So, Zizek was heckled at Left Forum 2016 and the majority of the audience walked out. There were anti-Zizek leaflets strewn around the room. Zizek was caught reading one of them after his talk.
Apparently the audience were offended by Zizek's remarks that some of the refugees coming to Europe included rapists and criminals. Plus, there was considerable anger when Zizek said racists jokes and words can play a progressive role.
Is this really the state of the "Left" in current year? Or were the audience right?
I'm not going to comment on left/right to be political, but some statements are not astounding simply because there is some grain of truth. Some truths, like telling the fat lady in line she'd feel better with a lower caloric intake, aren't helpful in a specific moment.
Civilized culture seems to have given rules, like an objective set of truths, and maybe it's true somewhere buried this is a fact, but these people are not moving from one insulated environment to another in this fashion. All of them, each and every one, is traumatized somehow, and complicate the issue with the fact of existing questionable societal morality before the shit hit the fan, you have a recipe for very bad news. Calling them out as murderers and rapists isn't going to fix the fact they may do these things, and bringing attention to the fact some will, potentially penalizes, or puts in more direct peril, the relatively innocent.
I remember, during Hurricane Katrina, there were a number of unspeakable crimes committed in shelter areas and, while none of it was excusable, we need to understand the position of a population in crisis and not sensationalize the situation to make ourselves seem more intelligent or our words more profound.
Juan Evans
Yeah, a lot of leftists are islamophobiaphobics. But it doesn't seem that here it is their main argument against him.
And the last piece about Trotsky is strange. Was this written by stalinists ?
Christopher Bailey
p.s. Had I been there, I'd have heard him out, asked him after if he "feels better now", and shook my head as I walked away.
Charles Bennett
That entire paper is like watching 'Slackers'.
Luis Martin
> Is this really the state of the "Left" in current year? Or were the audience right?
No idea, besides my gf I've never talked about Zizek with any of my' friends on the left.
Does he actually 'accept the lie' that liberal democracies are highly democratic and have an over-reliance on democracy?
Because that seems quite odd for a Marxist.
Parker Kelly
>Calling them out as murderers and rapists isn't going to fix the fact they may do these things, and bringing attention to the fact some will, potentially penalizes, or puts in more direct peril, the relatively innocent. What about the residents of the countries they're going to? As you point out, their societies have questionable moral standards to begin with, and they're traumatized--it's legitimately dangerous to just allow the unmonitored movement of unlimited and uncountable quantities of Asians and Africans into Europe. While some European countries may have caused some of the harm these refugees are fleeing, there's no reason to turn around and disregard the safety of citizens in European states because "muh Islamophobia." National security ought to be the first priority of any nation-state.
David Jones
>Apparently the audience were offended by Zizek's remarks that some of the refugees coming to Europe included rapists and criminals.
I don't get why that is so controversial. It's like people don't read the newspapers.
Gavin Walker
>comparing unsolicited advice to an academic forum.
I literally can't even
Brody Clark
>It's like people don't read the newspapers. It's like Communists live in a world where individuals don't commit crimes and the only things that have agency are institutions and masses, and therefore one cannot criticize a Muslim without criticizing Islam, or a Jew without criticizing Jews.
Nolan Foster
So... Why left sides with an Islam again? Because I can't imagine anything more anti-left than Islamic ideology.
John White
Rearrange these words in the correct order:
off, fuck, pol
Easton Howard
Because muh progress Literally Progressivism is a giant contradiction because of its embrace of diversity and its opposition to integration At a more extreme point on the spectrum, Communists just want to see capitalism burn, so they're fully willing to lie about the nature of Islam and cover up the crimes of Muslims if it means forwarding their own goals.
James Hughes
That doesn't look like a very serious argument.
Bentley Butler
Conversely, I also don't understand why the Left always ascribes the worst motives possible to people's opinions.
If you want to stem the mass-immigration it must be because you're a racist Nazi who wants to kill millions of Muslims.
Connor Anderson
Rearrange these words >yourself >kill
Wyatt White
I've had alot of professors in my life and I didn't think much of some of them, even with their credentials.
