This probably wont be supwr populqr here, but the new MAC collection has SJWs frothing at the mouth. I think cultural appropriation is also fairly relevant in the larger fashion lens.
So, lets discuss "Cultural Appropriation" in fashion
>Why are people literally losing their shit over a pattern
>Why is any remote reference to a culture now a days instantly deemed appropriation
>Is this right?
The packaging in question
regardless of whether it's offensive, white people will always, always look fucking dumb wearing bindhis and feather headdresses and shit
as far as the mac collection, using the pattern isn't bad in itself but calling it 'tribal' when it's clearly native american inspired is a bit :/
this.
cultural appropriation is only problematic when one culture gets shat on for one thing while another gets praised, like white girls doing middle eastern shit at edm festivals.
or when zendaya got shat on for getting dreads when one of the kardashians got praised out the ass.
i guess id be kinda mad too if when my culture was being represented, it really wasnt and its just white people tryna make a quick buck but idk
But why is that wrong?
Why is one culture so off the table that even mentioning it, gets people angry? Native American culture is amazing, and them and even others outside the community getting offended for them seems silly. Having such high respect for your culture is an ancient thing, not to say being proud of one's culture is wrong but being so protective of it is. No one is looking to take it away from them, or even demean it. It's because I'm outside their perspective but to me, any homage given to them should be taken with dignity. It's a sign that people still are interested in their culture. If all the native Americans ever do is "protect" their culture to the point where no one can even wear anything tribal, talk about it, or reference it, then it will simply die. I see this as a way of preserving it, maybe not perfectly(it is a little heavy handed) but it could very easily be made so much better if the two workedtogether. If native Americans actually collaborated with fashion brands or beauty companies think of the incredible things thay could come of it, and the awareness built for their dying culture.
You can make as big of a stink as you like about it offending you, but at the end of the say their culture is dying. So why not try and revitalize it through the companies and markets that are already so eager to display it.
Hmm, why are you saying it's just white people who do this?
I don't disagree, but other races do it quite often too
why doesn't upset them though?
I think you're taking it a bit to the extreme here. From what I understand native Americans in particular don't agree with the use of their traditional garbs because some of those things are ceremonial, made and used for a specific and significant purpose. Now its used by corny white girls in edm parties with no particular reference or any sort of consideration to how significant it is to the originator.
If anything the culture is being lost from thay "appropriation" because lets face it, they only use it cz its a fucking awesome and huge statement head piece with feathers and beads and shit.
Having a homage tho is an entirely different thing and I can absolutely respect/get behind that.
On the topic there was an article posted a while ago in highsnob about Asian fashion companies and why they prefer using white people as models. Pretty interesting read.
Also for the record i think social media accounts like the angry asian brings up some pretty stupid/shallow arguments sometimes
>why not try and revitalize it through the companies
Because the companies poach ideas, give no credit and circulate no capital back into the cultures they took the ideas from. MAC has explicitly denied being Native-influenced, which is a hilariously dumb lie.
I would agree with that and should've made that clear. Still thougj I feel like they really aren't doing too much wrong, if a corny white girl wants to wear a headdress and roll molly, fuck it, let her. Then make a statement about how silly things like that are, instead of making blanket statements like some have in the past like "white people are killing culture". It's a fine line I guess for most of this, but overall I feel like those outside the community should have absolutley no say, because right now they are simply getting offended for someone else which is almost always not what that person wants.
Yes I understand that, I'm saying if. It's a big if I know but it would still be incredible.
MAC is only doing that now, because they didn't have the obvious foresight to see thay so many would get their Jim mies rustled by this, they can't really do anything else here. Even if they did claim it was NA influenced, people would be just as if not more upset.
It is a very difficult thing to do and takes a lot of effort to give those cultures the proper credit they deserve for originally crating these beautiful things, and I completely agree they shouldn't be putting out progress if they are not willing to make thay effort.
