Christians, what's your opinion on the "where was God" argument?

Well then you're a dumbass for using it to start discussion, imbecile.

How many Christians believe that the world isn't that old, though? It seems like whenever a creationist who believes the world is 6000 years old shows up on Veeky Forums or in most other settings, really, they're treated as a joke but Christians in general are sometimes taken seriously.
I don't really get it to be honest.

>How many Christians believe that the world isn't that old, though?
Most Christians throughout history

Well the first religion practiced by humans was Islam, it just didn't survive and wasn't presented perfectly to us until the prophet Muhammad.

...

You mean most christians who existed before modern science did? Just so you know, there were various christian theologians(Origen and Augustine who leap immediately to mind) who argue for non-literal interpretations of the book of genesis.

I'm not going to say that the bible is true or that the paranormal claims of xtianity are credible, they are not, but at the same time not every christian, even way back when, was some sort of drooling imbecile who took every passage of the bible absolutely literally either.

There's a plethora of archaeological evidence against that. Islam first appeared around the 600s AD, when Muhammad "revealed" it (i.e. came up with it). Better bait harder, faggot.

Well, I'm Mormon, and I think that God
a) had Judaism as his chosen religion up until 0 BC and
b) allowed these things to happen to give man trials to test their faith.

Also, quoting somebody who's saying that
>it [christianity]... can't be believed by thinking persons
is kind of rude to the Christians you're discussing with.

You completely missed the point.

Do atheists believe Christianity is about stopping tsunamis and volcanoes or something?

What a stupid thread.

the theory of evolution seems pretty compatible with the bible to me. why is it such a big deal to think of the book of genesis as a simplified version of events? if god is behind the scenes steering human evolution, he still created man. the only difference to genesis would be the time scales and adam and eve representing large populations instead of two literal people.

>Muhammad "revealed" it (i.e. came up with it)

*tip*

This

>it's just a metaphor, bro

Nobody thought this until the modern era, when science started to show the literal account was not true. There is no evidence at all that it was intended to not be taken literally.

It picks some holes in the narrative of original sin. Such as, what the fuck was it then?

Supposedly about 108,000,000,000 (one hundred and eight billion) people have lived on earth since the dawn of humanity.

What happened to the 80,000,000,000 born before Christianity?

They went to Valhalla.

I'm pretty sure Origen was advocating taking it non-literally in the 3rd century. I still think it's a weak defense, but let's not distort shit here.

That's interesting if true, but if anything an obscure fringe heretic or two advocating a non-literal interpretation just underlines that that isn't what people believed.

Despite being a heretic, Origen was still considered an important thinker in Christianity.

>There is no evidence at all that it was intended to not be taken literally.
i'm not saying it was, just that concepts like things evolving over millions of years would have been to hard for the people of those times to understand so god revealed it to them in simplified terms.

psychoactive plants. early humans would have had little self-awareness, but over years of eating forbidden psychoactive plants would have evolved to the point where they could understand concepts like feeling shame at being naked. at that point they were no longer ignorant like animals. they could determine good from evil and so had to be held accountable for their actions.

Judaism and its antecedents.

Alright fuck off Terrance, no one takes the stoned ape hypothesis seriously.

it makes perfect sense.

>life expectancy 25 years
And dropped. I don't really need to argue with a pretentious drunk when his own brother is willing to do it for me.

If you have a surface level understanding of biology and evolution then yeah, its kind of intuitive. Even if it was feasible there's zero evidence to make that claim.

What antecedents are those? Were early tribal religions that worshiped the sun and sacrificed humans connected to god in someway?

zero evidence because it's not the sort of thing that would leave a lot of evidence, or have people done a lot of research and come up with nothing?

There isn't any archaeological evidence that psychedelics drugs were ever a normal part of the human diet or that the supposed affects it would have on early human societies would occur in the first place.

It's an idea he had when he was high. Not real science. You certainly wouldn't want to base the foundation of a religion on it.

Nobody takes me as a joke. My beliefs are founded in reason, science, and most importantly, in the Word of God.

You were sold lies, and you believed them. You were told that given enough time, anything could happen. You were told that explosions create order. You were told that your ancestors and a monkey's are one and the same.

You were lied to, by the best, by the devil himself, but there's no reason to continue walking in darkness when there exists light.

Do you have any proof of that?

There was worship of the one God even in tribal times. Heck, the Gobeckli Tempe was probably about worship of the one God.

Because there was no death in the Creation until Adam sinned, that's why. No death, no 200,000 years of humans producing an infinite number of humans.

Which is of course what any human population calculator would tell you, if you bothered to check.

1 mating pair 50,000 years ago easily produces an infinite number of human beings.

3 mating pairs right after the flood produces 7 billion people on earth today at known population growth rates.

Adam was the first human and sinned before other humans existed, so no.

They die, vanish into dust. The salvation offered by Christ is eternal life through God.

wtf are you babbling about?

Well yeah. I think the vast majority of Christians believe it is not a literal story, at least Christians living in the developed world.

Given that it has been completely disproven and all that.

youtube.com/watch?v=wwuEL-32Tbc

Most Christians take the bible more seriously than you do.

Is that a surprise to you?

By all accounts, Monotheism is relatively new when it comes to the entire history of human religion. At best, in very early tribal times, you probably had a few henotheists.

As for the tempe, come the fuck on. That's like saying stonehenge was probably used to worship Yahweh. We have no fucking clue what exactly was worshiped.