Justin Brooks
> Because muh progress > a high level of discourse
Kayden Cox
These were also printed off and left on the floor for people to find.
Anthony James
Well then how about this for an argument: For the purpose of determining what is history, please do not start threads about events taking place less than 25 years ago. Veeky Forums is not /pol/, and Global Rule #3 is in effect. Do not try to treat this board as /pol/ with dates.
Care to refute it? Care to "redpill" me?
Isaac Rivera
Because we're used to oppose the far-right, and are reluctant to start criticizing and denouncing something when they did it first. That being said, the left isn't monolithic on its view of Islam and Muslims.
Juan Scott
Ah yes, because 'the Left' is a hivemind, right? With no amount of disparate ideologies and individuals.
Of course. It's so simple.
Parker White
Politics and hyperboles always go hand in hand
>If you don't limit immigration, it means you're a self-hating genocidal bastard that wants to destroy the white race
Daniel Wood
>And humanities
The 'fuck off pol' thing is like some kind of parallel cancer. /pol/ probably isn't great but neither is a group dedicated to (fruitlessly, given that this is Veeky Forums) stop discussion.
Josiah Adams
Not an argument. >For the purpose of determining what is history, please do not start threads about events taking place less than 25 years ago. Veeky Forums is not /pol/, and Global Rule #3 is in effect. Do not try to treat this board as /pol/ with dates. I'm not OP, so this isn't even an argument directed against me. This is a humanities board, discussing Zizek's opinions is not violating the rules. To a greater extent than the right is, yes, that's true.
Isaiah Nelson
>oppose the far-right, and are reluctant to start criticizing and denouncing something when they did it first.
The only actual far-right(the nazis) loved Islam. We all know that certain Nietzsche quote that Hitler loves.
Lincoln Lewis
What's ridiculous is that people can accept that a native population is a diverse group of people which encompasses everyone from bus drivers to serial killers, but a large sample of another country's native population (the mass of migrants) can't have the same kind of diversity.
All Zizek is doing is reminding people not to idealise a group of people just because they're presented as victims in the current context. Liberal capitalist humanists (who have mistaken themselves for 'the left') are technically exploiting war refugees to further a political agenda, in the form of repressing the refugees' individuality and agency. It's transparently patronising, arguing that the refugees are basically blameless, helpless children.
Eli Gomez
You're basically describing the melting pot society in which I grew up. I probably have a different perspective of all of this than any garden variety European. I can listen to the police radio at any given time and the thing squawks with emergency police calls, in my 200k (ish) home city.
I can say I admire the countries accepting the refugees and sympathize with the issues they're facing. That probably isn't much help, though.
Dylan Cruz
Tip zmeri to dela. Fucking thin skinned pussies.
Noah Cook
>Nazis >Right-wing >We all know that certain Nietzsche quote that Hitler loves. Hitler was a Schopenhauerfag, the relationship between Nietzsche and National Socialism is far more contentious than you imply.
Matthew Brooks
>Ah yes, because 'the Left' is a hivemind, right? With no amount of disparate ideologies and individuals.
None of which are ideologies that tolerate opposition to immigration for any reason, because it means you're a racist.
Please pay attention to how reality in Europe especially functions these days. Even the police didn't report on the mass sexual assaults in Cologne because they were afraid of it being "exploited by right wing extremists".
Brayden Allen
would you sheath your katana first though
Wyatt Sanders
>I can say I admire the countries accepting the refugees and sympathize with the issues they're facing. Why do you admire them? Because they want to enjoy the same crimes that you overhear on your scanner?
Jace Richardson
> To a greater extent than the right is, yes, that's true.
How do you work that out? How is the 'right' more diverse in their ideologies than the 'left'?
Are fascists and conservatives 'more different' than anarchists and social democrats?
How do you even measure that?
Gabriel Baker
Because they're providing help for human beings?
Lincoln Hernandez
while disregarding the harm this help will do to their own people?
states should prioritize their own citizens over foreigners, how is this not obvious
Eli Young
there is no such thing as a "human being"
Chase Martinez
Not even Ryan Gosling in Drive?
