Did "Soviet rape of Germany" really happen? I mean there are no real proofs and the numbers are very inconsistent.
>1945
1500 rapes
>1955
200,000 rapes
>2015
over 2 million rapes
I'm not saying some German women weren't raped, but it feels like Germans are making the numbers higher to make the world feel sorry for them and give them better conditions after the war.
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Soviets were killing and raping in all countries they were in not just Germany from 1939 to the first years after the war.
It was just some liberation.
I think the whole "rape of women after war" has always been exaggerated. Think of it, what would a sensible woman do when the enemy comes knocking? Offer sex for safety possibly food and etc.
If the enemy isn't defeated, everything is fine. If the enemy is driven out you can just claim you were raped.
The traditional image of a forced rape bysome guy in an alley with huge fighting and physical force has always been a minority of rapes. I also can't see how fucking a dry woman that is constantly squiggling would be enjoyable.
Do you have some family stories concerning the Soviet march through Europe? Because I do.
Or have you at least read some memoirs or books where the author uses first hand accounts? Especially in 1945 the Soviet army was absolutely demoralized, half-Asian mess. It's good when they were only raping dead bodies or defecating inside rich people's houses. It was especially bad in cities like Kolberg.
You forget that most people under attack by the enemy aren't sensible and that most soldiers haven't seen a woman in possibly years. You take what pussy you can get by what means you have. The fact that the invading force likely looks down upon the enemy's women and will give zero shits about them doesn't help, as it switches from a proposition of non-consensual sex that you imply to the show of dominance that rape is.
Pretty much any hostile invasion of a population that has women is going to involve rape.
My grandfather was a silesian peasant.
As the russians came he was 12, they raped his mother before his eyes and a female classmate of him got raped and shot because she screamed so much.
After the confiscation of all their stuff but for some basic survival tools this caused them to flee westwards in trails.
Some trails got machienegunned and looted the ones that made it dispersed and sometimes stayed at polish farms which took pity on them.
At one of those stays, they slept together with some poles in a barn but got a nightly suprise visit by russian marauders who after checking for valuables which werent there raped a polish girl and went away.
He probably didnt lie to me because this wouldnt have made sense in that situation and he had to cry while telling about it.
I could lie to you, so you have to simply trust my account that it was indeed that rapey and that I am not pushing for a reviosionist narrative for whatever purpose.
This is pretty much how almost all family stories go. I can tell a similar tale. From both sides of my family. Basically everyone in these central European countries claim that Soviets were worse than Germans including the one war veteran I talked with.
In a way I can understand why today Russian government wants to promote the "positive" (meaning false) view of their WWII history. One that begins in 1941 and doesn't mention the ugly stuff.
People like to romanticize WWII as this great battle between good and evil, with the Allies as the great heroes. Did the Allies ultimately do good? Yes they did.
But the fact remains that it was still a war, and all the horrors that go along with war weren't absent on either side
By Allies you mean USSR right? They didn't do good but they defeated their former allies. The allies they started the war with. Both countries were doing the same thing and western democracies allied themselves with the one that was further away from them.
No, I was referring to the USA, USSR, France, Britain, Canada, and all the other nations they were allied with.
The Soviets had their own agenda during the war and I would definitely differentiate them from western allies. For this reason in many modern books about WWII they call the factions: axis, liberal democracies and comintern. Figures because the Soviets were moving from one side to the other but above all they had their own master plan.
Oy my you vile antiaryanite it's anutha Dresden
Neva forget the 2 billion
I wasn't aware of that. Interesting.
I still refer to them as 'Allies' only because they were fighting the Axis powers.
Either way, the point of my original post was to say that every side did some bad things, some more atrocious than others. As a matter of fact, I had a good picture to demonstrate this, but I can't find it either in my download files or through a Google search.
>Pretty much any hostile invasion of a population that has women is going to involve rape.
That explains the arab invasion of Sweden currently happening.
>Soviets were worse than Germans
Yeah, Germans killed only few millions of Jews and about 20 millions of others, they were certainly better than Soviets.
Stalin wanted to continue the spread of revolution westwards when he was ready. Hitler was a convenient ally for that time. He was planning the same after WWII but it's debatable how close he was from waging war on the west.
Most modern books have moved away from the incorrect "lesser evil" theory.
Where's the proof the Germans killed any Jews? Also communism killed more Ukrainians and north Korea is worse than Germany.
The US and British were raping Germans as well, but they actually got punished if caught, sometimes killed, especially if they were black. When you consider the number of Soviets invading Germany it's not unthinkable that 2 million rapes occurred.
Well, soviets gulaged a few million too which ended up dying, just because the victims of germany were jews, it does not make their death more horrible on whatever karmascale you value em.
