Was there ever a shittier "empire" in history?

Was there ever a shittier "empire" in history?

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What makes it the shittiest?

Hwan empire was pretty puny
>weak at it's height, comically weak at its lowest
>incredibly poor

It would if it wasnt for a certain German confederacy

>weak at it's height
No, actually. The Empire was the most powerful state in the world during it's zenith.

>comically weak at its lowest
That's for every declining empire

>incredibly poor

They were poor relative to Europe, but not to the rest of the world, especially those desert shitholes they conquered.

Besides the reign of one Sultan, it was either Mongol-style brutal despotism or decaying shithole where government barely controlled their land.
Excluding Diabolic Barbarian Anarchy of course

Dude are you taking the memes here really this serious ?
Until the reign of suleiman they rekt everything in their path in one or more goes if needed but they always came back.
Also it was one of the richest countries till the end of suleiman's reign.
There are even mentions of foreign dignitaries like French ambassadors etc that the peasants were healthy looking.
There is a reason that a revolution like the French one didn't happen in the ottoman empire while it did in france which was one of the most fertile countries in europe.

>rekt everything
That's not my point. Point is they were Mongol-tier.
>revolution
Because it was brutal Islamic despotism and even elites were barely literate. Revolution occurs when there's conscious and politically active middle class.
No such thing in OE.
Shoo shoo filthy Turk.

butthurt bulgarian detected

Looks like our war still continue through internet with irrelevant semi-civilizations. I'd point out your false accusations but as a Turk I must say, you can suck my balls.

There was nothing shitty about the Roman Empire fampai

>population of Balkans literally declines by 2/3rds from late 15th to 18th century
>waaah butthurt lies OE was great look at this guy saying good thing about something here
Are you aware OE is literally the only empire where every former subject shits on it?
Even Arabs who are Muslim and enjoyed stability shit on it.
It was a shitty state that never outgrew it's originally nomadic character.

>Are you aware OE is literally the only empire where every former subject shits on it?
British Empire
Russian Empire
Spanish Empire
Empire of Japan
Mongol Empire

That was easy.

Yep, totally a butt-hurt Bulgarian. Or Serb.

Byzantine Empire

Finnush empire, while large, it's overrated

Nope.
Nope.
Nope.
Maybe.
Yes, and OE was just a bit evolved Mongol empire.
Of course I'm butthurt man, our region would be far far better if Ottomans never existed.
>b-but you had wars
So did every region of Europe. Balkans didn't really lag behind Europe at the time they were conquered.

>richest and most cultured part of Europe for most of it's history
That's not even a bait.

macedonian empire

fell apart immediately after its establishing leader died

the byzantine empire was only weak when it was no longer an actual empire.

>implying nigger slavs could ever run a successful state
Ottomans should've finished you off

>Slavs >Better

So you have no point besides >Slavs?
Cool.

>Of course I'm butthurt man, our region would be far far better if Ottomans never existed.

To be fair, you would probably be some sort of Greek right now if not for the Ottomans.

South Slavs are by far the most niggery people I've ever seen. They've produced nothing of value and are a general blight on Europe

We didn't become Greeks for centuries before that and ERE was a lot more powerful in those times.
And who cares? Anything was better than Muslim rule. Cultural poisoning that happened is still felt today in Balkans.

I'm pretty sure there are worse people and I have no idea why do you believe shitting on South Slavs will make OE look better.
I just opened this thread because I notice shitload of you keep pestering this board with Erdogan-approved version of history.
Ottoman Empire was the most disgusting creation in European history, besides Crimean Khanate and Mongol empire.
But I see a lot of gullible Western tools who buy the "Ottoman tolerance" bullshit.

I just like insulting you eternally butthurt niggers whenever I get the chance

>le butthurt
Explain me why I shouldn't be butthurt about an entity that set us back several centuries and ruined us with inferior culture?

Because you're niggers who wouldn't have gotten any farther anyway

Because it won't accomplish anything moving forward?

Yeah man, I get it. It sucks being the historic loser. Being Irish, or Native American, or Carthaginian (If there was any left).