Alexander Scott
You're the one implying that it can be determined in the first place. You're the one who implied somebody was referring to a metaconsciousness among Leftists, rather than the use of power to silence narratives that go against the ones that must be pushed if society is to go along with a Leftist agenda. With even classical liberalism being considered a form of right-wing extremism by anyone who wears the title "leftist," I think it's perfectly fair to say that the Right prefers freedom of thought and speec in general, whereas the Left prefers freedom of thought within parameters, and doesn't care about free speech except when it can be used to forward the interests of pornographers.
Jackson Carter
he's a human bean
Parker Green
For human beings that they have no obligation whatsoever to protect, with resources that could go to their own citizens, who already have legitimate grievances with their respective governments, and who now have to worry about terrorism and the sublation of European Christian and and secular society into the Ummah.
Joseph Davis
"Pol, off! Fuck!!!" she said, realizing that her parents had just come home.
Pol, in the throes of coitus, was too caught up in his actions to care about the potential consequences of being caught in the act by his girlfriend's parents.
Seconds later the door opened and everything went to hell. Pol would later reflect that the long-term consequences of not taking her advice, "Pol, off!" had been less than desirable, but the short term gratification had made it all worth it in the end.
Alexander Rogers
I can't live by that philosophy. I've cared for too many imperfect people in my life.
I'm not going to argue with you, because you're right. The frustrating thing is that something must be done and passing the buck, hoping someone else picks up the reins, only goes around the circle so far. At some point, it's better to step up and confront such an issue head-on, even when it's uncomfortable, maybe particularly so.
I really, honestly, hope some good percentage of the people being helped rationalize how it is affecting everyone else and make positive contributions. It works in the USA. We're literally built of every group nobody wanted over history.
Landon Sullivan
Yeah man, I really admire welfare states, I want to be one myself someday
Xavier Collins
Progressives live in a state that is completely disconnected from reality desu senpai, they're more concerned with moral posturing and trying to recreate the 1960's civil rights movement (where there was actually something legitimate to fight) than actually solving or engaging with real world problems. Image is more important than substance and from what I can gather it's 90% moral posturing/grandstanding, 10% hot air/immaturity.
Justin Nguyen
This is a pretty common complaint in the USA. We're the number one contributor of not only military assistance but also food, medical and other aid for struggling populations outside our country, while some populations in our own territory struggle just as hard.
Leo Evans
Admit it, commies admire the refugee crisis because they want a destabilized and collapsing Europe
Carter Smith
>It works in the USA. Europe, no matter how Americanized it might be, isn't the USA If I'm honest I'd be happy to take in every last refugee to my country if they were Christian
Samuel Harris
What about a real hero?
Eli Morales
>We're the number one contributor of not only military assistance but also food, medical and other aid for struggling populations outside our country, while some populations in our own territory struggle just as hard. We honestly should have let the Jews establish a state somewhere in the continental US, not only would we not need to send them foreign aid, it would be good for race relations. How much 'stability' has our money bought us in Egypt since the Arab Spring began? Serious question, which regimes have we funded there and which ones have been anti-American?
Nolan Hernandez
>We honestly should have let the Jews establish a state somewhere in the continental US
Was there ever a plan, would they ever said yeah why the fuck not, it is not like Israel is holy to us.
Jaxson Harris
>We honestly should have let the Jews establish a state somewhere in the continental US Israel should've been founded in place of the state of Arizona. It's got a desert climate, militarised police and a border fence with poor brown people on the other side.
Jackson Clark
Capitalist infiltration and appropriation has neutered the Western left.
If the left is going to succeed in the developed world, we're going to need to convert mass numbers of SJWs to convince them that class oppression is no less urgent need than racism or sexism.
