What was Orwells goal with 1984? Was it really a warning or satire?

A computer basically is a telescreen. And because of modern society you more or less have to have internet.

I'm amazed he was able to see that one coming, if a bit inaccurately.

Well there is one nation that is frightningly close to his dystopian nightmare.

North Korea is simply too blantantly dystopian to be just like 1984.

Ingsoc for the overwhelming majority of the population was actually very subtle.

the modern world is basically a combination of Brave New World and 1984. Real life wasn't contrived enough to go all carrot or all stick

>Cell phones have been banned
This is not true, Cell phones in NK are quite common and have become a big fashion symbol, one of the few ways to express wealth and status. There is no true internet but they can use them for some things.

Fair enough, but would say it is about 3/4 Brave New World and 1/4 1984

Nice propaganda you've got there mr. reddit.

a Computer is basically a library not a Tele

no

it was crazy how he basically predicted the cultural revolution with the spies

Hello NSA.

Nice try Kim.

it was a warning by taking his argument to its most extreme.

He was right that national governments would strive for more social control, to introduce new rhetoric, redefining old terms to fit new situations, but the methods explained in 1984 are taken to such an extreme level that it's appalling and sends the message to the reader much more clearly than the subtle and slow changes that take place in reality.

Best example I can think of is China's Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution. both were propaganda pieces pitched by Beijing to be wondrous changes bring to bring Utopia to the people and whatnot, but what happened was introducing new ideas, new social structures, and forced evictions/relocations that resulted in better governmental control of the general population.

like I said, much more subtle and slow changes have taken place almost everywhere else, but generally goes under the general population's nose to where people just don't notice it right away.

one can argue about how the patriot act was a seminal event in that direction, but I generally only see those turn into a shitshow.

>its interesting to note his optimistic leftist views slowly transition into bitter cynicism of any government.

So he got smarter as he got older. got it

It was more than political, it was about the potential for technology and psychology to be used to completely eliminate the possibility of revolution thereby dooming humanity to dictatorship forever.

Prophesy.

If you enjoyed 1984 you'll love Fahrenheit 451. Its crazy that it was written in the 1950's.

>Ingsoc for the overwhelming majority of the population was actually very subtle.
You what?

F451 is honestly much better than 1984. 1984's ending was retarded imo, and Orwell tried too hard to be edgy with all the sex stuff and making that one chick out to be a slut. Meanwhile, Bradbury showed a moral side to a character rebelling against authority.

>anglo socialist preaching about his special flavour of socialism
Just like Mosley. Hayek was right about the brits

go away Turkroach

His goal was to air out his cynicism and poor understanding of political theory.

Winston giving into to big brother at the end? Orwell's own choice of choosing to give names of reds to the British government. The depressing thought of tyranny winning forever, his own poor state of health at the time and the inevitable death. Having an affair with a young girl who's into a bunch of kinky shit despite portraying herself as a prude? Babies first fetish.

However other people will ascribe a lot more meaning to it because they can't stop from eating out of the ideological trash can.

>muh totalitarianism
>muh horseshoe theory
>muh government acts based solely on some nebulous concept of power
>muh liberalism is true
>muh poor understanding of Bolshevik and fascist thought

Anyway here's some smug anime grill

>30 posts before a communist starts shitposting
impressive for Veeky Forums desu

>2016
>Still trying communism

I'm going to enjoy crushing the capitalists

Why still believe in 1984 Orwellian meme when our world is heading toward to the Brave New World?

because both are happening

Why are warning sign and satire mutually exclusive?

it's funny when conservatives use orwell to bash socialism because orwell was a self-dentified democratic socialist.

You didn't read 1984 (nor Brave New World, likely), the proles of 1984 live a life very similar to those in BNW.

What? No. Proles in 1984 live and in BNW live are vastly difference. In 1984, their life is restricted by the regime. While in BNW, the have some degree of freedom like in modern world but they are too distracted with entertainment and meme to use it properly. And the said meme made them to choose to restrict their own 'freedom' because they believe that said 'freedom' is not necessary and maybe dangerous. Basically, 1984 is similar to N. Korea while BNW is similar to modern western country with great SJW influence or even better, a democratic muslim country with sharia law like Malaysia.

>What was Orwells goal
The author is dead.

>Was [1984] really a warning or satire?

It is

A job and a litre of beer ain't restriction.