At the same time, you can hardly blame the Ottomans either.
>the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.

Nothing indicates that though. We were no different from rest of Europe before Ottoman conquest.
So? Why shouldn't I be butthurt?

>">weak at it's height"
>Literally takes half of Europe to stop them from raping the Heretical Germanic Conglomerate

>"comically weak at its lowest"
>Implying every empire isn't comically weak before they fall

But nothing indicates that we wouldn't get any further. We were on similar level with the rest of Europe at that time.
>historic loser
I'm not really upset that much about that, I'm simply upset by rabid Turkish propaganda about how great OE was, which is a pure lie even from the standpoint of average Muslim, let alone a Christian who was legally inferior.
So we don't end up historic losers again. Because I see a lot of shilling and Erdogan going mad lately.
Do you understand?

>Handily defeat a serious invasion by Britain and France
>comically weak

They weren't great but they were hardly "comically weak"

South Slavs were fucking niggers for the entirety of history. People like Greeks have every right to bitch about the Ottoman Empire on the count that it annihilated their actual accomplishments and relevant countries.

But Serbs? lmao, the fact that there's only one Serb famous for anything other than chimping out and starting cataclysmic wars speaks volumes.

What exactly was wrong with life in the Ottoman Empire and what exactly was so great about life in independent European countries?

Because Slavs are niggers you fucking nigger
It's not hard to understand

Only on one front. They got BTFO in the Levant and Mesopotamia, Gallipoli was more of an example of the bong-frog alliance being incompetent than Ottoman strength.

Systematic opression of Christian population, economic and cultural backwardness, inferior Islamic culture leaving a mark on population here.

no

turks are ones who injected retard dna into greeks and serbs. Without Ottomans serbs would still be an intact slavic culture like Russia or Czech etc.

True, but it was still a serious campaign against the greatest military powers on earth, and the ottomans won decisively. I'm not saying OE was amazing, just that it hardly seems fair to call them comically weak when they were capable of pulling off a military victory like that only a few years before collapse

Their military was untrained and if the Europeans didn't dismantle them they would have dismantled on their own due to Arab revolts. They lost a war to Italians and then a year later they lost another war to a bunch of Balkan countries, losing Edirne to the Bulgarians, and they only gained it back due to a 4-way rape of Bulgaria the next year.

One stroke of luck doesn't make them any less comically weak, they could barely do anything.

>Systematic opression of the Christian population
Are you implying that religious minorities outside of rare exceptions like Poland and a handful of German states had it better off?

>economic and cultural backwardness
Prior to the advent of capitalism the Ottoman Empire was one of the richest regions of the planet. With the generalized estimate of wealth in west-Asia in 1700 being higher than that of Spain.

>le inferior Islamic culture
Muslims have produced more culture than South Slavs have produced retarded wars.

lmao
in christian Europe there was systematic oppression of Jews, Pagans, and whoever-wasn't-majority-christian, "economic and cultural backwardsness" is blatantly wrong because A. the Ottoman empire had the strongest economy in the world (except for perhaps china) for CENTURIES and B. because "cultural backwardness" is a relative term and only applies to the last 150 years of the empire's existence. Again, "infierior Islamic culture" only applies to the last 150-200 years, other than that, people had more freedoms, more education, and better infrastructure than the rest of Europe combined

>Ottoman Empire
>worst
>not the H R E
Are you even trying?

ottoman military history isnt only 19th century you retard, how about this one time where they swallow europe all the way to vienna while resisting multiple holy leagues,crusades and ass backwards balkan "empires" at the same time

to get a feel of how strong the ottomans were at their height, consider this, Charles V was the most powerful European monarch since Charlemagne. He was Holy Roman Emperor, Archduke of Austria, King of Spain, Duke of Burgundy (which included Belgium and Netherlands), King of Sicily, King of Naples, Duke of Milan. His younger brother was King of Bohemia and Hungary.

Picture related: the lands he and his younger brother controlled in Europe. Not pictured: America. Not pictured: the Holy Roman Empire.

Anyway, this is strong, isn't it?
The Ottoman Empire was stronger than Charles V.

