Was the reformation, in one way or another, inevitable?
Was the reformation, in one way or another, inevitable?
Jackson Rogers
Owen Carter
There's always a schism from orthodox churches once in a while. See the Gnostics, Cathars, Unification Church etc.
Colton Green
>social and class inevitability is a thing
Marx please fuck off and never return.
Jaxon Wood
I don't remember any of those spreading like wild fire and gobbling up half continents.
The Reformation was rather different to what that came before it.
Jose Jones
You don't have to be a Marxist to think that it's extremely likely that people tells a Church that elects the Borgias as their leader to fuck off.
Evan Mitchell
People had nothing to do with it, German princes did. They simply sheltered Luther and his breakaway church because they wanted to break away from Vatican's shit themselves.
If anything the Hussite revolt was way more popular among common folk but it ultimately failed because it didn't have the backing of high ranking aristocrats.
Isaac Brown
Princes are people too, famiglia.
Joseph Bennett
Yeah, but the social context was quite different. Also, Cathars got their shit kicked since they didn't embrace violence
Chase Green
We do have a bunch of places where the Reformation did see major support among the population, like in the Netherlands, parts of France and that city in Italy where they rebelled and proclaimed a Republic.
I suppose the Peasant's war should count, as the peasant did want to move away from the pope but just happened to also be against the protestant nobles too.
Ethan Moore
Kind of, an event like that (a puritanical reaction that seeks to destroy everything of value in this world) happens in every civilisation, with varying degrees of success. In the East it was Islam, and it was incredibly successful.
In the West it was still far more successful than it should have been. Previous heresies had been crushed by the alliance of Franks and Church, the two pillars of Western civilisation. But then the disasters of the late Middle Ages destroyed France, and with that broke the foundation of the Church, thus allowing for Protestantism to grow out of control.
James Russell
Yeah.
People were bound to get tired of the Church's shit.
Nicholas Hughes
Not really. According to most historians, the main cause of the reformation were the abuses by Catholic bishops and others. Had the Catholic church cleaned up its act before Luther, it's very possible that he wouldn't have been able to gain enough traction to cause anything other than a minor schism that would've faded away in time.
Unfortunately, power went to a lot of peoples' heads and they didn't realize how bad things were going to get, so they pretty much blew off the grievances Luther and similar priests had.
Aaron Lopez
he was not the first
he was the most successful
Dominic Rivera
There were reformations all over the place and personal alterations people made to worshipping christ to fit their needs. Luther's was just the one that hit the hardest.
Hunter Gutierrez
Catholicism>Protestantism
Ryan Thompson
with the benefit of hindsight the RC Church could probably have cleaned up their act before it all got out of hand
but noone ever has the benefit of hindsight so meh
Jayden Mitchell
The Vatican is the most evil institution on the face of the earth. It cannot, and never will, "clean itself up".
In numbers of innocent Christians and Jews murdered, yes.
Michael Walker
>he's a protestant
see you in Hell
Benjamin Scott
Can't we have just one religious thread without Protestants and Catholics starting to claw at each other's throats?
Owen Harris
You can look for me there, but you won't find me.
Brody Reed
>What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
>But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.
James 2:14-26
See also:
protestanterrors.com
scripturecatholic.com
scripturecatholic.com
youtube.com
youtube.com
youtube.com
Oliver Anderson
>"If your papist annoys you with that word (i.e. alone), tell him straightaway: Doctor Martin Luther will have it so: Papists and asses are one and the same thing. Whoever will not have my translation, let him give it the go-by: the devil's thanks to him who censures it without my will and knowledge. LUTHER WILL HAVE IT SO, AND HE IS A DOCTOR ABOVE ALL THE DOCTORS IN POPEDOM."
Amicable Discussions, I, 127, ‘The Facts About Luther’, O’Hare, Tan Books (1987), p201
Adrian Thompson
That's a lot of info you got there my Catholic friend.
The question, though, was not on the correctness of this or that sect but on whenever the event itself was inevitably, something that may relay on a lot of other factors than simple faith correctness.
Lincoln White
>scripturecatholic.com
>scripturecatholic.com
proddies on suicide watch
Luis Ward
>I know nothing about history: the post!
Brayden Allen
Imagine being so autistic that you feel the need to defend your specific religious denomination on an anonymous image board
William Ramirez
>said the atheist
Jose Moore
Why do you people seem to automatically assume that everyone who disagrees with you is an atheist? Is it the autism I mentioned earlier, or is it just a cultural thing?
Jayden Brown
Because people are having a religious discussion and you want to sit on the fucking fence and shit on both sides. What country you from?
Jayden Myers
But shitting on everyone is fun, desu.
I'm from The United States of Burgerstan, by the way.
Noah Hill
>But shitting on everyone is fun, desu.
Then don't get your panties in a twist when people bitch back at you, famalamb.
Robert Gonzalez
Well at that time Luther luthre'd a lot of states wanted the pope's dick out of their ass.
What surprised me was the scale of the conflict's that followed.
James Clark
No, because this is fucking important.
You atheists won't properly understand this, but the disputes between Protestants and Catholics are matters of eternity. Incorrect belief endangers a soul in the afterlife. The Church, at least, is not quite as harsh as it once was. Being a Protestant PROBABLY won't send you to Hell. You can PROBABLY still get into Heaven if you're a Protestant.
Key word 'probably.' Maybe Vatican II is just the Church being in error because of worldly pressures. Maybe the Council of Trent and Vatican I are more correct, and God will indeed be pissed at someone for believing Protestant falsehoods. Correct belief, after all, is the whole name of the game in Christianity.
And Protestants think the same things about Catholics as Catholics think about Protestants. This is a matter of where the soul spends its eternity after death. It's vitally important.
Henry Cox
...
Bentley Wood
It's like the Crips and the Bloods, you gotta have a fight.
>Being a Protestant PROBABLY won't send you to Hell. You can PROBABLY still get into Heaven if you're a Protestant.
Proofs? I'm not sharing a Heaven with "protestants"
James Roberts
Just curious, can Orthodox go to heaven?
Cooper Wright
>Incorrect belief endangers a soul in the afterlife.
This is what religitards actually believe..
James Flores
I mean, you ain't going with the Catholics.
Shoo shoo kike, we're having a discussion.
Ayden Davis
>hehe you see, I'm not an atheist, I'm an a g n o s t i c, which makes me superior to those pretentious atheist fucks xD
Nah, you're an atheist.
Noah Powell
Yes, very few proddies though.
Brody Fisher
Was the Reformation a mistake?
Emphatically not!
Rather than debate whether the Reformation should have happened, praise God it did happen as it allowed us to read the Bible and discover these truths for ourselves instead of exchanging one kind of law for another.
"For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith"
Romans 3v23 - 25
Jose Allen
>shitpost with no relevance to OP's question
religion threads, every fucking time
James Kelly
It is the biggest mistake. Explain this