>and Orwell tried too hard to be edgy with all the sex stuff and making that one chick out to be a slut.
Why, it was the ultimate form of rebellion in 1984

I've always liked how so much of his work is direct criticism of "leftists" while he remained a dedicated socialist to his last days

He trolled the shit out of the British intelligentsia and they still hate him for it

Proles are fairly free in 1984 but their life is just football beer and manual labour

If you read the book it becomes clear the proles are kept controlled by the lottery, liquor, and whores.

They waste all their breath arguing about trivial bullshit and never think about why their conditions are so poor or how things could be better.

Their only access to information is through party channels, which are completely manufactured bullshit. For instance it seems they learn about history through the cinema which changes what actually happened for political reasons. Sound familiar?

The only people for whom the party is a major part of life is the actual members. Orwell is very specific about showing the "privileged" outer part members to be actually more controlled than the other groups

this. One of the main points of the novel is that only Outer Party members are in real danger from Big Brother because they're smart enough to commit thoughtcrime but not privileged enough to get away with it

>not Singapore

Top kek

Orwell literally fought fascists and reds in Spain you cuck. His war diary was taken and he barely escaped death (the leader of his unit was not so loudly).

Giving the names of possible Bolsheviks to his country's intelligence service was not something he cared about.

Except that the CPGB's proletarian periphery was far more likely to produce socialism than a lion and unicorn. Giving data to the sipo is dilettante shit, and Orwell detested that in others.

The Brits voted in a Labour that was still very much socialist after the war, and it took Thatcher to erase the remnants.

Orwell didn't want socialism forced he wanted it accepted. He wasn't against violence though.

Also
>proletarian periphery

You mean decayed aristocrats and intellectuals who supported a foreign behemoth responsible for the deaths of millions of its *own* people.

Yeah, Orwell hated them and didn't give a shit about selling them out to the *freely elected and socialist government.* Moreover, he wasn't precisely informing he was giving advice. Half of it was information like "harmless but homosexual." His dossier included out of reach people like Henry Wallace (former VPOTUS). By most accounts he was entirely right in the information he handed over by the way.

t. didn't read 1984

>You mean decayed aristocrats and intellectuals who supported a foreign behemoth responsible for the deaths of millions of its *own* people.

No, I don't mean them. I mean the shop & union level organisation that drove the CPGB's working class membership, and the workers who supported the CPGB based on the industrial struggle of its shop activists.

Labour in power kept the wage, mate. There was nothing of Catalonia in the NHS.

Thoughts?

Really it's just a well written anti-soviet propaganda piece. The parallels are too obvious not to notice.

>In no way are we near the levels of 1984

We're much, much closer than you think.

>harmless but homosexual

So all of Veeky Forums?

It was based in part on the politics of the Axis regimes and as such can be read as satire, but it was much more strongly informed by the predictions of a guy called James Burnham. Orwell wrote a lot of book reviews, and around the time he was doing preliminary work on 1984 he read and reviewed a book called The Managerial Revolution (or something like that) by Burnham. Burnham predicted, among other things you'll no doubt recognise, the emergence of three global super-states locked in perpetual war.

All of Orwell's works are available online for free, so if you want to read the relevant essays, they are:
James Burnham's Managerial Revolution
Further Thoughts on Burnham [or something like that]
You and the Atomic Bomb [this one is quite famous as it's where Orwell coined the expression "cold war"]

t. fanatical Orwell devotee

>By most accounts he was entirely right in the information he handed over by the way.

Such as it even was. He identified exactly one person as "Probably a Soviet agent" and you'll never guess what...

And you have to remember (not saying you don't, just getting it out there) that this was just recommendations for who shouldn't be given access to a certain department. It's not like it was some industry-wide or nation-wide blacklist.

You can ignore 1984, it's just a hamfisted expansion of his essay: "Politics and the English Language"

orwell.ru/library/essays/politics/english/e_polit/

Probably a closer fraction, like 3/5 and 2/5, and I think some nations are more one than the other, but basically yeah.

>you can ignore 1984, here's an essay which overlaps with a minor and coincidentally very well-known theme of 1984

If you remember the book you'll rember that the MC says that the proles are basically kept in line by alcohol, whores, and sports, and that they are blissfully unaware of how much the government controls them.

fuck is wrong with her knees

The modern world isn't those words though, or at least not intentionally, and not to the same level.

While the government spies on us it isn't out of a power trip it genuinely doesn't want maniacs blowing shit up (though i doubt they mind knowing what we're up to), and while the majority are consumed by a culture of cheap entertainment and hedonism, there's nothing to stop anyone becoming an intellectual or pursuing the life they really want, except money.

