I'm a bit confused about the Trinity

What is an ousia?

It's nonsense dude. There is no rational explanation for it.

I don't believe that, most of the great philosophers of history have been Christian. They have found some way to explain it.

F =/= S =/= H

G = F+S+H, G = F, G = H, G = S

pls

Think of this, if you go back in time and talk to yourself, it doesn't multiply your metaphysical essence, which is one, but still you have two existences. God is one being with three existences.

What does this mean?

Thank you Constantine, I love your replies so much and I wish there was an Orthodox church near me.

I'm still struggling though. Sorry.

Are you saying God time travelled?

1 =/= 2 =/= 3

X = 6

X=1, X=2, X=3

Sounds legit

don't think of it in terms of numerical value

Thank you. :)

No, all three persons (or "existences" more literally) of the Trinity existed before all ages, all time, beyond all dimensions and materiality, and continue to, unlimited in every sense, transcending all boundaries and boxes. I put it in those terms to give a parallel human example. God the Father *caused* (but did not create, as this is before all ages, so God *eternally* caused the, as in caused them beyond all time and without any beginning) the Son and the Holy Spirit, which are identical with him in every way. Not just "clones" but identical in the same way as if you went back in time and talked to yourself.

I don't think you understand how logic works and what it is, unless you're just rusing

It is a mistery
The essence of it being a mistery, you cannot explain it by logic
The greatest miracle is the trinity
Something like that, it is not logic, you have to give up and start believing

Are christards really this aggressively retarded or is this just a semi-decent ruse?

>mistery
take a guess

That makes no sense due to the fact that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit have different properties which cannot be accidental due to the nature of God, but never mind that. I would like to pray to you to intercede on my behalf; should I just say the Ave Maria with each instance of "Mary" replaced with "Constantine", or should I come up with something on my own?

>man, woman, child = family but are not each other

>Father, Son, Holy Spirit = God but are not each other

Because it doesn't make sense.

>mfw i learnt that these christological arguments only make sense in their historical contexts and have more to do with the politics of the 3rd-4th centuries than anything jesus said or did

They don't have different properties, they all have identical properties.

If you want me to pray for you, you have to ask me a way I will get the message. I'm not a saint..

It has to do with God being able to love himself. Love is selfless, yet God loved before all ages when there was only himself to love. Yet how could he love himself if love is senseless? Hence the trinity. God's love is like a stool supported by three legs.

It just works.

lmao dat pure ideology tho. i bet you dont even know the difference between an arian and a menophosite. your namesake also only adopted jesus as a war god because he helped him in a battle.

>only adopted jesus as a war god because he helped him in a battle.
So?

An Arian is the opposite of a monophysite, the former believes Christ is but human, the latter that he is but divine (unless by "monophysite" you mean "miaphysite")

>God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit aren't the same

>Satan quads

Nice try, devil.

So you're saying that they're three identical but separate entities? If they aren't separate, how do you differentiate them?

They are distinct, but not separate. How can they be separate if they beyond and space or time?

The nature of the trinity is that it can never be explained. I don't know, I guess it's a test of faith. If you walk in skeptical you're going to leave skeptical. You need to be a christian first before you can swallow the abandon reason pill.

I said they aren't the same, this is true by definition.

HE DENIES THE TRINITY

HE IS THE REAL SATAN

So, are they distinguished by their relationship to each other?

>God is polyamorous

No, that's RCC theology. They are distinguished by being distinct existences, which love each other infinitely.

God is omniamorous.

So they are not separate entities, yet they love each other?

One entity, with three existences, that love each other.

Why three, then? Why not four, seven, 108, 613, or infinite?

It's pretty simple no need to complicate. They are all one and are God.

Thanks for the input Mr fedora

Because they all do everything as one, as a trio of from/of, by/through, in/among. No more, no less.

What I wanna know is how the fuck is this consistent with the strict monotheism of Judaism?

Because logically it makes no sense.

That's why the Jews reject it. I guess from a Christian perspective it's still one god but of course any outsider is going to look upon that with skepticism.

See Genesis 18

I thought you said that they weren't differentiated by their relationship to each other. Just as a passing remark, this sounds like an oversimplified version of the Sephirot.

Interesting.

Then what is the Jewish argument against the Trinity? How do they rationalize Gen.18?

They say that Abraham is alternatively talking to the three, and alternatively talking to God. That the three are not God, it just looks like that.

Christian here. Dont sweat it. When you die God isnt going to quiz you in your views of the trinity and send you to hell if you answer wrong

Your body is made up of a skeletal system, a muscular system, and a nervous system (I know there are others, using these as an example). Each of those things are separate and distinct, but when someone refers to you they are thinking of the greater thing that is constructed of all of them.

Its literally a matter of faith, a divine mystery. Its the equivlent of believing in a square circle

Partialism, Heresy!

