Often i find that almost all of our behaviour and reasoning has an built in axiom that we inherited or adopted

Often i find that almost all of our behaviour and reasoning has an built in axiom that we inherited or adopted.


Now for a better tomorrow, what axioms should we identify and discard that we still cling to?
What axioms have historically been discarded and let to progress and prosperity??

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It's less about discarding axioms and more about social cohesion around those axioms.

An axiom won't work if only half of people agree to implement it while the other half resort to sabotage.

An ideology isn't justified purely by theory or practice alone, it needs the right environment to flourish before it can be adequately evaluated.

I vote to discard the axiom that the universe is deterministic.

So basically, any notion that we are the product of our inheritance or adopted values more than our own free will in the here and now.

This frees us from the subterfuge that our destiny is predetermined by an alignment out of our control (which is akin to astrology), and allows us free expression; fueling our desires to create and innovate, hindered only by the physical restrictions that outline our life; not any presupposition of belief, altheistic or religious (although this is predominantly the former).

"Is there not a certain satisfaction that there are set before us certain limitations in life, so that its conclusion it may appear as a work of art?" - Albert Einstein

*physical limitations
I meant. I misquoted.

>Quoting the determinist Einstein at the end of a rant against determinism
>implying that one cannot strive for one's goals while simultaneously believing the universe is deterministic

We don't know what is going to happen, but it's going to happen. We will do whatever we will do, but we should still strive for the right thing. Determinism doesn't hinder anyone who really thinks about it.

>implying you can choose whether or not you strive towards something

Right. I don't choose. I am driven by my brain chemistry, my society, etc.

If I second guess myself or change my """choice""" at the last minute, that was a deterministic process, too.

I am a determinist, but I think the fact that we don't know the future necessitates dwelling on ethical dilemmas and "striving" for the right "choice."

Striving is a cultural meme I've adopted, as is choice, but they're useful on a daily basis where we don't know the future, preordained by the processes of physics and neurochemistry though it may be.

Einstein wasn't a determinist. In fact he was vehemently against all the quantum mechanics voodoo that is a blight to science today.

"God does not play dice with the universe."

STOP USING THE WORD AXIOM LIKE THIS YOU FUCKING POP MATH FAGGOTS.

He also made fundemantel contributions to the field and at the end he accepted the theory because he was a scientist

can you really walk up to the president with a mask on?

do you actually have a reason to counter the Himalayan mountain range of evidence contradicting you or are you dismissing it to feel better about yourself?

Growing up is about accepting tough truths, not living in lala land in order to "be free from subversion" lmfao. You're behavior is mediated by neural processes that are completely (probabilistically) determined. Get over it, grow the fuck up lol

>countless discoveries in neuroscience and physics discounting ridiculous notions of free will is akin to astrology

religiousfag detected

People say this often, yet never post anything to back it up. I'm inclined to believe Einstein supporting it is an urban legend, seeing as he was a staunch advocate of notion that we are a part of the Universe, not a product of it. In fact, he said he would not on his deathbed consider otherwise when asked about what would determine his life as a failure or success.


I feel like the anecdotal positions to support what is inherently obvious by the building of character as you suffer for the rectifying karma and growing in grace; like a tree that strengthens its roots when the wind blows, is about as arbitrary as why you both fail to punctuate the ends of your sentences and talk like toddlers. Maybe you are ruled by neurological impulses because that's what you believe. Bio-physiological feedback and all that.

Now get out. Grown ups are talking.

>grownups are talking
>yet to say anything of worth
>disagrees with overwhelming findings of over a dozen scientific and philosophical disciplines
>provides absolutely no actual counter argument except for "its obvious hurr de hurr don't you feel it???"

you're a pariah and killing yourself would legitimately be a net gain for humanity

The photoelectric effect and Bose-Einstein condensate are all quantum mechanical phenomena.

"God does not play dice" was his way of saying the universe was deterministic. See pic related.

Quantum mechanics was actually a refutation to earlier deterministic physical models. The idea behind quantum mechanics, in short, is that the universe has probability collapsing into actuality as a core part of its nature. The idea of superposition reintroduced the idea of choice, for many, though though others still hold that the perceived randomness of superposition is still ultimately deterministic.

Quantum mechanics isn't "voodoo," it's just counterintuitive and little understood, just like relativity was when Einstein introduced it. People in 1905 were like "What? Space is curved? Hogwash!"

give it up lol this guys legitimately missing a few screws

>I feel like the anecdotal positions to support what is inherently obvious by the building of character as you suffer for the rectifying karma and growing in grace; like a tree that strengthens its roots when the wind blows, is about as arbitrary as why you both fail to punctuate the ends of your sentences and talk like toddlers. Maybe you are ruled by neurological impulses because that's what you believe. Bio-physiological feedback and all that.

probably the funniest thing I've read all week lmfao

Will read more on this, thanks.