Concerning the "worse" that was from the perspective of the people who had to encounter the troops directly and judged them on their initial behaviour which seems to indeed have differed in qualitiy-whatever horrors would have come afterwards when rule would have been established is another thing which doesnt necessarily crosses your mind when your farm just gets raided.
>Stalin wanted to continue the spread of revolution
His entire ideology was socialism in one country.
>they all died of lice :)
>t. Hans
>the proof
Now that question is even more retarded.
>People don't die in forced labour
Wew.
Question, if you had six million slaves would you work them or just kill them?
This was literally what a Soviet spy working for the Polish ministry (pic related) was telling Beck in 1939 before USSR allied with Hitler co-started WWII. They got even more countries after they switched sides.
There's been so many works about Soviets in WWII and after it I can't believe there are still people who believe it was uninvolved until 1941 holy fucking shit.
>German government confines millions of German citizens
>makes them perform slave labor
>they die
>this is somehow okay
On day 3 in Berlin, ie after siege law expired, the military commander of Berlin walked outside and started shooting rapists.
US and British rapes continued into the 1950s.
He was saying something like "focus on the western border, the Soviets won't interfere, Stalin wants to focus on socialism in his country"
Famous last words. Of course except that he wanted that idiot to believe that.
>US and British rapes continued into the 1950s.
Source?
It's fine because they were Jews and other assorted degenerates. >:)>:)>:)
>german citizens
Back to lefty/pol/. Jews are never loyal to any country, they are only loyal to their own people.
When the west bank is 100% jew you'll wish you'd listened.
Wessie base biographies.
In Japan the vengeance rapes by US and Australians continued into the 1960s when prostitution normalised the rape rates.
>every jew is exactly like the ones in my zionist conspiracy memes
your complete lack of empathy aside, Germans weren't especially picky about who got labeled Jewish, all you needed to have was a sizeable nose
My favorite part comes when someone says "You should be grateful for Soviets because Germans wanted to kill you all and Soviets just the half that didn't agree with their rule"
Wew lad.
>Germans killed only few millions of Jews
oy vey
how horrid
Bull fucking shit. The Nazis measured your physical features to identify whether or not you could be Jewish then they took a sample of your DNA for proof. They never simply said anyone with a big nose was a Jew.
Also, they didn't sentence Jews to forced labour unless they were found guilty of crimes, the Usurers, the deceivers, the corrupters of society, innocent Jews were allowed to live in peace.
I see that only word "Jews" aroused you.
20 millions dead Slavs, which were killed in their villages an cities, are OK.
>Nazis had DNA technology advanced enough to determine if you were a Jew
Are you delusional or just retarded?
I can't find any documentation about these DNA tests, sounds unlikely for the 40s
>Also, they didn't sentence Jews to forced labour unless they were found guilty of crimes, the Usurers, the deceivers, the corrupters of society, innocent Jews were allowed to live in peace.
mhmm, innocent ones get sent to happy nazi summer camp I guess?
You were alive in the 1940s? As a social historian, did you use condoms during early sex?
Do you know fucking anything about genetics? Semitic genes are entirely different to European ones.
Oh wait, race is a social construct, right, comrade?
Lets be honest jews had it great in ww2.
They got food an they didnt had to work.
where did NAZIs get this DNA technology so long before the rest of the world? Aliens, right?
Okay, let me rephrase my response in a way you'll understand.
>DNA testing
>in the 1940's
>being advanced enough to be of any use
Advanced? The DNA was discovered in the 50s, right? And the testing was invented somewhere in late 80s or early 90s?
The double helix itself was discovered in 1953.
For some reason I thought there migjt have been ridimentary DNA testing in the 40's.
Either way my argument stands.
>I also can't see how fucking a dry woman that is constantly squiggling would be enjoyable
>the "jews aren't loyal to any country" starter pack
>war rape is done for enjoyment
It is normally considered a duty to punish the other. Look up the World at War interview about the occupation of Berlin. The husband claimed to be a widower. Some of the Soviet soldiers started crying and pitying him, before going to find another woman to punish for 1941-1945.
>Some of the Soviet soldiers started crying and pitying him, before going to find another woman to punish for 1941-1945.
Now I'm a bit sad.
>For some reason I thought there migjt have been ridimentary DNA testing in the 40's
>Either way my argument stands
And how exactly ?
It's not a duty for everyone, user. Sure the punishment dimension exists, but there's the major fact that you can do whatever you want without consequences that comes into play.
Same goes with all war crimes
The point of my argument was that the Nazis did not do DNA tests to check for Jewishness, either because they did not posess advanced enougg DNA Testing, or it did not exist at the time.
So far no one has provided any evidence for OP except anecdotes and blatant shitposts.
Yes. Rape happened. From 200,000-500,000 according to most estimates.