>people would be just as if not more upset
Well, yes, if they did it NOW it would be a clumsy walkback. There are unpleasable SJWs, but if MAC apologized and put effort into compensating Native designers, it would be broadly accepted.
but why is it so hard to explain to white people that they probably shouldnt wear that kind of stuff?
why is it so hard for white people to understand that there are things in the world that they just simply cant have?
visvim is a shit brand that's hyped by jp fuccbois that adore culture that they cannot replicate.
cause whites are evil and racist adnd poc are poor oppressed victims and therefore can;t do anything wrong ever
Why is it so hard to explain to anyone that it isn't 'native Americans' getting mad about this its a small group of media outlets wanting you to think this news matters. I am full blood native live in Minnesota on a reservation near Iron Range. Do you think anyone here cares about the MAC ad? No. Please stop buying into this false media shit. If you want to love my culture help my people now volunteer on reservations cultural appropriation doesn't exist there is only the human culture. Just my 'native' view.
I'm Native American, can I sue :(
You're the reason our people didn't get to keep or homeland. You are at such a disconnect. If you don't mind me asking where were you raised and is your father white??
If volunteering on a reservation ain't Veeky Forums, then I ain't doing it?
>I'm your Indian friend who loves squaw jokes and the Redskins logo, you're totally not a racist now
There are Native women getting mad about it on Reddit. I guess they could be lying about their heritage, but so could you.
>overall I feel like those outside the community should have absolutley no say, because right now they are simply getting offended for someone else which is almost always not what that person wants.
Exactly how i feel. I would be categorized as a "minority group" where i'm at and its surprising how many people get offended by things they think i'd get offended by. Its pretty funny actually
Sort of like microaggression theory. Also identity politics
Yeah this sounds stupid but a very subtle form of racism.
White folk take things without knowledge, understanding, or respect.
White girls get praised for injecting silicone into their lips when black girls have had those lips since birth or "stealing" things which have a spiritual/sacred meaning. And using it for something so... superficial.
"Vibe Tribe" - really MAC lol. At least the models look partially mixed
Nope. He is Native American.
But I was joking, by the way.
if this is your argument you are so far gone and probably need some sort of therapeutic help. Could be borderline CBt is good for that.
Wait, are you saying white girls are appropriating "black culture" by getting lip injections??
Also you're entire argument is embarrassing
Don't bother immaturity runs rampant and hardly anyone here will be able to form their own arguments. Regurgitation is key to pseudo intellectualism. U sound cool tho if u ever in lil Korea town I'll take u to the BROAD and we can go to art shows.
IKAT
OUTRAGEOUS
THIS IS UNPRECEDENTED
So...you can't actually RESPOND to the argument. Unsurprising.
So is it cultural appropriation for me to wear pants instead of a loincloth? Native American asking please don't appropriate this negatively I'm just asking.
No it would just be a waste of time to argue with someone as immature and stubborn as yourself. You're set in your ways. I take it back user you knew better.
It's immature to point out that your argument is factually untrue? It's immature to point out that the appropriation argument is being made by actual Natives, and not white people as your conspiracy theory claims? Okay then.
I'm saying Native American women on tumblr does not represent my culture as a whole. Many of us deal with more serious problems then MAC makeup packaging on a daily basis. I hope you understand now. To the majority of my people this does not matter. Do you not understand what has been taken already? MAC makeup surely won't be a huge issue for the majority of native people is what I meant.
I didn't mean to attack your original argument with the CBt therapy thing that was entirely unhelpful sorry.
None of the fucking people alive today who are part of those cultures contributed to creating those cultures. There's no IP on freaking cultures either. Do you think if a Native American designer creates Bauhus-inspired products, he should fucking pay royalties to Germany?
no, im totally okay with the collection itself, it's just the calling it 'tribal' that's the problem. referring to native americans as 'tribes' implies that they are/were less civilized than colonizers and were this barbaric group of savages, which is obvs racist. im 100% for native american design aesthetics becoming more prevalent in society as long as the actual native americans aren't disrespected in the process. literally a name change and maybe some representation with native american models is all i'm asking
also giving credit to the culture that inspired it, and hopefully not just being like 'it's ~native american~' but actually having a Specific group in mind rather than generalizing a hugely diverse swathe of people
Bread and circuit. People who give a shit about stuff like that are the types who exclusively interact with pop culture and who think they are becoming nascent civil rights leaders by taking offense at inconsequential things. Real, serious issues - like the fact that North Korea has Auschwitz-style concentration camps and is slaughtering/starving its citizens to death - are simply too esoteric for chubby liberal arts majors who work at Starbucks.