Charles Lopez
>Syrians already live in refugee camps in Turkey, Lebanon, etc >were doing alright >Merkel announces that Germany's gates are open and that Germany's welfare system is available to any and all comers, so long as they apply for asylum >anyone from a shithole country + refugees surges into Europe to get on that there gravy train >European citizens understandably are butthurt, especially because the 'doctors, engineers, women and children' narrative isn't matching up with the masses of men coming in >then a Syrian family who was being smuggled across for eurobucks's boat capsizes, dead kid washes up on shore >leftist press and do-gooder politicians orgasm over the migrant snuff porn >use it as a pretext to throw up all of Europe, not just Germoney >people from all corners of the globe flood in, millions of them, commensurate rise in sex crimes and all other sorts of undesirable factors, e.g. massive gender imbalance in Sweden among young men >politicians pat themselves on the back and smear themselves in oil as their enter the circle jerk pow wow and start comparing their migration figures while jacking off >all this instead of simply funding refugee camps along the border with Syria which is cheaper, quicker, doesn't bring the social/economic problems to Europe and will not have long lasting problems on Yurop
Letting in refugees has less than nothing to do with helping them. It has everything to do with accomplishing mass migration under another pretext and showing everyone how virtuous you are.
I take it you're the kind of person who gets fleeced by gypsy beggars, aren't you
Henry Butler
...
Blake Jones
Class struggle is almost meaningless in the modern age. The lower bar has been raised so high that the poor of today are the upper middle class of Marx's time. Now it's not about fighting the rich for basic economic justice, it's about fighting the rich for additional privileges and gibsmedat. It's almost completely devoid of meaning in the west outside of a few commies wistfully hoping that 1917 is going to happen again in their suburb outside of los angeles.
Gabriel Carter
>Nazis >Right-wing Remember kids - if it's not radical libertarianism it's not right wing at all!
Austin Walker
>Class struggle is almost meaningless in the modern age Maybe if the only people who exist in the world are middle class anglos, otherwise class is very relevant.
Joseph Gutierrez
I thought that was written by liberals, but it turns out they're uncritical Stalinists lmao
Easton Howard
This guy was born in the USA, the son of a Mexican father and Yaqui Indian mother, who died when he was young.
Fast forward to 5:30, if you don't feel like sitting through the Reagan speech, and listen to him talk.
He is one of very few people who have ever been awarded the US top military honor while still breathing.
It's easy to group "all immigrants", but I'll tell you, sometimes you're making a tragic mistake and missing incredible opportunities. While his astounding service certainly makes him stand out, he's not the only hispanic person to make a significant contribution for his community and his nation.
Maybe this won't say much to you. Maybe you'll get what I mean.
Anthony Thompson
His main argument concerning democracy is that liberals are using democratic institutions to support and sustain themselves.
The elections ARE free and fair, but because our society is neither, people vote against their interests for liberal candidates and policies.
Ayden Howard
>Was there ever a plan There were numerous alternatives. The Zionists didn't take them because muh Jerusalem. Or muh Protocols, depending on who you ask. This guy gets it.
Nolan Edwards
>Is this really the state of the "Left" in current year? yes. There's a reason why far-right parties have been so successful lately. Front National for example, has effectively substituted the traditional left in its strong opposition to bureaucratic statism, capitalism/neo-liberalism and globalization. The left is now incapable of this. It retreated into complete delirious fantasies, pathetic narratives against neo-liberalism while at the same time supporting universalist ideals that nowadays favor nothing else but that same neo-liberal globalism.
The left has been in a self-destructive path since 1968. Its now arriving at its inevitable demise. Something new will come out of it.
Jayden King
THEN STOP FUCKING UP THE MIDDLE EAST WITH THE SHITTY BORDERS YOU CREATED AND EXPORTING DEMOCRACY BECAUSE OF MUH MENIFEST DESTINY. Fuck, when will any American go to Hague?
Zachary Lee
These types of quasi-liberal tankies often have no problem criticizing all Jews, though
Matthew Garcia
What does this have to do with anything?
Nathan Lewis
>THEN STOP FUCKING UP THE MIDDLE EAST WITH THE SHITTY BORDERS YOU CREATED AND EXPORTING DEMOCRACY BECAUSE OF MUH MENIFEST DESTINY.
Agree desu
>Fuck, when will any American go to Hague?
Never, because international law doesn't actually exist, it's just an excuse to get rid of undesirables. The main reason the west is butthurt about Putin is because at a certain point he shrugged and said 'if you do it, I'll do it', and exposed the hypocrisy of it all.
William Perry
He's a strong example of a person who wanted to fight for a country that accepted and encouraged him. Personalities like that are created when you show a little faith in people.
