Why is Vietnam usually lumped with Cambodia and Thailand instead of with China?

Why is Vietnam usually lumped with Cambodia and Thailand instead of with China?

Vietnam's culture is far more similar to China's than that of Southeast Asia.

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nam_tiến
leminhkhai.wordpress.com/2013/02/21/the-han-style-and-power-dressing-in-nineteenth-century-vietnam/
leminhkhai.wordpress.com/2011/04/11/the-nguyễn-dynasty’s-miếu-lịch-dại-dế-vương/
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

Because of its location, retard.

It fucking borders China

Because of fucking European Geographers
>LOLOLOL ITS BETWEEN INDIA & CHINA, LETS' CALL IT INDOCHINA :DDDD

Because it's easier to just say that all nations in South East Asia are the same instead of studying their history and culture.

So does Burma and Laos, butt head.

An attempt by Chinese nationalists to bury Vietnam's true history as the originator of Asian culture.

Estonia borders Russia but you wouldn't say that Estonia is the same as Russia. On the other hand Maroco and Pakistan are thousands of miles away but they have similar cultures. It doesn't matter how far away countries are.

while Vietnamese culture has a lot of things that come from Chinese culture that is only because China has had a history of constantly invading and ruling Vietnam. Which leads to the second part of the culture. Vietnamese have been invaded and have had bad relations with China for so long that they HATE the Chinese. They think Chinese are subhumans and I can attest albeit only with anecdotes of Vietnamese speaking ill of the Chinese when I was there. They hate them so much they'd rather be considered more like the Thai or Cambodians than the Chinese. So while a lot of things come from Chinese culture, it is part of the Vietnamese culture to shy away from other things.

Hell, even their alphabet was Chinese characters until the French introduced the alphabet they have today. And even then they accepted it wholeheartedly after the French left.

I would say Estonian and Russian culture have more in common than Morrocco and Pakistan.

This is true. I once had a Viet guy (in Canada) get really upset at me for bringing up that they used to use Chinese characters. He refused to believe it and started yelling that it never happened.

>He refused to believe it and started yelling that it never happened.
Nice made up story.

This is the correct answer.

Most of the region actually does have a lot of Indian influence though. Vietnam is exceptional because it was influenced much more from China, except for the Southern and Central parts under Cham rule.

Arr rook same

Wouldn't surprise me desu, Vietnamese are insanely proud and defensive about their culture and history. The Chinese domination is a particular sore spot for them.

I met exactly one Vietnamese guy in my life who wasn't an uber-nationalist and he had the best weed in San Diego.

>They hate them so much they'd rather be considered more like the Thai or Cambodians than the Chinese. So while a lot of things come from Chinese culture, it is part of the Vietnamese culture to shy away from other things.
False.

Historically Vietnam adopted the Chinese view of "anything not influenced by China = Barbaric." They're essentially an East Asian country in Southeast Asia. The same discourse on barbarism applied by China to Vietnam Vietnam used to the likes of the Khmer, the Lao, the Thai & the Cham. All Barbarians to the eyes of Vietnam, who worship strange Hindu gods and walk around naked.

Hell, like China's Southern Expansion, Vietnam had their own version
>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nam_tiến

Yes, Vietnam has an animosity towards the Chinese. But for the longest time all that they considered as high culture & civilization was that of the Chinks. Today they are still at odds versus the Lao and the Cambodians.

>But for the longest time all that they considered as high culture & civilization was that of the Chinks.
doesn't mean that they hated them and wanted to remove China whenever they invaded Vietnam

>Cambodia Vietnam bad relations
You're correct about laos, but Cambodia is a US ally and is wary of the Chinese more so than the Vietnamese. Plus Laos is nothing more than a speedbump for the Vietnamese. Their real enemy is China, always has been. Which is why they are so adamant about not being seen as having any ties be it cultural or political.

I don't deny Chinese influence, im saying that part of Vietnamese culture is also that of hating the Chinas with a passion. Go to Hanoi and scream that Vietnamese culture looks up to Chinese culture and see how long your organs remain in your body.

user asked why Vietnamese culture is lumped with other SEA cultures. It is because despite the similarities, Vietnamese would rather be lumped with the Cambodians than the Chinks

>tfw qt vietnamese gf
>tfw she wears a qt ao dai
>tfw she cleans for me

if you ever get a Chinese neighbor watch out for the punji stick traps she'll be placing on their lawn.

You're focused on the 20th century while I was talking of the *rest* of Vietnamese history.

19th century European-style nationalism is the cause of many asshurts today more than historic rivalries. I mean the Viets fucking defeated the Qing in battle in the 1700's and STILL agreed to be a "tributary state" to maintain friendly relations with the Qingz. They did the same with the Ming after the even more worse 4th Chinese Domination of Vietnam. When the Ming retreated, they treated Chinese POW's with dignity, while a few years later, were gleefully massacring the Cham.

Yeah I am talking about modern Vietnamese culture, and what you say is true.

>doesn't mean that they hated them and wanted to remove China whenever they invaded Vietnam
Historically there wasn't a united Vietnamese front,the elites of the Red River Delta supported the Ming invasion.

