"Poverty is not socialism. To be rich is glorious."

"Poverty is not socialism. To be rich is glorious."

Can someone explain to me how the Chinese still believe they are communist? Like they study Marx and Lenin and Mao in school and then they somehow think that the teachings of those men are compatible with the actual Chinese government system?

It's just official. Off the books they know it isn't.

Nobody's just raising stink because it's china's best break so far after 2 shitty centuries. Let the government pretend it is what it is.

Turns out that Authoritarian One-Party State Capitalism works and nobody cares about them styling red and gommienism anywhere.

Maoism was a weird hybrid of Marxist-Leninism and Ruism. It never really drove out the old Chinese folk belief structures, which is why state leaders became strange saint- or small-god-like household figures.

Mao's death left a power vacuum. Chinese officials filled it by configuring the state economy to function like the capitalist and fascist economies of WWI/II, and politically to superficially resemble a republic, but designed to produce "stuff" for foreign buyers, not local growth (which is why you hear stuff like "China needs to grow its GDP by 2% per annum in order to outpace recession). This left the situation even weirder, being a Marxist-Leninist-Ruist-Maoist-Capital-Republic-like... thing... which is "communist" because it resembles Soviet governmental structures, Ruism and Maoism because you're never getting the white off rice, and capitalist-republics because that's how the state economy behaves (but only at the bottom and top levels: capitalist economy for the low class and the elite business class, but pseudo-communism for the working through bureaucratic classes).

So the question is really just probing into a nightmare of complex political and social networks and rearrangements. It's like how American politicians "believe whole-heartedly in the free market" while actively disrupting the free market. They've redefined the terms of discussion so the discussion itself is impenetrable and inarguable to anyone from outside their party, requiring that you agree with them before you can discuss with them.

Really interesting. I'll have to take a closer look at China.

China hadn't had a good government since like 1614, it was about time that something started working, so people don't give a shit that they talk about gommunism, as long as it works.

Not exactly true. There wasn't a power vacuum after Mao died. He had a successor that was supported by the party (only because Mao chose him) but he wasn't a very effective leader due to a lack of tutorship.
Much of the existing government was not supportive of the changes and still believed in Mao's Cultural Revolution and viewed anyone trying to do something different [because it wasn't working] as being bourgeoisie. Deng (pictured in OP) pretty much always pushed for an economic system that actually worked and made China stronger which ended up being a more market based economy. His insistence on doing things his way got him temporarily kicked out of the party twice and the push back from the existing government members made the whole thing an uphill battle. Deng was smart though and was able to build up the changes piece by piece. Prove that this works by using a small experiment, prove the next thing works, etc. That helped him build support as it showed other members of the government that he knew what he was doing. He also knew, generally, who to trust with carrying out his ideas and how to get them into positions of power.

>but designed to produce "stuff" for foreign buyers, not local growth (which is why you hear stuff like "China needs to grow its GDP by 2% per annum in order to outpace recession).

This doesn't logically work.

>China hasn't had good government since 1614

Wew lad

Even in the Soviet Union, the goal was to get rich fast. The Soviets didn't even go that far in terms of radical redistribution and the like. The plan was very much to build up a rich, powerful country with a strong urban proletariat first, as a necessary step towards communism.

This was always the Soviet Model: Planned, state managed capitalism to achieve a sufficient standard of living.

On those terms, how's the CCP doing?

Increasing Urban Population? Check.
Increasing Industrial Workforce? Check.
Increasing Industrial Output? Fucking check.

Wanna trip to the countryside m8?

Well the PRC government since the late 70's has been decent compared to 1614-1978.

>want a trip to the vastly wealthier, more secure, and stable countryside of 2016 China in comparison to 1976 China

China's government since 1978 has been the best since the early Qing IMO.

>Dog with Chinese characteristics.

>Research with Japanese characteristics

>Peace keeping with American characteristics.