Zachary Martin
>Front National
I think you mean the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei, right user? Because anyone who is against the leftist status quo is a far right neo-Nazi who *always* leaves his oven on when he leaves the house and who needs to sit down and shut up because how could any """""far right""""" concerns be material?
Austin Garcia
I'm not seeing a connection with my post.
Isaac Powell
The best part is at 16:48 lol
Charles Rivera
ok. /shrug.
Robert Jenkins
it's a thing called 'cherrypicking' user
>Maybe you'll get what I mean. that we should let in hordes of illegal immigrants who will spike crime rates just because a few are good?
>all of those kneejerk comments referencing Donald Trump kek
Isaiah Nelson
Can someone remind me why Americans are allowed to talk about European politics, which they obviously don't understand at all?
Josiah Brooks
>It's easy to group "all immigrants"
Tbqh, I don't think anyone is saying that there aren't stellar people in every ethnic or racial group.
The question is, by allowing millions of immigrants into Europe, how many of those millions do you think are like Roy Benavidez?
I think it's a fraction of a percent. The rest will work shit jobs for shit pay for their capitalist overlords, and will be disenfranchised into ghettos, and turn to shit like gang violence and Islamic terrorism, just like we see happening right now.
Mason Butler
What about the Jews who were involved in the implementation of the Soviet policies that caused the Ukrainian famine? Do those tankies hate them?
Jordan Morgan
Mexicans are much more American than white Americans though
Caleb Howard
What are you implying? Something racist?
Alexander Gray
you're ignoring the biggest problem: before Merkels speech, human traffickers had already plenty of business. What Merkel effectively did, and every piece of EU policy in regards to the mediterranean refugees onwards, was reinforce the traffickers business and actually making the crisis even more acute. This was going on since 2013.
I completely agree with you into simply heavily funding refugee camps along the border of Syria and clamping down very very hard on traffickers.
Jonathan Sanchez
Great vid, but your tactics are disingenuous
Christopher Taylor
>Fuck, when will any American go to Hague? Never. Thats a completely risible and pathetic question Do you even contemporary politics?
Jaxson Turner
Left devouring itself, chapter CXXVIII
Lucas Anderson
There are only 'people'. There being 'your' people and 'not your' people is an invention of your mind.
Daniel Nguyen
I think you're making terribly wrong assumptions about my political leanings.
I may have considered myself a leftist when I was less informed and younger, but not anymore.
I dont consider myself right-wing either though
Asher Gonzalez
Is that you Neil Degrasse Tyson?
>NO BORDERS wer all hooman lol culture wots that
Adrian Gutierrez
It was a sarcastic post user, I was making fun of the media which constantly rings their hands and faints whenever a whiff of the so-called "far right" (aka classical liberal/anti mass migration parties) make the news
Jace Perry
>The only actual far-right(the nazis) >nazis >far-right wew
Sebastian Davis
this is just an emotional appeal
For every guy like that, you had thousands upon thousands of others who were completely useless or outright detrimental. Either way, its unimportant because the US is not and will never be like Europe. Get this through your head: you are a nation of immigrants and of an admixture of different cultures and ethnicities. Europe is not. We had enough difference between ourselves. And we had plenty of conflict with just those small cultural differences within europe
Samuel Bennett
>gaslighting 101
Kayden King
universalist humanism is just as much an invention of your mind. In fact, its a much bigger abstraction than actual tribalism, which had an actual teleological purpose for human societies
Alexander Lee
>There being 'your' people and 'not your' people is an invention of your mind. And just, you know, a key part of various legal traditions native to the West.
Owen Torres
Every human has a different set of values and beliefs from the next. The 'lines' between 'every individual person is their own country' and 'every person belongs to the same country' is arbitrary and meaningless. Only useful to state-power competitors, not people interested in normative ethics or political theory
David Roberts
>There were numerous alternatives. The most "serious" plan was invoked by Vladimir Lenin to have to Jews colonize one desolate part of Russia. There was never a plan to give all Jews US visas, obviously.
Landon Baker
oh ok. I think I'm usually pretty good at detecting sarcasm, but you never know if it isnt just some little /pol/ turd being hysterical