Is that horrible? Yeah.
Does that mean the Soviets were in the wrong for doing it after they defeated the people who were going to genocide them?
I don't think so.
Everyone raped each other in WW2. A lot of rapes were "rapes." A lot were brutal fucking pigs who deserved to be executed.
But singling out one nation and claiming "they were worse" is irrational when looking at WW2. The Germans didn't consider Russians as human. The Russian rape babies that showed up in 1946, showed they were human.
It aroused me simply because this was about the initial contact between population and soldiers, not what came afterwards in form of deportations when they could be organized.
ok the slavs
I did not say it was ok.
It simply adds up with the number the soviets were willing to kill, both sides were totalitarian societies with great hate towars each other, theres not really a side to pick if you aren biased towards one of their ideologys in the first place desu.
(concerning soldier-population contact only, as this was what this thread is about.)
>women don't get wet during rape
Off the top of my head I recall that they often do experience physiological process the same as consensual sex i can't be bothered finding the pubmed article or whatever
Oh sorry I thought you were the other user. Yeah exactly
Apparently they do yes. And if I remember correctly, it seems to affect their ovulation too.
It's okay, user. This thread has been a bit of clusterfuck.
Given that it is a troll thread.
The OP didn't give me that impression, but it may very well be.
It's unironically natural
>Did [x] really happen? I mean there are no real proofs and the numbers are very inconsistent.
>I'm not saying some [y] weren't [z]ed, but it feels like [y] are making the numbers higher to make the world feel sorry for them and give them better conditions after the war.
This is a straight take from holocaust denial language.
I'd suggest you read wider and deeper if you're going to pursue history.
Goddammit, I see it now. Still though, I didn't want to assume it was a troll thread.
I've seen the language before, but sometimes people who word things like this are asking legit questions.
>but sometimes people who word things like this are asking legit questions.
No. They're not. The most basic reading would prevent them asking questions like this, and if their interest is legitimate they would have done the most basic reading.
Yeah, I suppose you're right.
ITT: The soviets didn't mass rape any one but they should have
>Where's the proof the Germans killed any Jews?
Hansel pls go
>everything I don't like is /leftpol/
The memes are at full throttle
>They got work an they didnt have to food
fixed that for you
This picture looks fake not memeing
the corpses and the walls perspective are fucked up
>The Germans didn't consider Russians as human. The Russian rape babies that showed up in 1946, showed they were human.
This is so fucked up but made me laugh for real.
>/pol/ btfo etc
Only comment worth reading in this fucking thread teebh
>everything I don't like is /pol/
It can go two ways.
:^)
This is a reverse holocaust denial thread. Its really well done.
I doubt it ever happened desu. Germans were ALWAYS known as liars and crooks during the whole history.
>soviets gulaged a few million too which ended up dying,
Do you really imply all gulaged people died?
Rape is synonymous of war. Always has been, always will be. Just as the Germans did in Russia. Just as the Japanese did in China and the DEI. Just as the AngloAmericans did in Europe and the Pacific.
>I mean there are no real proofs
For literally forty years after the war you could not publish a scholarly work in the Soviet Union without it first being approved by the state.
>no real proofs
>proofs
who could be behind this post?
>A civilian woman performs oral sex on a GI in exchange for cigarettes, Passau, Germany, World War II, May 1945.
so, aussies are beasties.
nah, but enough that you get some millions together.
>It aroused me
nigga what?
The chaos and terrifying uncertainty had begun on the afternoon of April 28, when the prisoners first learned that the Red Army was less than twenty-five miles away and driving furiously toward them. The Kommandant, Oberst von Warnstadt, called in Zemke, the son of German immigrants, and informed him that he had orders to evacuate the camp immediately and march the prisoners to an undisclosed location near Hamburg, 150 miles away. If he tried to do that, Zemke warned him, the prison’s secretly trained commando forces would rush the guards and take over the stalag. Zemke persuaded the Kommandant that it would be in his best interest to turn the camp over to him and flee from the Russians with his staff.
The next morning, American Air Force personnel were manning the guard towers and Old Glory was flying from the compound flagpole. Later that day, Zemke sent out reconnaissance patrols to make contact with the Red Army. After locating the Russians, a small party, including Zemke, Bennett, and a translator, drove out to their headquarters. After a breakfast of champagne, vodka, and fried eggs, the Americans returned to the camp. On their way back they passed detachments of the Red Army advancing toward Berlin with terrible purpose. There were hay wagons loaded with crates, bundles, and drunken women, and beside them, marching in disorganized columns, were Siberian, Mongolian, and Ukrainian soldiers—red-faced and wild-looking from a brutal winter campaign. The troops were singing folk songs, drinking vodka straight from the bottle, and spitting curses at the shuttered windows of the German houses they passed. Occasionally a soldier would leave the line to chase a chicken in a farmyard and snap its neck when he caught it. When Zemke’s party stopped to speak to a Russian lieutenant, a barking dog interrupted them. “The Russian nonchalantly shot it.” Bennett could see trouble ahead.