Been to the countryside in Hebei. Air pollution is bad(better than some cities), peasants can be a little uncouth, but friendly and safe. Lodging is okay, not third world tier. None of that /pol/ "Chinese are soulless backstabbers" meme.

>mfw thought that top photo was in the late fifites or something.
>mfw Ninties.

Jesus Christ.

>That agony on his face.

Are gooks naturally psychopathic and emotionally stunted?

The nineties were a long time ago, grandpa.

I was born in Decemeber 93. Don't call me grandpa ever again, Pops.

But does he catch mice?

How can you say they aren't if they claim to be? They're just riding out capitalism until they're strong enough to enforce communism.

An Marxist knows Marxism will occur no matter what - so every mass genocide is actually still working towards coming closer to the goal of a global communist state.

Maybe, if you're under 20.

i like the top pic more. It looks comfy

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Good post

It was not.

the power of socialist endeavors.

What about capitalist endeavours? Pizza is always worth it.

What's funny is they don't act nearly as symbolically communist anymore either.

Daily reminder that free market mechanisms are allowed in communist states.

Most Americans and Eastern Europeans are retarded when it comes to communism.

This is bait

PRC's government since Deng and the ROC 1928-1937 was the best government since 1614.

The ROC absolutely sucked, bro.

Why are retards in this thread thinking that I was saying that the PRC's government wasn't a good government? I said that up until Deng-era PRC, China hadn't had a good government since the Ming fell, but it finally got a new one with Deng

I don't understand why you deliberately misquoted that user.

It works because they are a modernizing economy built on cheap labor.

Literally every country, regardless of political system, that had those features grew rapidly. China's government is working only so far as it can keep the mask of societal progress up, to keep the country stable from the peasants realizing they are being sold out, and that business will move to India as soon as China's middle class tries to develop in a significant way.

They have such allegiance to the larger Japanese society that its difficult to really make comparisons. Emotions don't really mean the same thing they do to Westerners.

It did.

But it was better than 1850-1927.

Should've specified

>Literally every country, regardless of political system, that had those features grew rapidly.

Retards that think all that matters is wage difference are the reason there's so many misconceptions with trade and economic development.

China's average wage is $8,000 per person.
That's nearly 4 times India's.

Yet China's economy continues to grow.
Why?

Because PRODUCTIVITY: the output per worker, is nearly 5 times higher in China than India.

You are correct that the worker has been getting screwed though. China's worker productivity is worth about $10,000 a year. Yet they only get paid about $8,000.
Why? Because of artificially low interest rates and an undervalued currency. Much like Japan or Korea, these are like hidden taxes on the average worker.
America recently has the same issue.

>Should've specified
He did specify you illiterate retard. Why are you on a history board if you can't read?

>Why are retards in this thread thinking that I was saying that the PRC's government wasn't a good government?
Because of a certain Chinese shill pulling the wool over the eyes of retarded Veeky Forums posters.
>China hadn't had a good government since like 1614
>China hasn't had good government since 1614

This guy was anti-Hitler. His policies saved millions of lives.

His post was confusing. But I see how it gramatically correct.

>Chinese shill
?

it's*

What remains of China's communism is:

>one party state
>nationalism which varies from benign to fairly rabid

BUT, most importantly, the anti-liberal (I use this in classical terms) attitude to indoctrination and control of the people.

You think American tertiary education is bad, by the time chinese students reach uni they've received years of indoctrination supporting the communist party. University isn't about freedom of intellectual exploration or satiating curiosity, it is about the quasi-spiritual indoctrination of the student's psyche into accepting their polity for what it is.

>he doesnt know that the western educational system isnt pure indoctrination either

Perhaps but its not nearly as overt (whether this is good/bad remains up to you).

I mean all education is some degree of indoctrination but the scariest is that which China subjects its children. Second worst is probably American campuses tho.

they're trying to spread it internationally now

baka.com.au/nsw/behind-confucius-classrooms-the-chinese-government-agency-teaching-nsw-school-students-20160525-gp3882.html

fucking hell

replace "baka" with "s m h"

In the end Mao was right. The Party was littered with capitalist roaders and the Cultural Revolution was necessary to keep China communist.