Isn't chance deterministic too if the universe runs by causal laws? If the universe can collapse into a state of hit-and-miss at any moment, I read that as him saying "there has to be some higher order buffering it" that is a fundamental part of us.

Yes, I agree with that.

I don't know about actual physicists who have studied Quantum Mechanics for years feel though.

What you're saying reminds me of a scene in the wank-fest film "Waking Life."

youtube.com/watch?v=veqkUUOlLLE

Oh wait, that is what Einstein is purportedly trying to say here.

In which case, I disagree and feel he's flat out wrong on this.

Watch out I accidentally linked the DVD commentary version apparently. Better to just read the subtitles.

Deterministic or not, you still have free will within the scope of your own consciousness, and must suffer the consequences of your actions.

Determinism only affects the omniscient. For everyone else, the "illusion" of free will is indeed the waking reality.

Cool. Thanks for that. I read the subs anyways since my computer has no sound. I think that video aligns with my views, but from a drastically different angle.

As you get into thinking about higher dimensions and quantum entanglement, I posit you can't ignore the idea of free will because those casual determinations begin to reciprocally loop. Like how when you dream or are dozing off and start hearing voices, your mind communicates with the subconscious and its glimpse into the future (call it instinct or whatever) relevant to you within the next day or so. Some people are more attuned to this than others, but that invariably is connected to how much they believe they are.

For example, if time and space are nil, when observed from higher dimensions, then we are who we are because of what we have been; thereby we can choose to act or not act on the subconscious inclinations of our brain. How free you are to do that, i.e. your perception of free will is relative to how attuned you are to the subconcious mind.

I don't even believe there is a determinism for the Omniscient. The Bible even says "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."

To me, we're all on a one-way ski trolley up a mountain. We can jump off and ski down the slope again. Or not. Either way, God knows we will make it to the top someday because the number of trolleys is finite and so we know to climb into one eventually, but He can't know when or how we will.

Only when one's will is aligned with its Maker, does God know the end thereof. On both a micro or macroscopic scale, physical or temporal. As Cayce often put it, we're not done reincarnating, until every corpuscle and atom, knows God as Lord.

>the Himalayan mountain range of evidence
Every word you utter, all language, is created by yourself. Your "evidence" of anything in "reality" is born directly from you. If you knew yourself at all, you wouldn't speak such drivel, at least not in that tone which so clearly exposes your ignorance.

>but He can't know when or how we will.
I thought He was omniscient. Isn't that core to the debate about free will in modern Christianity?

Granted, if you drop that property it does rather solve the problem.

This might be outside of the Molinistic response you may be expecting, but I believe Oswald Chambers once said, "God cares not what you think or say, until He utters it from your lips."

In this, the context being that, what "God does not care" about is not of God. The way Cayce puts it, our own minds may be a sub-set of this. Our minds, are only a part of God when they're in action because before that, there is a cosmic mind where our free will is dormant until we are sentient enough to explore it... So Oswald was right in a sense.

>(Q) as illustrated by my hazy idea of the super-conscious mind in relation to subconscious - [cosmic conscious and sensuous mind. Will you try to explain this so as to make it clearer?]
(A) (Interrupting) Then as this: Super-conscious - that which takes that position in the physical plane, and in the spiritual plane assuming that position of subconscious. Cosmic being the physical condition of body, for that which the individual has MADE is its cosmic force, or cosmic body, with subconscious as the conscious mind, superconscious as the subconscious mind - viewed from the physical plane - he has this now.
>(Q) COSMIC FACULTY of MIND - the faculty of Spirit Energy manifesting in phenomenized form -
(A) (Interrupting) Gain this point here, concerning cosmic forces. COSMIC FORCES [are] THAT BUILDED BY THE ENTITY IN ITS PASSAGE THROUGH [the] PHYSICAL PLANES. Hence the urges come to individuals from whence they know not, the abhorrence individuals have for conditions and they know not, though others coming from the same parent stock in physical forces desire just the opposite, see? For we may find from same parent stock, same social relations, same conditions existent in each life in its development to the stage where the consciousness is awakened of cosmic forces (puberty), then we find one with the desire for alcoholic stimulants, the other with the desire of spiritual stimulants, see?

all-ez.com/cosmic.htm

People take free will too seriously. The problem of free will is only a problem within religion.

See I see that you are unsatisfied and therefore you quit seeking, because you are afraid of finding much that you do not feel spiritually or mentally ready to confront.

Just, let go and watch.