In the event that Hiroshima and Nagasaki aren't bombed and the allies proceed with operation downfall, was a Soviet invasion of Hokkaido or somewhere similar planned?
Were the Soviets even capable of carrying out an amphibious invasion at that point?
I find the ramifications of a divided Japan like Germany quite interesting, but would it have been even historically possible?
>soviet invasion of hokkaido.
are you that same cunt that made this awful alt-history map?
No I just assumed that if they had invaded anywhere it would've been Hokkaido, I haven't made any maps.
They weren't capable of doing it(lack of training, experience and assault vessels) but whether Army, Navy, Administration or the Emperor knew about it is another matter.
Somebody knew - as they knew what happened in Kuril Islands but was it army or was it navy?
The capitulation of Japan was definitely speeded up by Soviets invading Manchuria but it was all because they hoped for mediation between them and allies even after the bombs have fallen.
That and because it crushed the semi-independent rule of the Kwangtung army.
Invading Honshu through Korea should be easier.
Even with the US occupying the south of the peninsula?
Considering how the Americans were the ones asking for the Soviet intervention in Japan, if they both agreed, obviously yes, they would have the American aid to do so.
So wait.. you're saying the Soviets would have taken some of Japan if America didn't A-bomb those two cities?
So you're saying the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki saved Japan desu?
Nah, it caused anime to spread.
Soviets would just kill it before it would start, saving white race as a result.
As a white man, I'm glad Russia always has my back.
...
>Was a Soviet invasion of Japan planned/possible?
Yes, the US were supplying the Soviet Union with landing craft.
>Were the Soviets even capable of carrying out an amphibious invasion at that point?
Not in the manner of the US's capacity for hey-diddle-diddle straight-up-the-middle landings against the Japanese state's remaining apparatus. But PDR Hokkaido would have been achievable.
I don't think so, the US gave them a dozen and a half landers and that's it, just to let the Reds invade a small island with a divison held by a few dozen Japs.
The invasion was a fiasco, with them losing 1/3rd of the landers to a single mortar position. They took the island at hilariously disproportionate losses.
The Reds would have needed several hundred landing craft on loan from the US to invade Hokkaido, and it's quite unlikely the US would have done so. The US was quite interested in keeping the Reds out of Japan proper after all.
Yes the Soviets could have invaded Japan, yes they where planning to, they had already opened war with Japan. Bombs where dropped for 3 reasons.
>Show the Soviet Union the power America had
>End the war quickly and prevent the SU from gaining any control over any part of Japan like they have eastern Europe
>Give the higher ups a chance to see the bombs in action a live test as sorts
If you are a fool then you would be lead to believe they where dropped to prevent the precious loss of life despite military campaigns against the Japanese including island invasions would providing no proof that this would be the case. Alas Japan had already extended terms of surrender to the allies before the bombs where dropped however America refused one condition which is one America would later after dropping the bombs allow.
Reminder the USSR feared even the weakened Japanese naval power that it wasn't until after Kure was bombed into oblivion and the remnants of the IJN grounded permanently did they start their naval operations in the Japanese sea.
Landing crafts aren't that hard to build, if the USA didn't supply them, the factories at Magnitogorsk would have. It's very likely that had the US not dropped the nukes, they would still have been building up to an invasion by the time teh first Red boots hit the main island.
>Alas Japan had already extended terms of surrender to the allies before the bombs where dropped however America refused one condition which is one America would later after dropping the bombs allow.
It was kind of a big deal tho, the Divinity of the Emperor was a real relic of the ancient world that had done Japan no favors.
>The US was quite interested in keeping the Reds out of Japan proper after all.
Dubious.
>the factories at Magnitogorsk would have.
No, they wouldn't have. While Soviet reverse engineering was acceptably good, they don't have the time.
My point was more that it was something or someone America did not really care so much about, they clearly already knew he had no power. The fact thereafter that they agreed to leave as be proves he was of little importance of them yet he was supposedly the one reason they rejected the pre bombing surrender terms, however it is probably likely that American higher ups where already committed to dropping the bombs and no terms would have stopped them, at least that is how it appears to me.
After the Kurils invasion they went "yep, we're not gonna do that again". And those fuckers were the winners.
Soviet inexperience with amphibous invasions would have hampered war plans. The Battle of Shumshu proved that.
Remember, though, that to get Hokkaido all they need to have is one port when the Japanese state is forced to surrender. The rest would be occupation rush.
The US demanded unconditional surrender, the Japanese did not offer terms that were unconditional, nor did they offer surrender except the Emperor stays in power.
They said, we'll surrender and keep Manchuria and Korea and you go away now bing bong. The Japs at no point offered anything in between. It was always they keep the Emperor and its overseas holdings or complete unconditional surrender.
The US kept the Emperor in power because after a brief talk with him they realized he had no real power, but was still a monumentally important figurehead that could guarantee a stable Japan during the occupation. Removing him from power would undoubtedly cause unrest, revolts, violence, and a slow and grueling transition of the Japanese mindset. Personally, I find that the Emperor was a very decent man who cared greatly about his people. I think the US saw that too, and was one of the biggest reasons Japan got off as light as they did. Because the Emperor could be trusted to lead his people to peace. The terms were brutal even still, but they could have been much much harsher for sure.
How much harsher than letting GIs and Australians rape the shit out of their children for 10+ years can you get?
Britian, China, and Russia would not be allowed to administrate parts of Japan following the conquest by the US.
That proposed post-war is full of shit. The USN would never allow the Soviets near Japan after and before the final kill
USN was so influential in US policy that when they suggested starving Japan to death Army laughed them out of the room.
>ROC survives on Taiwan, Kinmen, and Shikoku.
kek
Chemical castration of the entire Japanese race.
This was discussed by more than just a couple people at a coffee break.
Just when I thought WWII couldn't get worse, the Americans found a way.
To be fair, the British were the first to propose it for the Germans and the idea naturally carried over to the Japanese.
Yeah, when Stalin is the guy at the table having to argue for the continuity of the German State, Language and physical people, something funny is going on with the policy twonks.
Well I mean you can't repress dead people. What good is a bunch of German slaves if they're all gonna die in 70 years and you can't even make their women cry about how they're gonna give birth to a half slav bastard when you rape them?
Stalin had respect for German people, just not ALL Germans
he wanted to create a Germany as he liked it
When is Rance: 1931-1949 coming out?
Why not Britain and China? China had suffered grievous losses in a war over a decade long and Britain had been at war with them before the US had been and would've likely participated in the invasion along with commonwealth forces.