Their only mistake was not killing more people. Deng Xiaoping and Zhou Enlai should have died.

kek baka.com.au

Only question is, should he have saved it?

>by the time chinese students reach uni they've received years of indoctrination supporting the communist party.

Uhh no

Now that I think about it, I agree with you.

>Maoist policies continue
>China is irrelevant on the world stage

>state capitalist policies are implemented, along side a brand new, spiffy repression apparatus
>China is able to spread their legalist tyranny all over the world

>tyranny

implying

>implying more Maoist China wouldn't have led to the same shit we have in North Korea today with a nuclear armed maniac

>implying poor, insane countries aren't simpler to deal with than rich, evil ones

>implying simpler to deal with = easier to deal with

Wow now I agree with u now!

Maoism will return. Bo Xilai was extremely popular in Chongqing thanks to his Neo-Maoist policies.

The current regime buys time while the economy is growing, but the first economic crisis that hits China will trigger another revolution, and since the only revolutionary terminology the Chinese know is Maoist, what do you think will happen?

I was assuming they'd revert directly to warring states or ROC.

>Chongqing
Wow that's racist

To be fair, we have never seen a state capitalist country long term. People speculate that Hitler's economy would have gone down the drain after a while, but it didn't last long enough for us to find out.

>What is South Korea

The problem with China is calcification; they need to privatize some big SOEs because theyre inefficient and shit but when their directors are members of the CCP it gets complicated

They have been working on making SOE's profitable (which they'd had some success at).

I really doubt they are going to get rid of them any time soon especially if they are deemed to be strategically valuable.

You're assuming that if the PRC were to shit the bed that they'd be allowed to revolt in a vacuum.

The first time around China was an insignificant backwater """"""""country"""""""" and all of the important countries were fucking around with their own problems (The US cutting the Kuomintang's funding and giving it to Mao because of commie journalists doesn't count).

If China were to go full implosion, what makes you think Russia, Iran, Europe, and the Saudis wouldn't love to jump on that shit? We've already seen that the US federal government is willing to bring """""""Democracy""""""" to any Middle Eastern nation steps out of line, what do you think will happen when the world's factory goes tits up? And that's just the US. The Saudi's have been trying for years to bring Chinese Islam under their corporate umbrella. I doubt Russia would just sit idly by, and neither would Japan or South Korea.

The US isn't dumb enough to get involved directly in China.

Last time this was a thing, there was heavy military assistance to China, but we weren't about to put our asses on the line for the nationalist Chinese.

>intentionally misquote a poster to make some ham-fisted point about how great the CCP is
>not a shill

I'd really doubt the Chinese would revolt against the CCP Government.

Even if things were bad, they have an efficient propaganda system and would crack down on dissent like they have done in the past.

And also it would have to be a terrible depression... And if they were in a depression we'd be dragged down too so we'd be facing our own set of problems.

That said... Is the USA better able to deal with mass revolt or are the Chinese?

Lol, not true. I know tons of Chinese and they all aren't making any illusions about the party or communism. They know it's a deeply corrupt cut-troath faction ( and ironically use anti-corruption campaigns to be corrupt ) and that they're only at the mercy of the growth they're helping to foster.
These people know they're in an anomaly of a system. The only thing they are is ethnocentric as fuck. Which is what they've always been and will be. It doesn't do them any harm to be so.

At least Chinese know the reality of their own situation.
We in the West are far more indoctrinated because everyone agrees on the basic tennets of modernity being so awesome... Plus that we should be thankful for it to have dragged us out of the Tartarus of premodern history.
It's honestly a joke to see Westerners talk about being free from indoctrination while all they do is echo the officially sanctioned narrative of anything post-French Revolution being a continuous blessing, if not better than anything that came before.