>I don't deny Chinese influence, im saying that part of Vietnamese culture is also that of hating the Chinas with a passion.
Recent phenomenon,historical Vietnamese viewed themselves as more Chinese than the Chinese.

The Vietnamese venerated the sage kings,had no issue with rulers of Chinese origin and Sinicized hill tribes.

except she's half chinese ;-)

Chinese who lived in VN are often used as scapegoats when there was disaster or war. Like when Quang Trung massacred Chinese people after he won the siege or Le Duan banish them when Sino-VNmese war happens, you could say they the Viets treat chinese similar to how European treat the Jews pre Hitler era.

You would be wrong.

>Historically there wasn't a united Vietnamese front,the elites of the Red River Delta supported the Ming invasion.

You forget those who supported Chinese have bad reputation and are viewed with disdain by Vietnamese people . in history of Vietnam, people call them the traitors.

>Recent phenomenon,historical Vietnamese viewed themselves as more Chinese than the Chinese.

Proclaim of Victory (by Nguyen Trai)

1) In the name of Heaven, I (King Leâ Lôïi) hold the belief that compassion and
righteousness are intended to bring peace and when troops are dispatched to protect
the population, their primary mission is to suppress tyranny.
2) As to Ñam Viet, a country of great culture with a long tradition, its mountains
and rivers are lawfully delineated.
3) In addition, our customs are different from those in the North.
4) For hundreds of years, the dynasties of Triệu, Đinh, Lý and Trần had firmly
established their independence.
5) Like the Han, Tang, Song and Yuan of China they proudly governed their lands.
6) Although their strength, their weakness and ours at times differed, men of noble
character in our country were never in short supply.
7) As a result, Liu Kung, too greedy, was defeated; Zhao Jie, too ambitious,
was killed;

So, NO, Vietnamese never view themselve as Chinese though

>You forget those who supported Chinese have bad reputation and are viewed with disdain by Vietnamese people . in history of Vietnam, people call them the traitors.
The fact that Red River Elites identified with and supported the Ming should be more than enough proof.

The veneration the Hung dynasty dates to the Le dynasty due to their semi barbarian origin.

>So, NO, Vietnamese never view themselve as Chinese though
After the Qing conquest, the Joseon and Nguyen dynasties viewed themselves as successors to the Chinese civilization(Eastern Zhou).

The Nguyen even viewed themselves as 漢 and venerated Chinese figures.

leminhkhai.wordpress.com/2013/02/21/the-han-style-and-power-dressing-in-nineteenth-century-vietnam/

leminhkhai.wordpress.com/2011/04/11/the-nguyễn-dynasty’s-miếu-lịch-dại-dế-vương/

>you're correct about laos, but Cambodia is a US ally and is wary of the Chinese more so than the Vietnamese.

Objectively false. Vietnamese hating is THE biggest national past time in Cambodia and the country has pretty good relations to China right now. Anti Vietnamese riots are growing in Cambodia and can erupt anytime to a pogrom.The common enemy is Vietnam.

>The fact that Red River Elites identified with and supported the Ming should be more than enough proof.

Not a matter, there were always traitors in a country, Shi Jingtang even seceded Yan province to Liaos and call their king his foster father.

You would be an idiot

>Not a matter, there were always traitors in a country, Shi Jingtang even seceded Yan province to Liaos and call their king his foster father.
There was a clear cultural distinction between the Red River Elites(Kinh) and Le Loi's Trai(Muong) supporters.

The equivalent would be pre Tang Fujianese/Cantonese uniting China.

North Korea borders Russia.

French's shit self obsessed classification.

Ignorant westerners

Same reason they lump north africa with sub saharan africa, or Pakistan with the middle east, or Xinxiang and Mongolia with east asia

Ignorance

>On the other hand Maroco and Pakistan are thousands of miles away but they have similar cultures.

Completely false.

People uses east asia for Japan, Korea and China and Vietnam was nothing or little to do with the two first ones. So it gets into south-east asia. That's literally it.

Estonia and Russia are massively more similar than Pakistan and Morocco.

Sorry to burst your bubble, Mikk.

Nah, Vietnamese-Japanese contact dates back to prehistory. During the 16th and 17th centuries, trade networks were so thick that Japanese villages had popped up in every Vietnamese port.

I'm Chinese and I have not met a single Vietnamese person who treated me poorly and I've known a ton thanks to growing up in Southern California. Even my dealer (DUDE WEED LMAO) is a chill ass Vietnamese guy. I even dated a Vietnamese girl who thought that China and Korea are the same country even after I explained it to her 500 times, most of these people are probably just ignorant as hell.

>Maroco and Pakistan are thousands of miles away but they have similar cultures.

No they don't butthead.

>b-but they be all brown people and muslim!

There was portuguese ports in India and both cultures have nothing to do. I mean, I know is a more extreme example, but still. Contact =/= cultural affinity.

Westernized viets are a little better than Vietnam viets. There's also a HUGE Chinese diaspora amongst the viets in western countries.

