What do you think of manifest destiny?

Seems like a bullshit justification for settlers. Not that they really needed a justification, but hey.

As an European, I see it as a monument of hypocrisy and I wonder at the fact that people carried it around without any shame.

If you want to conquer land for your people, fine. But don't try to pass it as anything but mundane plain conquest.

It was inevitable, I think we can all agree to that.

It's not like Europeans didn't make similar, bullshit justifications ala White mans burden.

Expansionism has been the natural course of humanity since the beginning.

>It's not like Indians were doing anything with the land.

They were living on it

>but tribal peoples can't defend property

It's ok to steal things if you can? Sounds like "it's ok for white people to nig nog, because I'm white lol we dindu nuffin!"

>It's ok to steal things if you can?
Yes, morality is a spook.

t. Chief Sitting Listerine

It was American imperialism though with the twist of killing or displacing every single person that lives in the place you are taking over instead of ruling over them. Its called settler-colonialism and its brutal as shit for the people living there

Canadians, Australians and Americans will unironically defend and justify it despite the blatant double standard.

Explain the Venetian Republic right fucking now.

I dislike it because having three fucking countries for all the massive continent is boring as fuck and destroys my autism.

Le Happy Merchants who would betray their allies if payed well enough.

>irony the post
Unless you're from Croatia or Macedonia or some podunk shithole, you have a very recent history of just the same conquest.

also Brazil and Argentina had their version of manifest destiny

It's the best example of how USA was always the safeguard of minorities and opponent of imperialism in any form.

The white mans burden was not written as something to take seriously, much like eating Irish Babies.

In fact the white man burden poem is everything opposite of what people think it is

Complete bullshit excuse for near-genocidal hatred of native Americans and naked land/power grabbing.

Sure as fuck did make America stronger, though. Thanks angry ancestors.

>The white mans burden was not written as something to take seriously
Except it was, which is the point. It was the end result of the popularization of Social Darwinism and dabbling into race theory that proved to be excellent propaganda along with the idea of a "mission to civilize" the uncivilized people.

>Although Kipling's poem mixed exhortation of empire with somber warnings of the costs involved, imperialists within the United States of America understood the phrase "white man's burden" as justifying imperialism as a noble enterprise
>While Kipling may have intended the piece as a form of satire, much of Kipling's other writing does suggest that he genuinely believed in the "beneficent role" which the introduction of Western ideas could play in lifting non-Western peoples out of poverty and ignorance
>Lines 3–5, and other parts of the poem suggest that it is not just the native people who are held in captivity, but also the "functionaries of empire", who are caught in colonial service and may die while helping other races less fortunate than themselves (hence "burden").

Yes, you proved my point. It was misinterpreted and thus used to justify colonization.

But my point was that The white mans burden argues against colonization while many people thinks it argues for it. Perhaps I did a mistake in saying
>The white mans burden was not written as something to take seriously
Should have just said satire.

And you'd be correct, but hindsight is 20/20.

native americans were just as brutal, it wasn't a case of white devils massacring innocent na'avi

This.

muh indian giving

How would modern liberals have solved this problem?

Would they strictly enforced laws saying you can only get land from natives through fair trade?

Would they grant natives political rights or form alliances with them?

What would America be like today? Would we be a confederation of lots of tribal states which over the years adopted European technology and European immigrants?

A reasonable continuation of American foreign policy.

>It's ok to steal things if you can?
Might makes right. If we can conquer it from them we can have it. If Mexicans are able to beat us then they can have whatever the fuck they conquer. It's how the world's always worked.

wew lad
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Justification for US imperialism?

The White Man's Burden was people complaining about spending time and effort "cvilizing" extant populations And the absurdity of using that as a moral justification for Imperialistic shenanigans and then it started being used with a completely straight face by the people it was directed at.

>it's alright to kill if others are doing it too xD

> It was the end result of the popularization of Social Darwinism and dabbling into race theory
maybe in part
but there were plenty of people who wanted to do the same thing for religious reasons

America IS pretty exceptional if you think about it.

>200 years old
>Fought le ebin British memepire and formed an alliance with the French
>Incredible density in technological inventions compared to other nations
>Literally in the baby stages of watching a superpower evolve in something even bigger
>Holds world economy
>Holds world entertainment industry
>Holds world gun trade
>Holds world drug trade
>Holds world pornography trade
>Landed on the moon
>Split the atom
>Won a whole bunch of Olympic medals
>Invented dinosaurs (Jurassic Park, The Land Before Time, Survival of Ark)

Not even le epic meeming when I say this, but America is decently over represented in modern imagery.

t. Hans (Mfw my name is literally Hans)

Miracles of peace. You share border with two countries, and have been scorched two times + civil war. The UK follows American achievements pretty closely (Oxford and Cambridge being the most relevant European universities, in sciences etc.) and they haven't been invaded since 1066. Since the the independence in 1776, the French, Germans and Russians have reduced each other to ashes regularly every 20-30 years. America has been a natural refuge for foreign scientists for the very reason.

Trying to take nothing away, it's true that the American soil has given birth to numerous advances in science and culture, by US and foreign persons alike, but it's mostly thanks to stability of the country.

> You share border with two countries,
Canada shares the border with one.

600 seconds in photoshop.

Why would "what I think" be relevant to historiographical discourse? High quality posting ahoy.

>As a European...
If you're British, which I suspect you are, then you're actually responsible for the only successful genocide in recent history (Tasmanian Aborigines). Even if you aren't British, your country most likely committed several atrocities far worse than anything America has done, and was likely much prouder of them at the time, and perhaps even today, than Americans were about Manifest Destiny at any point in their history.