>intentionally misquote

I wasn't even that poster.

The Hasn't looked like Hadn't to three different people. Apologies, but it was a poor choice of words.

Why don't you back up your shit with sources.

China 2016 education != China 1966 education

>The Hasn't looked like Hadn't to three different people.
No it didn't. You're illiterate if you can't see the difference between hasn't and hadn't.
>Apologies, but it was a poor choice of words.
It wasn't.

>Bo Xilai was extremely popular due to neo-Maoist policies

>what are nukes

It's like you guys all forgot about why WW3 didn't happen and why nuclear powers haven't been invaded since 1945.

The poster that misquoted you obviously rewrote it nearly word for word but got the "hadn't" mixed up with "hasn't." This may be intentional or not.

Shill or no shill, when three people make the same interpretation mistake, it's on you to write the sentence in a way that is easier to interpret how you want.

>when three people make the same interpretation mistake, it's on you to write the sentence in a way that is easier to interpret how you want.
It was perfect grammar. You're wrong. Stop apologizing for illiterates.

>and ironically use anti-corruption campaigns to be corrupt

There's a number of recent studies that show Xi allies being taken down by the corruption campaign.

Also, it's almost completely focused on the unprofitable SOE's and military.

I think you should be able to tell what Xi wants to do with these organizations now that he controls them.
Hint: there's been hundreds of unprofitiable SOE's closed down and the old military has been reformed into a Western style system with joint chiefs of staff and emphasis on Navy/Air Force/Rockets.

Okay.

Question.
Why did China avoid being colonized like India?

Oh yeah Xi isn't really all-powerful.
The Jiang faction is still going and isn't giving up without a fight.

Like it's funny. When I chat with my friends in the mainland, they all use these Jiang Zemin memes. Which at first I thought was an interesting way to see how 'open' China has become to depict their leaders cartoonishly. Which it kind of does. But especially for Jiang they're without mercy. Which goes to show they push the picture of him as a total joke.

Well it did, partly.
I guess it wasn't profitable to go deep inland and actually territorially control the vast landmass.
Pretty much like how the West mostly kept settlements near the coast in Africa because they didn't possess the means in the first few centuries to actually subdue it all.

China is an interesting nation with extremely interesting politics.

I personally don't think many people, even political scientists, understand China.

It's just so quiet about its real political changes inside the party.

In the meantime, the CRD is changing a lot in China and the corruption campaign is beginning to slow.
I believe Xi sometime in February got the memo that he and his anti-corruption had gone too far. Plus the budding cult of personality the state media was creating.

Deng's prodigee still have some power it seems.

I think slowing the anti-corruption campaign is for the best. China needs reform. When officials are all too scared to make decisions they want to, the machinery slows down and mistakes like the 2015 stock market and early 2016 currency depreciation occur.

Bits and pieces. Nothing like India or Africa.

If the Qing Emperor wanted to cause pain for the Europeans, he was able to do it at great cost for himself.

It just is interesting to think Britain didn't try colonizing China like India.

That doesn't sound very Communist.

I don't think we're fully aware here in the West that the meme market in China has extreme potential.
The fact it's been left unexploited is a disgrace.

Hahahah they have some crazy U WUT memes. I don't get half of them.

the facebook page
"Avant-garde memes from China - 中文的 ㄇㄧˊㄇㄨˋ" is fairly entertaining.

Huh. Alright thanks m8

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Reminder that every gook deserved to be cooked to death with napalm

Zhou Enlai was such a handsome dude

That's not agony per se, they peeled the skin off his face so all you see are his teeth.

I think I'd be in agony if that happened.

I was exaggerating, we already have enough from China. India will grow just as rapidly when China's wages increase. I don't know the critical amount per hour, but you will see a change of location very rapidly by businesses.

Its not the wage difference, its that the Chinese government is leveraging their economic prosperity as a showing of why they should keep control of the country. But this prosperity is temporary.