How would you rate this?

>

kys

the what what what?

Holy Roman Empire you egotistical frog. Yes the way it exists in your lifetime might not be any sort of actual holy Roman entity, but that doesn't mean it never was, and besides to dismiss an entire state based on literal meme arguments is retarded. God I hate you so much.

oh shit dude sorry

Only £20 on amazon uk.

HOLY
>the kaiser was sanctioned by the pope
>the papal states were a part of the reich for a long time
>protector of christendom

ROMAN
>it included northern italy
>it included rome and the papal states
>it continued the Roman tradition

EMPIRE/REICH
>it's literally an overarching structure of smaller units
>independents units, but sworn to a common ruler

stop this meme
they changed it to Holy Roman Reich of the German NAtion when they lost Italy
Reich =/= Empire
it's a poor translation

Norway is a Kingdom, which in Norwegian is "kognerike" = "king reich"
we don't translate it to Norwegian King Empire

>Protestantism
>continuing the roman tradition
pick one you mongoloid

nice ad hominem
reported

I want to read it for comfy Habsburg adventures desu

>christianity
>continuing the Roman tradition

>Holy
Maybe at it's conception, I'll give you that.
>Roman
No, just no. What is this Roman tradition that you speak of?
Yes it included northern Italy at some point, but throughout its entire history it was mostly located in Germania
>Empire
Again, No. Yes the official ruler of the HRE was called emperor, but I challenge you to name one other empire in history where the ruler/rulers had so little influence over his/their "subjects".

All you need to know is the Holy Roman Empire's history and you basically get Europe's history in a nutshell. A common pleb reading this would be sufficiently knowledgeable of Europe's history. Hell reading this alone could probably give you a 4 on the AP European History exam alone.

Is it available in audiobook?
If not are there any audiobooks on the HRE that are good?

> :^)

I've read the author's previous book and I really doubt you'll be able to follow this book in audio form.

germanboo detected, ptobably from /pol/
>holy
Like all christians kingdoms, need the sanction from the pope. Then protestantism happened aka anticatholic, so not holy.

>roman
Neither the capital was in the italic peninsula, neither latin was the official language(not even close), and they were not even influencial in the mediterranean.

>Empire
Yeah sure, a clusterfuck of mictostates "obeying" a king. Almost as Empire as the actual European Union.

>defending simple facts
>germanboo
water tight logic there, my swarthy mediterranean friend

>?

The first part of your post was true, it was Holy Roman and an Empire, but then it was AIDS.
How was the HRE Protestant?

...

Its 30 bucks for the hard cover on amazon

Good read, the HRE has a dynamic and influential history. Even near the end, when it was more of a confederation, it was a powerful player on the world stage.

>then it was AIDS
how so? I explained that the German words used by the HRE themselves was REICH, not EMPIRE. In Germanic languages, 'reich' does not perfectly translate to 'empire', and I gave an example from Norwegian.

I'm Norwegian, and we, for example, when speaking of national security will say 'rikets sikkerhet", which literally translates to 'the reich's security'. It would be retarded to translate it to 'empire' in that instance. 'Realm' is a better word.

generic germanic confederation

The book is very dense and not a chronological history, so it's definitely not a casual read. The gist of it is that the Empire shouldn't be viewed as a failed nation state. The idea that it was 'weak' is rejected as superficial. Instead, power relations became more impersonal and institutionalized as the Empire evolved from a medieval kingdom to a somewhat modern state with a fixed election process, an imperial diet and not one, but two supreme courts.
Despite that, the book isn't exactly revisionist. It doesn't deny that the HRE couldn't match the military might of its centralized neighbors. But it shows how the Empire worked for a thousand years before it stopped working, and that's pretty damn impressive.

>Yeah sure, a clusterfuck of mictostates "obeying" a king.
Literally what an empire is you autist

a 4 out of what? how high a score is that

i just bought it. thx op. let u know in like a year or so.

cuck?

>tfw you realize >H>R>E meme was forced for months to promote this book
>tfw there are PR companies specializing on marketing goods on Veeky Forums

are you saying it's not a good book?

I have no idea. I kinda liked his previous book, yet I was lost halfway through, it's to hard to follow all these names, places and events.

>reading pop history

5 is the best. A 3 or above is considered good by most colleges.

What do you consider pop history? I find it hard to believe this is flying off the shelves into normie hands.

name a better book(s) than faggot, i bet you can't.

>reading
The book has sold more audiobook copies than actual print copies
>pop
There is nothing popular about literature on the Holy Roman Empire. Go and ask Stacy and Chad on facebook how many written works on the Holy Roman Empire they've read and I gaurantee you the answer will be 0
>history
Peter H. Wilson is the pen name of Penny H. Wilson, changing her name so that the HRE research community would take her opinion seriously. It's HER STORY.