How come though? It is because of good commanders? Manpower? Resources?

Muhammad (pbuh)

Hey let me introduce you to the 'Swedish Empire'

Charles' empire was overextended and decentralized as hell in comparison when you consider his American and pacific colonies

They are great. Much more tolerant than your average muslim nowadays, greatest military of its age, stimulated cultural exchange, introduced coffee to Europe, had the world's greatest city as its capital and finally ended the Eastern "Roman" "Empire"

You can't post penises on a blue board.

>I didn't read the whole conversation: The Post

Didn't they BTFO literally everyone until Peter the great?

Turns out Byzantine style bureaucracy actually works pretty good.

Also, Suleiman hit the jackpot. His father left him a huge treasure so he could bruteforce his budget.

suleiman cucked charles V hard with him supporting the protestant princes

>>However, the Protestant powers in the Imperial Diet often voted against money for his Turkish wars, as many Protestants saw the Muslim advance as a counterweight to the Catholic powers.

They were pretty strong during their height. Able to go toe-to-toe with multiple european big guys at the same time. Knew their shit. Too much religion and imperialist planted nationalism killed it.

At its height which is around the 1550's it controlled all the lands between hungary,mesopotamia and algeria.
It had a strong professional standing army which was one of the first in europe since the romans. It was fucking rich because it controlled trade to asia.

Until the battle of lepanto in the 1570's they more or less controlled the mediterrenean for which they had beat the italian city states and spanish repeatedly on naval battles and the austrians had to pay a yearly tribute to them till like 1600. Also there was a general fear in europe that the turks would come and conquer them thats how fearsome their reputation were at the time. Of course the constant warring and weak sultans took a toll on the empire and a heavy decline set in from 1700 and onwards.

>most powerful state
Those slave armies didn't work out too well for them against a legitimate force.

Mexican "Empire"

the jannisaries were pretty good idea actually, that is until they started exerting more powers in the ottoman court and cockblocked every attempts at reforming the army

Do Syrians consider themselves "Greeks"?
I think you should move forward, instead of blaming other people for your country's current downfalls like other countries do. It's almost been a century since the Ottomans collapsed, other countries have been independent less long and have had more success.

Yes, they were militaristic and expansionist. A far cry from the Sweden of today.

Sweden was the little empire that could

These "slaves" were trained professionals that BTFO everyone until late in the 1680s when technology made them obsolete. These "slaves" also exerted a very large amount of control over the Ottoman Bureaucracy and basically led to its downfall.

If not for the Arab migrations/conquests they would consider themselves Greeks from the Sea all the way to Kurdistan. Thats also true for: northern (ie "relevant" Egypt), the costal levant, the northern levant, most of Trukey except deep in Cappadocia and where Pontus once existed (that last part has to do with the SeljukTurkish migration but mostly later Turkic migrations which is only superficially related to the Ottoman empire and were a trickle for centuries after the mongols invasions.

Central African empire is objectively the worst and most meme empire

There is a Dutch saying. 'better Turkish than Catholic'.

>balkan
>ancient greece
>roman
>byzans
>ottoman
How does it feel to be enslaved through history of modern mankind?

Turks are the most hilarious people. Every Greek, Armenian or Slav I meet becomes uncontrollably, violently angry whenever the Turks are brought up.

Every time it's crying about genocide or quoting some off hand comment from a Turkiah politician. Being a historical loser must suck so hard. So sick of hearing these sob stories.

Yes. Trebizond.

It's definitely WE WUZ syndrome, especially for Greeks. They probably think they'd still be relevant had it not been for Turks, but they probably would have declined. Same with Armenians and Slavs to a lesser extent. I wonder if there are Persians that feel this way.

Yes, but they did so by lending money, Sweden has always wanted to be like the major europeans(like most weaker kingdoms). After the wars was lost sweden had no king and a dept no king wanted, then a frenchman came and literally bought the country by selling a island in caribean. Bernadotte, a french general.

Also the swedish king was in exile in the ottoman empire, the turks helped Sweden against russia year 1700.