You have a video that Jesus did not raise from the dead, and is not God?

kek

Christians, ladies and gentlemen.

Bullshit. Adam and Eve walked in the Garden of Eden in the beginning of the world with the one true God.

Yes, thank you.

Alright thanks

I'm quite sure with the limitless number of religions of tribal times, there was monotheism than shunned worship of other gods.

Stonehenge was a burial ground.

You can't get past Genesis 1:1.

That's how slow off the line you are. You're not even in the race.

Are all orthodox as ill informed as you are? Or are you the one eyed king in the land of the blind?

Well there's nothing to support that but ok. Probability makes it within the realm of possibility but the details still seem to fall apart. Since the real message of God was apparently not delivered until, at the very earliest, the Jews stopped being henotheists.

>There isn't any archaeological evidence that psychedelics drugs were ever a normal part of the human diet
it doesn't have to be a normal part of their diet, and you don't have to limit yourself to archaeological evidence. just look at primitive societies that survived into the modern age and most of them have rights of passage that involve psychoactive plants. if some of these sunstances are messing with your dna in a way we don't yet understand then their effects are going to get passed on and amplified over generations of use.

i'm not saying what we believe now is definitely right, just that i don't really see it as incompatible with the bible.

I'm probably the least informed of them, desu

Then you know neither position well.

I'll save you some time. Theistic evolution is also bogus.

And yet, the most assertive.

There's a saying about that.

Judaism was never henotheistic. Henotheism means to worship one God, but to accept the worship of lessor ones as valid and fine.

And look, the imbeciles are arriving. That's great.

As Plato said, wisdom is realizing the limits to one's knowledge. The wiser you are, the less you overestimate your knowledge.

>something something if we stretch the facts and sneak in a proposition of a yet unknown way in which drugs alter DNA my shit theory can be preserved

This is really bad science, user.

Learn to samefag, cancer. And lurk more. Always lurk more.

This is simply wrong, unless you are playing funny word games.

Yes, pretend to be a Christian and rely on Plato for living.

Orthodoxy in a nutshell.

Yeah and that's what the Hebrews were. I suppose "Jews" was the wrong term to use since yeah, they are complete monotheists. What came before Judaism was not, if you value archaeological evidence anyway and the question remains. Why did God wait so long to deliver the truth?

They literally were until the babylonian captivity

He did not. He told Adam the truth Day Six.

Why did Cain's people fall away?
Why did Canaan's people fall away?
Why did Ham's people fall away?

That would surprise me. That view, at least where I live (North Florida), is probably only a large minority. Most people really do think there were two people who really listened to a talking snake.

>snake

lrn2read

i never claimed it was science. it's just an interesting idea that not a lot of research has been done on. i think it's probably what happened though.

Yes, the hyperboreans were trying to mimick the lost religion of their angelic ancestors.

>fringe Heretic

People still respect Origen, especially in the east. The Catholic Catechism cites him on a few occasions

>no thinking person

I'm sure you're intellect is superior to Saint Thomas Aquinas, a once in a centuries mind.

Henotheism is like Platonism. It's not, "There are supernatural beings besides God", because if it were, then Islam, Judaism and Christianity are all still henotheistic, as they all believe in angels.

Negative

Not sure how talking about the definition of wisdom in this context is Christian theology, and I don't see why Plato can't be employed outside of Christian theology.

>People still respect Origen

People still respect heretics.

>Negative
nice rebuttal

Yes, wisdom is never mentioned in the bible at all.

Not a lot of research has been done on it because its junk and the premises are bad right at the starting line. You admitted yourself that there's no reason to believe drugs can alter DNA. This is when most people would abandon the theory or file it into the "possible but extremely unlikely" folder instead of justifying a pretty integral theological belief with it.

It is, but it's used as a feminine form of the Word. I'm talking about the more conventional use, just like the more convention use of "word" is different from the Word.

The Hebrew Bible is pretty consistent in denouncing worship of any god but YHWH

Yeah and the Torah was altered during this time and only gained its high authority after the captivity

I grew up Christian, it is only American protestants who are bible literalists these days, it was specifically taught as a metaphorical story at my Christian school.

That's because you live in America.

kek

Greeks, everyone.

How did you become a Christian?

>only gained its high authority after the captivity
Why do you think this?

How do you mean?

Read Proverbs Chapters 8 and 9

Because that's the general consensus among historians

Which is meaningless without a substantial argument.

gotquestions.org/Bible-snakes.html

(I mean that you have no idea how a person becomes a Christian; that means that you are not a Christian; that means your claim that you are a Christian is false; and your claim to not believe the bible is true. But not coming from a Christian.)

I have, many times.

Rely on your country, language and church to sneak you into heaven.

Oh, wait, you're already doing that.

well i would file it in the "possible and extremely likely" folder and would suggest that one of the main reasons there isn't a lot of research being done on it is because it sounds too much like a reasonable explanation of the tree of knowledge of good and evil story, and with most scientists today being edgy atheists who hate god they of course aren't going to be interested in anything that lends credence to the bible.

Do snakes have legs to lose?

Does the description of this reptilian being ring any other bells with you? Enchanter? Crafty? Deceptive?

I'm a bit confused by what you are on about. I was born and raised a Christian and I was Christined as a child and Confirmed as a near adult after taking the requisite classes.

There was no moment I 'became' a Christian after not being one unless you mean when I was very young and couldn't even understand or you are referring to one of those two ceremonies.