>Actually listening to ancient dudes declaring what is and isnt okay to believe

Oh that definitely smells like heresy.

>Your body is made up of a skeletal system, a muscular system, and a nervous system (I know there are others, using these as an example). Each of those things are separate and distinct, but when someone refers to you they are thinking of the greater thing that is constructed of all of them.

This is heresy that the Father Son and Holy Spirit are components that make up God rather than God itself.

A neverous system is literally not the body whilst Jesus is literally God

>the son is God
>the father is God
>the son is not the father
>therefore God is not God
I'm lost as well OP.

There is an actual serious answer assuming you're looking for one and not just baiting, but it will probably be unsatisfying if you arent a christian.
Its one of the parts of Christianity that simply has to be taken on faith. Most of the Bible and its teaching have explanations that humans can understand, but God's nature is not like the nature of humans, its something we fundamentally cannot understand. The only advice i can give you is to not start christianity with the trinity and also like said, its probably not a salvific matter

>The only advice i can give you is to not start christianity with the trinity and also like said, its probably not a salvific matter

You a very wrong here, belief in the trinity is literally a requirement of salvation. If you deny the Trinity you either deny the divinity of Christ or are a polytheist.

Only a complete moron takes the whole bible literally

youtube.com/watch?v=C7IyZYEcyyk

Basically an asspull to justify worshipping three different deities.

Idk if I agree with pic related completely, but there's some interesting stuff in there.

It's okay, so are Christians. Even they have to chalk it up to a mystery.

3 entities occupied by one greater conscious?

So is Jesus really God's "son" or is that just an analogy for humans?

Because by virtue of being co-eternal with the Father, Jesus can't technically be his offspring.

It's really God's son.

DUDE FAITH LMAO

How?

God eternally "begot" (caused) the Son.

No, the only requirement is salvation in Christ; you could technically be a polytheist and go to Heaven.

Causation requires time, which contradicts co-eternity.

>causation requires time
Why?

If I need to explain cause and effect to you, I don't think you should be trying to discuss metaphysics.

We can't know if polytheists can go to heaven, Christ never said. We can know that *spreading* lies which distort the doctrine Christ *did* pass on, will not count in your favor, and that includes spreading lies about the Trinity.

Cause and effect is simply "B is due to A", not "B is temporally subordinate to A"

How can B be caused by A if A and B have both always existed?

Read the bible, I don't got time to sit on my ass and argue about how shit happened.

>Causality (also referred to as 'causation',[1] or 'cause and effect') is the agency or efficacy that connects one process (the cause) with another (the effect), where the first is understood to be partly responsible for the second, and the second is dependent on the first.
>In general, a process has many causes, which are said to be causal factors for it, and all lie in its past. An effect can in turn be a cause of many other effects, which all lie in its future.

> The Bradford Hill criteria, otherwise known as Hill's criteria for causation, are a group of minimal conditions necessary to provide adequate evidence of a causal relationship between an incidence and a possible consequence, established by the English epidemiologist Sir Austin Bradford Hill (1897–1991) in 1965.
>Temporality: The effect has to occur after the cause (and if there is an expected delay between the cause and expected effect, then the effect must occur after that delay).[1]

Temporality seems to be essential, yes.

B is *eternally* caused by A, as in caused beyond all time. Note I am talking about *eternity* here, NOT sempiternity.

There could be a change, an action that B being caused by A

>B is *eternally* caused by A
this is *eternally* nonsense

I always thought Jesus was able to forgive any sin, including being a polytheist? Which is what I was trying to say. (Acts 16:31, Ephesians 2:8-9, John 14:6)

This is just a word game to try to cover up an obvious logical contradiction.

If A causes B than A is before B. This requires time.

Here is the strict definition
merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cause

Also I'm using it in the theological sense, which is much more nuanced: en.wiktionary.org/wiki/αἰτία

All this long predates the materialist elaborations of the 20th Century

How is the trinity polyheism? Are you stupid? Do you deny that Jesus is God's son? Holy shit this is blasphemy you stupid shit.

Only if you assume God cannot act outside of time

You could apply the same wonder to a pythagorean cult that demands you accept the existence of a square circle.

Read the Athanasian Creed a couple times until you get more confused.

When did I say the Trinity was polytheistic?

You implied it.

You can't, on one hand, use a simple dictionary definition of a word, and on the other bring in a theological Greek term with no relation to it anyway.

If you want to discuss the intricacies of your theological term, then use an appropriate translation or don't bother. Ain't nobody got time for this.

action can only happen within time. it's the same as saying God can make 2 + 2 = fish

You also need to assume that whatever God interacts with acts outside of time (after all he if the object he is interacting with is affected by time any interaction with is affecte by causality).

We know the universe does act within time.

Therefor when God interacts with it he is confined by time too. Your arguement is refuted.