Since this is a discussion about greece and Turkey, and this being a mongolian woodworking forum, have some Hetalia.

youtube.com/watch?v=UgChgsf7iwU

youtube.com/watch?v=AcQPsQE2qZE

That it's a meme to hate on Turks because some of them live in Europe and Europeans can't control their genocidal rage when seeing a brown person, so they rewrite history.

>basically led to its downfall.

the downfall was part of a natural process for Empires, as well as the Ottomans trying to kill off anyone that didn't say they were Ottoman before being an ethnic group or religious group.

The Ottomans fell because they fucked up, and had a string of shitty sultans that tried to kill their way into stability.

No they fell because the Janisaries and Imams resisted restructuring the government and instituting modern reforms. That being said the Jannisary system was part of the Ottomans success before it was par of their downfall.

lets see some of those sweet balkan "empires"

>Nope.
>Nope.
>Nope.
>Maybe.
>Yes, and OE was just a bit evolved Mongol empire.
Look, the world is bigger than your Balkan shithole, but there are people and whole regions who do hate those Empires.

In fact you got it all wrong, nobody hates the Mongol Empire anymore because it is too fucking remote in the past and the butthurt parties literally got their revenge on the Mongols.

>you should move forward, instead of blaming other people for your country's current downfalls like other countries do. It's almost been a century since the Ottomans collapsed, other countries have been independent less long and have had more success.

this

Persians circlejerk their own culture, also most invaders picked up Persian traditions and language during their rule

I personally have no problem with it as an "empire," as it truly follows the definition. Many ethnicities under one banner.

>people had more freedoms
Any piece of evidence to support that?
>more education
Ok, tell me about some famous ottoman school or university from the Balkans.
>Or and better infrastructure than the rest of Europe combined
Again, can you point to roads or some shit?
Seriously, the Romans and Austro-Hungarians left roads, walls, castles, public works, etc.
Ottomans left a bunch of mosques and that's all.

Love how the roaches only argument about defending their empire isn't "we brought civilisation", or "we brought stability" or "look at all this infrastructure we left behind", it's "we were good warmongers".
Pic related. And no, i'm not a slav or greek, just find turks hilarious.

then you are a K*rd or Armenian?

>we brought stability

they did though

might makes right

>"There exists another history, more absurd [ridicule] than the history of Rome since the time of Tacitus: it is the history of Byzantium. This worthless collection contains nothing but declamations and miracles. It is a disgrace to the human mind."

lmao

The claims that it didn't contribute to "technological and philosophical advancement" are true, but they don't mean much. Rome was never known for its advancements either, most of what the had was just borrowed from the Greeks, just as the Turks borrowed from the Byzantines.

Their empire really wasn't worse than any other historical empire. Sure, there were atrocities, but often times their rule was more tolerant than those they conquered.

Their empire was more or less doomed to collapse, though, just like the Austrian one. The rise of nationalism made the idea of an empire dominated several distinct nationalities and religions impossible. The Turkish reputation as being genocidal or evil stems from their collapse. The Turkish government was desperate to keep their clay, so they expelled and/or genocided many of the Greeks, Kurds, Armenians, and others from their land as a way to remove their claims on it. The idea was that if there weren't any, say, Greeks in Turkey then that land couldn't be given to Greece.


Basically, don't believe the /pol/ bullshit about "muh evil mudslime empire", they weren't any worse than most European powers.

Protestantism confirmed Islamic plot to undermine Europe

To put in perspective

> empire was more or less doomed to collapse
Do people really believe in it? Seems like easy to say in hindsight but they could survive in one way or another.

A single south slav, Tesla, contributed more to humanity than all the filthy t*rkroaches who have ever lived.

Mmmh really makes you think

/meme/

Are you sure about that, senpai? When was the first balkan univerity created? I don't remember bulgarians having a fucking university in the late 1300's, before the conquering, meanwhile in the west there were already hundrets of them.
Just an example that could apply on a lot of other aspects as well.

Mehmet pls.

At least explain it wasn't meant literally, but more of an expression to show our disdain of the papists.

Couldnt get shittier than the khazars