It's worth noting that 9/10ths of the native population of the Americas were killed by introduced diseases. When people give figures of then Native American population before and after European contact while implying that they were mostly killed violently, you're being lied to.

>It's ok to steal things if you can?
If it can't be defended, taking it isn't theft.

nice

>your country most likely committed several atrocities far worse than anything America has done
Nope. scandinavian.

Why hasn't Switzerland accomplished half as much as America despite being even more peaceful and stable? Keep in mind that they had a significant head start as well.

There was a 9/10 chance that I was right. And if you're Swedish, your country openly collaborated with the Nazis and now politely tries to ignore it by saying they were "neutral" like Switzerland.

>literal pillagers and badits that made their women fight that stole from and raped christians that dindu nuffin
Fucking vikings

I'm not saying the Euros weren't dicks, I'm saying the natives were also dicks.

If you went back in time you'd be naive to trust either of them.

Everyone raided everyone. We never genocided anyone though.

did you know that the word "rape" in English is actually a loanword from Old Norse?

Not everyone forced their women to become literal warriors. Savages

>Tasmanian genocide
>most recent

Not everyone has forgotten about about the Moriori. Why kill them all off when you could enslave them and then simply forbid them from breeding with their own? Guaranteed genocide within a generation. Last full-blooded one died in 1933.

what's wrong with that? seems pretty alright to me, if you get what i'm sayin

I meant genocide by Europeans. Thanks for telling me about them, though. It's good to know stuff like this.

Propaganda for expansionist horseshit.

Make it monochromatic and silk screen it and I bet a modern art gallery would buy it.

Blame Chuck the Great; His stupid beef with the Saxons started the viking age.

>Would we
it wouldn't be you, dummy, you'd have been born in the motherland, away from high fructose corn syrup.

It's from the Latin.

Synonym for greed.

Manifest destiny is an exceptional thing, when US was white for whites
Now that dream is being curbed by leftists and immigrants (the non-european ones)

America is always right.

America is a country that was founded, unlike other nations, not on interest, but on pure ideals, those of freedom and liberty, these ideals guide mankind fowards, and is why America became the workshop of the world.

Everyone is born an American, no matter where you are, be you an enslaved African, a peasant European or a Chinese farmer. Everyone is born American, but outside of America. This justifies our nation to go abroad and conquer other territorries, as it happened in the march to the West.

You can only be called truly free if you are under the territorry of These United States.

US laws are human laws, they operate under the logic of liberty, and nothing else. Everything else is a consquence. America is a pure nation.

My dream is that one day the United States will dominate Earth, and by doing so, everyone will be able to call themselves free.

We are God's chosen people, God's chosen country, we can call ourselves citizens. In the end, everyone else in the world is subject to their nations, their rulers and overlords.

This is what manifest destiny means to me.

Under that logic Starbucks could take over your property because you were not doing anything with it either.

This sounds like someone in fifth grade wrote this for his social studies class in some shitty suburb of Buffalo, NY.

And got a B+

>You can only be called truly free if you are under the territorry of These United States.

Would have been cooler if it literally was achieved with the help from a floating giantess.

>America is freedom
I hate this idea.
I get that maybe in the past it was such a huge thing, but now?

Nigger, pretty much every non shit-tier third world shithole has freedom. UK has freedom. Ireland has freedom. Canada has freedom. All these places have freedom.

Freedom is not exclusive to America and while in the past it's cool that it was such an important part of what America was going to be, when I hear someone today or really in the past decade say "America is great because of FREEDOM!" it makes me cringe so hard.

UK doesn't even have freedom of speech

I'll take population for 200 Alex

Yes it does

>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treason_Felony_Act_1848

>to even have a daydream about disbanding the monarchy is STILL a prosecutable offence in the dismal medieval land of "great" britain

I live in Australia, and if I say something insulting about the Queen I can technically get my ass hauled to Britain and be stuck in the Tower of London for the rest of my days

But thats just part of our le quirky traditions which the tourists come to see xD

>1848

Nigger. You can stand in london and chant "british soldiers go to hell" and get away with it.

>technically
Right, except that wouldn't happen.
Look at NI, for fuck's sake. People there daily tell everyone how much the queen can fuck off and how they'd love Ireland to leave the UK and nothing happens except for a few salty Unionists.

Nobody gives a fuck, famalam

>the act hasn't been used or been relevant since 1916

Okay mate.

the fact remains that it's still illegal
America gets made fun of all the time for archaic laws that are still on the books but are never enforced, so how come doing the same to Brits isn't fair

>I'm 15 and this is deep

It's not that it isn't fair, the point was that to say America is great because "freedom" is moronic and everyone knows it except for, seemingly, the americans who eat that shit up.

Freedom is not a valuable commodity anymore, it's a given anywhere that isn't absolutely awful. So to say "America is better than UK/Whatever because of FREEDOM" is retarded, user.

Neither does America unless you can brave a lynch mob for voicing unpopular opinions

Yes, but the distinction in America is that there aren't arbitrary "hate speech" laws. Unless you're going out of your way to incite a crime or committing slander/libel (both of which are insanely hard to prove in court), there's no restriction on speech.

I probably have more guns than you and also better gardening skills. Can I take over your house?

>world morality

Morality only applies to those within a society i.e. social contract. Calhoun have the Indians a chance to become American citizens but they declined, they chose their path.

delusional bullshit based on Jew mythology and faggy Angela used to feel better about stealing lands off frenchies, mexicuntas, Brits and natives

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