Western modern life is good, we're quite free, we're very comfortable, we have a nice balance, and people need to complain less.

>Western modern life is good, we're quite free, we're very comfortable, we have a nice balance
and if anyone speaks out against certain govenrment policies, they'll be arrested and shamed for thoughtcrime

>people need to complain less.

Mostly agree, but I'd prefer if people complained more about certain other things that waaah waaah limited surveillance of voluntary use of technology is just like 1984 wah waaah. Just complaining less would indeed be an improvement, though.

Can you show me some people who've been arrested for speaking out against certain government policies? Like, exclusively for that, not some fuckwit wandering around DC with a loaded shotgun because muh second amendment or whatever.

multiple people in Germany and England have been arrested for saying bad things about their governments and the EU taking in refugees

>and if anyone speaks out against certain govenrment policies, they'll be arrested and shamed for thoughtcrime
When? Never
Screaming niggers are fucking cook retards will, which i dont agree with, but i can see how

Dude No im English and that has never happened. Quit talking shit. If people were being arrested for talking out against the EU taking refugees then
1. Half the country would be in prison
2. Half our political parties would be in prison
3. We wouldnt be having a fucking EU referendum
4. Kill yourself

OK, link me to a few reports about these?

ctvnews.ca/world/british-man-arrested-after-posting-anti-muslim-tweets-1.2830619

>The tweets have been deleted. Doyle has not been charged.

[_] arrested for criticising government policies

C'mon bro, I live here, I need to know what's going to get me arrested and shit. Help a brother out.

There was also the Polish truck driver who was charged for getting angry at refugees for slipping into his truck and causing $80,000 in damages.

>arrested and not charged isn't arrested

>Was it really a warning
No
>or satire?
more of a satire than a warning, orwell absolutley despised Stalin and Stalinists (he actually ratted them (and homosexuals who he claimed were stalinists out in britain, like a cunt...) its more like a massive "fuck you" to stailnism

That was Animal Farm, bro. See

>abusing minorities is speaking out against government policies

I called a chick fat on youtube earlier, am I a political renegade yet? Should I go on the lam?

both are...

>dude imma write the same book twice lol

No.

>Western modern life is good, we're quite free, we're very comfortable, we have a nice balance
Until it all crumbles under the violent upheavals that are inevitably going to occur when the entire global climate system collapses beneath our feet.

It'll be a fun ride until that point, though.

things which will never happen

>clearly clickbait article
>report says he was only called in for questioning, and that the guy was a fucking cunt
>hasn't been charged because being a cunt is still legal

Talk to me again when David Icke gets arrested for suggesting that Cameron is a space lizard. Because that's what Singapore regularly does to anyone who DARES to criticize them. As in, straight up charge, lock in jail and fucking drive the accused crazy and then dare to say the guy was in the wrong and is clearly crazy.

DAE TV IS FOR PLEBS LOL?

>>/reddit/

U wot no member of the inner party commits crime, they are all so brainwashed to even attempt to.

that's the proles isn't it? Inner Party members occasionally commit thought crimes but get away with it because they're allowed to turn their telescreen off

>in no way are we near the levels of 1984
We a closer than at any other time in history, including when he wrote the book.

Also, do you think someone in the end-game of authoritarian dystopia would say any different?

The proles don't even have telescreens in their homes, because they're too uneducated to present that kind of threat, IIRC.

It's somewhat ambiguous whether or not Inner Party members are too brainwashed to use their relative freedom for anything fun. The interpretation that they are (and thus that O'Brien is simply acting on special dispensation as part of his sting) is reasonable, though.

Well, you're saying different, so that's a little self-refuting, don't you think?

I wonder what Orwell would have to say bout his book becoming an ideological manifesto against the left

They may turn them off, but it's just to give confidence to future inner party members wich are outer party members that realise something fishy is going on.
Remember that thoughtcrime is applied when something you believe is "wrong". O'Brien didn't believe in anything he told to William

1984 is a satire of how the military-industrial complex degrades into extreme authoritarian states. It was a desperate warning. He never preaches an alternative, he barely had a coherent idea of one.

Maybe in Euroland

>william
Who's william?

t. didn't read BNW

Dumb SAGposter.

Nah, he's right. Winston constantly reflects on how the proles are more or less unmanaged and more liberated than Party members. Other guy seriously seems to have a Sparknotes-level grasp on the text.

Fucksake, read Darkness at Noon before you open your shitegob.