The next day a drunken Cossack soldier rode into camp on a white farm horse. “Why are these men still behind wire?” he wanted to know. “Tear down the fences. Go home. You’re free!” he shouted to the Americans in Zemke’s compound, and shot his long-barreled pistol in the air for emphasis. When Zemke tried to quiet him, the sodden Russian put a gun to the colonel’s head and cocked the hammer. At that point, “the camp went stark raving mad,” said one prisoner. Men that had begun to feel that they were prisoners again under Zemke’s iron rule tore down the fences and hundreds of them fled, either to join the Russians and freed slave laborers in looting and burning the town of Barth, or to the west, to hook up with the Allied armies.
The following morning almost two dozen German women were found strangled or shot in the vicinity of the camp. Every morning after that, terrified women and children from Barth came out to the American camp and begged to be let in, some young women offering their bodies in exchange for sanctuary. The supplicants stayed into the night, and slept in fields underneath the high watchtowers for safety. “This is something we never expected to see,” said airman Forrest Howell, “the Germans seeking protection with us.”
Fearing anarchy, Zemke issued an order that only his men were permitted to enter and leave the camp, but he was unable to keep out armed and inebriated Red Army soldiers, or control their behavior in or outside the camp. “Hundreds of Jerries have been shot or have committed suicide,” wrote Newcomb. “Three women shot themselves about a hundred yards from my barracks and we sent out a detail to bury them. The Mayor of Barth killed himself... and rape cases from six to sixty are brought to our doctors by the Jerries.” Desperate German fathers invited Americans into their homes to sleep with their daughters in order to keep the Russians away. One American airman saw a dozen or more Russian soldiers, in their high black boots, lined up outside a cottage waiting for their turn to violate a German girl.
The next day a Russian colonel drove a herd of confiscated cattle into the American camp and killed them with a machine gun. Prisoners who had been butchers in peacetime cut up the beef, and that night the men of Zemke’s stalag had steak and schnapps for dinner. Later, drunken Americans stole horses and carriages, rigged them like Roman chariots, and raced through the narrow streets of the town, firing revolvers in the air and yelling “Tovarich” to startled Russians. “But most of us obeyed Zemke’s orders and stayed in the camp,” recalled bombardier Oscar G. Richard III, a sweet-natured kid from Sunshine, Louisiana. “I believe that Colonel Zemke was the main reason we eventually got out of Barth without losing many men.”
>My favorite part comes when someone says "You should be grateful for Soviets because Germans wanted to kill you all and Soviets just the half that didn't agree with their rule"
Yep, that's pretty much how commie appologists are saying today.
I have a lot of anecdotes from my country (Bulgaria), since we were Axis allies, some German soldiers were stationed here and all older people who had contact with them tell only good stories (how they were polite, paid for everything, helped and so on) and then the red army liberators came and the rapes and the usual liberation from property began. Fun fact is the only red army graveyards here are from soldiers who were shot for war crimes and soldiers who got poisoned because they were trying to get drunk from stole medical spirits from the drug stores.
I recommend 'Berlin' by Antony Beevor which deals extensively with the fall of Berlin and the aftermath.
>'Berlin' by Antony Beevor
mega.nz
This. German women always threw themselves on the soldiers very easily. The rape thing is probably made up by German government to cover up the embarasment.
>just as the anglo americans did in the pacific
It doesn't count unless you consider australian women to be human
Are you the user trying to force this meme
Next time your shitty country will choose proper allies
>Allies
Bulgaria was so retarded, they managed to be at war with Germany, Italy, Japan, the United States, The Soviet Union and the United Kingdom at the same time.
Also, America basically responded to the Bulgarian declaration of war with "Are you SURE about this?" before declaring war back.
all they wanted was to tap dat rightful macedonian clay
I guess this explains Cologne 2015 then
L E W D
E
W
D
Which they would have had, if Bulgaria hadn't gotten into a war with literally all of their neighbors a few decades earlier.
Seriously, Bulgarians are like everything wrong with Germans, exaggerated, except they're also militarily incompetent.
Besides, they managed to increase their territory while being part of the axis, so they really have no right to bitch about the peace settlement.
Yet people still believe russian propaganda about ww ii
It's almost like it was a) before widespread personal communications b) too polite to put "raped by commies after the war? Tell us all about it!" on a billboard to get people to come forward c) in areas that would be controlled by the communists for the next 60 years.
It shouldn't really be surprising that numbers change, especially after reunification.