>There is nothing popular about literature on the Holy Roman Empire. Go and ask Stacy and Chad on facebook how many written works on the Holy Roman Empire they've read and I gaurantee you the answer will be 0

then answer would probably be them asking what the HRE is.

and people try to say that
>
>
>
isn't a forced meme.

how did this meme start

this smug piece of shit right here.

why'd he say it? and is he right?

youtube.com/watch?v=m3c8WHFPhrE
Here's a little interview with the author

He was right. He was also so annoying that Frederich the Great banned him from RL shitposting in Prussia.

>"Holy" fought the pope, created their own popes when they disagreed with them. even sacked Rome or threatened to, not sure.
>"Roman" The heartland of the Empire was always Germany
>"Empire" Totally decentralised the "Emperor" had very little power over his vassals.

>Peter H. Wilson is the pen name of Penny H. Wilson

Wat? Is this some new meme? Because it isn't true.

Just a reminder that the Holy Roman Empire, traditional and dysfunctional as it was, lasted a thousand years.

Countries based on the ideas of Voltaire, on "reason", either last a few months, such as Jacobin France, or last a few decades before collapsing in terrible ways, such as the Soviet Union.

>>it continued the Roman tradition
the only Roman tradition it continued was being at war with itself

I agree that it wasn't remotely 'Roman' after they lost territory in northern Italy
but in the beginning, Rome and the Pope was connected with HRE

Holy German/Deutsche Empire/Reich would be better after that

I pirated it, do the same.

>holy
what could be more holy than getting crowned by the pope himself?
>roman
the nation was called holy roman empire of the german nation it also protected rome
>Empire
>Yeah sure, a clusterfuck of mictostates "obeying" a king. Almost as Empire as the actual European Union.
what is feudalism?

>the pope
>holy

the fuck, i thought i wouldn't get a reply a minute after. I'm from /pol/ so that's my favorite word, that's all. I can't believe I really bought the damn book either. I don't even like the middle ages apart from the fighting techniques and armor.

I guess since if you learn about the HRE you learn about Europe and how it came to be so it's a grudging read through.

Funny, because I thought France was the one that influenced how the middle ages would play out the most.

well he has a book on the 30 years war

"memearrow"

what is this

bump

Seconding this, I bought Europe's Tragedy last week and it's fucking great. THe going is slow though.

Don't forget that 3 of the 7 electors were bishops, making it a bit more holy

>HRE
>Protestant

The emperor was a catholic monarch until the end you nerd

>
" "
______

fuck you

HREEEEEEEEEEE

>they changed it to Holy Roman Reich of the German NAtion when they lost Italy
So they lost Rome, yet "empire" was the part of the name they dropped? Was the >>> trans-Roman or something?

Stay mad you illegitimate fuck

>then answer would probably be them asking what the HRE is
"Uh - you mean like Julius Caesar and stuff?"

It simply needs to be called The Empire, which is what a lot of western european contemporaries thought of it as because for much of Euro history until Napoleon there could only be one "Emperor"

Thanks. This was great :)

This.

Reading it a bit kind of reminded me of The Pursuit of Glory (maybe because Wilson's books, between this and Europe's Tragedy, are structured in the same sort of way?) though I don't think I've enjoyed either as much as that one. Maybe because Blanning's a much better writer than Wilson who can be kind of dry.

I don't really think I'd consider an autistic examination of the machinations, national identities, religious identities and such of the Holy Roman Empire "pop history". There really needs to be a term for something inbetween what you'd get from an academic journal and what you'd get out of pop history (which I'd consider to be more people like Tom Holland, Roger Crowley, John Julius Norwich and the like).

Writers like Chris Wickham or Gordon S. Wood shouldn't really under the "pop" umbrella IMO.

so I just read that Charlemagne had the title "Imperator Romanorum"

when did the HRE emperors use "Kaiser"?

Carolingian Emperors were not the same as the HRE, they were two different polities really in the same legacy as Western Successor states. HRE and the term Kaiser was probably more used once Otto was crowned Emperor as well as being the King of Germany, which meant his German subjects would have thought of him as Kaiser.

ok, that makes sense
I think you hit the nail on the head
it's interesting stuff, I wonder what the state of the Frankish language was at that point of Cahrlemagne
would they (Frankish subjects, and the other Germanic tribes) have used the Latin title for Charlemagne?

Well, considering the education program set out by Charlemagne and the fact that many of his Frankish subjects were gradually assimilating with the Latin subjects they may have been calling him Imperator, or some later ancestor of the word Emperor.