We bleached them.

Talk to me in Vietnam, not in Cali faggot. See what happens.

How is that even possible, I'd figure she'd be mindful about learning at least a little bit about geography on account of everyone looking at everyone in Indochina as the same ethnic variety

That girl is westernized probably knows nothing about her heritage.

North Vietnam is very much culturally Chinese.

South Vietnam is much more ASEAN and what we would call "Vietnamese" here in America.

>had bad relations with China for so long that they HATE the Chinese. They think Chinese are subhumans

This is bullshit. Nice "anecdotes" faggot.

>Cambodia is a US ally

Into the trash your post goes.

>Vietnamese never view themselve as Chinese though

This is objectively wrong.

Edgy

What, you're going to beat me up for being Chinese? I would love to go to Vietnam some day and eat some good pho or bun, we should be friends.

She was born in Vietnam, actually. She looked a lot different than the Vietnamese-American girls here. Lighter/nice skin, and had more of a demure Asian style rather than the Latina look that most Viet girls go for.

posting pictures of vietnamese qt in ao dai

Anytime I see a post claiming "the X think X about Z people" I roll my eyes

Yes, that's it. From what "I've heard" from my friend's brothers girlfriend & the Internet I have deduced the opinions of millions.

yuh my girlfriend is vietnamese and her whole family is vietnamese

like, a huge amount of vietnamese are part chinese. it's like being suprised that people from france and germany would intermarry. and they don't hate each other. it's all just memes. there are some angers but people memify it

...

Then you're a monumental retard.

It's a bit confusing mainly because the Chinese you refer to are actually Cantonese. Vietnamese in China number around ~10,000 which is practically nothing. Most Chinese consider Vietnam to be just another ASEAN country.

Chinese people are as ignorant of Vietnam as the Koreans and Japanese are which is sad considering the shared cultural basis.

What the hell? I can't believe people are even contesting that Eastern Europeans have more in common than two countries 10,000 km apart related by nothing but religion (and the differences between Islam in Morocco and Islam in Pakistan are not subtle)
Are you stoned?

A lot of girls are dumb.

Small reference pools

Same reason folks think Turks are anything like the forest/steppe tribes of Siberia

>hurr but der both mooslum!
Right, and Estonia and Russia are both Christian.

What's your point?

It's butthurt eastern europeans.

We get it you're not russians, soviets or whatever. Some of you (estonians included) are not even slav, we already know. Just don't embarrass yourself in your attempts to tell it to the world.

China isn't something you should aspire to be similar to. tribalist, morally broken people, incapable of general empathy

>China has existed as People's Republic of China for 4000 years

Are you retarded?

Chinese are pretty nice guys.

Maybe some individuals you've met. But all their pop culture, decisions, hierarchies, government and values indicate that they indeed are not.
where do you think you are, some kinda history board?

>But all their pop culture, decisions, hierarchies, government and values indicate that they indeed are not.
Are you implying that if you base your perception of Americans on the US government you would come out thinking that Americans are nice people?

Because they are, yet the US government is fucking evil.

>incapable of general empathy

Did your tard wrangler write this for you?

Can someone explain how this thread is Veeky Forums related when I can't get a North Korea thread to stay up for more than 5 minutes without someone saying "hurr durr north korea is still around check the 25 yr rule" and getting the thread taken down.

>butthurt baltics are THIS irrational

Was people talking about the history and culture of north korea or were they sharing dank kim jong un memes?

Because he does it for free.

If you had more of a general thread about Korea it might make more sense, I think.

that's Thailand not Vietnam dipshit

>Why is Vietnam usually lumped with Cambodia and Thailand instead of with China?

Damn, now I do feel bad for Vietbros. It's like making fun of Norwegians for German scat porn.

sorry.

still a qt tho. pls post more vietnamese qts

>vietnamese qt

Damn, that Agent Orange worked a treat.

...

May sound dumb, but because of food. Most people who can't find Vietnam on a map, still know where there's a Vietnamese restaurant.

Might be they see similar foods, know they are from similar areas, and just make that association.

in the PRC tho...

/pol/ is that way

But these girls look way better than Planet of the Apes over here

No one said they didn't

thats the point

I'm sorry to disappoint you guys, but they're all ugly.

Whats that? I can't hear you over all that shit taste

>t. Pham Tram Phuc Duc

>that jew nose on the left

Looks like Hiroshim00t.

>jews

>liking Nork-tier bitches

Come on, now.

Man, they look really Thai. And really old, what the fuck? Asian genetics obviously failed in SE Asia.

>Nork-tier
I assume you mean DPRK bitches?

they ain't so bad when they don't hide behind 300lbs of plastic and cosmetic surgeries user

That's a scene from a movie idiot

JEWS ARE CUTE

CUTE!!!

Norks are GOAT tier.

whatever, its militarized chicks

this, I mean just compare them to South Koreans, its thrash, K-pop has ruined and warped our perception of korean women.

>comapre then to South Koreans
May as well compare them to a Barbie doll

Not to mention Norks have L E G S from all the marching.