What about appropriation of white european culture and white american culture. Should we get mad when an Asian person wears denim jeans, and accuse them of stealing an american cultural icon. How about a black person wearing plaid, Is he appropriating Scottish culture? This is dumb, i think broadening the appeal of culture and sharing elements with other cultures promotes equality. Is it really "progressive" to say "oh, only black people can wear that"
Headdresses are one thing. Patterns, non objective symbols designs, and colorways are another.
Also, the word "tribe" isn't specifically tied to Native Americans. If they called the line "Navajo Bros" or "The Chippewa Brahs," then there would be a justifiable issue.
Daily reminder that the people we consider to be Native Americans were actually the second wave of human migration to the Americas and that they committed genocide against the first wave and that the first wave has now be relegated to a tiny segment of the Amazon, therefore, go fuck yourself.
No because an Asian person wearing jeans or wearing a western suit would claim that it is somehow part of Asian culture and not taken from the west. Only white Americans and corporations can appropriate culture.
but user this doesn't fit the narrative and will be ignored forever
This thread is fucking cancer.
Cultural appropriation is one of the worst memes out there. I can't fathom how such an infantile concept like this could stir up this many discussions, going absolutely nowhere.
there's a company that makes boots called chippewa and nobody cares about their name
That's because they were founded in Chippewa, WI.
People are hating on it because it was done in poor taste and obviously as a gimmick for white girls to enjoy.
In reality its not that big of a problem and the few native americans/others who are complaining about it just want something to cry about
i hate that we live in a world where any of this matters to anyone at all
I think of the attention paid to small problems as baby steps towards change rather than a distraction from large problems. The alternative to tackling small problems is usually not tackling anything whatsoever.
I understand what you're saying, but our philosophies about this are pretty far apart.
wtf I hate white people now
I don't care. Harvard published the study that came to this conclusion.
Ayyy we had to learn about you for boyscouts
We always had to give you guys eagle feathers wrapped in red clothe if we found them which sucked because the feathers are cool af
I think the product names have more direct links
No one complains when Asian do it
People have nothing better to do with their fucking time except complain about Indian shit.
Rezboi here.
25% of cries of Native appropriation comes from the age-old headress argument. I couldn't give a shit personally but it really matters to some old people.
The other 75% is the Navajo nation attempting to make a buck on their famous fabric patterns. It's like getting mad when non-Scots where tartan.
Imo cultural appropriation is real but ultimately harmless. We've got way bigger problems with the oil, fracking, and mining industries to worry about fashion brands.
non-Scots wear*
kill me
I'm pretty much a SJW and while I can certainly understand the problem with it in certain situations, it doesn't bother me all that much and sometimes it gets downright ridiculous. Once my friend tried to tell me that Thievery Corporation and Beirut were terrible bands because they're influenced by music from other cultures and I was like wtf, they literally collaborate with local musicians from around the world, is that really appropriation? Idk I just think music from the Middle East sounds really neat, it appeals to my ears. Am I appropriating it by being attracted to that style? It's catchy as fuck.
I did a sound production certificate degree at an arts college thing. I just did it as a 6th subject because nothing else interested me. There was a girl there who said we shouldn't used a certain scale (Aeolian minor From memory?), basically it had a flattened 7th note which made it sound to 'exotic' and therefore we weren't allowed to use it
Shits fucked
It doesn't lead anywhere first and foremost. It's driving segregation forward, when cultural sharing is concept, which has been used since the early beginnings of the human species. ffs, it is one of the reasons why we've had an advantage over the neanderthals even
People in this thread think head dresses are a strictly NA cultural object 0_0 stick to fashion kiddos
>vibe tribe
wew lad
I'm no trigger nigger, but this is one of those rare occasions when I understand the outrage. It's like Germans wearing costume kippahs to sell scrunchies.
I'm sure some 28 year old blonde yt came up with this and I laugh when I think about the power point presentation she probably made.
Then again it's just a fucking pattern. These ads are the only thing I have a problem with.
The male model in this ad is part native Hawaiian
his name is trigger smith
All I'm getting from you is "no, you argument is dumb & embarssing" which in itself is not a good argument lol
That's NOT what I meant. What I meant is if a WHITE person does something a culture has been doing for YEARS then that's what is "problematic". Like why is that?
How about you actually form a fraction of an argument this time ha
FUCKING TRIGGERED
tbf indians should be grateful we even keep them relevant.
would you rather have your culture misrepresented or not represented at all?
Cultural appropriation.