit possibly harmful- is the sole reason for the state of the region.
If it was like this we wouldn't have a modern Japan, Germany, South Korea or relatively modern China.

The CIA armed, trained, and supported Pakistani Mujahiden in this country both before and after Soviet intervention.

theguardian.com/world/2011/sep/27/10-myths-about-afghanistan

The intervention was not the one thing that threw off Afghanistan's somewhat promising progress. That is a childish notion. The same legitimate government that asked the USSR for help was the same one overseeing this steady progress in peace time- the president of Afghanistan was hanged along with his brother SEVEN years after the communists left, four years after they dissolved.

This same secular government oversaw the Afghan high point of history for women's rights. Heroin production and addiction and boy-fucking were at their lowest. Tens of thousands received education in the USSR and schools and railroads were laid in the country itself.

If you study this countrys early role in the cold war before major civil unrest, it is obvious that western-supported factions weren't exactly innocent angels or lost their influence for no fault of their own. Compare this proxy state with Nixon and India... delivering a neutral state to the eastern bloc entirely on its own.

Hopefully the US can do some good for it now. But how much are you really getting for your dollar? for the soldiers coming back in coffins? Is it worth it?