Is this the most unlikable empire in history?

The precursor to modern multiculturalism

Depends on whom you ask. Poland was partitioned between Russia, Prussia/Germany, and Austria.

Poles from the Russian partition hate the fucking Mongol-spawned Muscovites and want to enshrine hatred of Russia as the central dogma of Polish national identity.

Poles from the German partition hate the fucking genocidal Prussian cunts, blew up all the Bismarck towers they could get their hands on, Bydgoszcz Bloody Sunday best day of my life.

Poles from the Austrian partition continue hanging portraits of Habsburgs in their city halls, proudly renovate inscriptions saying which Emperor commissioned a particular public building, give state funerals to Habsurgs (I've attended one in 2011: youtube.com/watch?v=fI9shfJioqo), jokingly use the expression "za cysorza" ("in the emperor's (time)") to mean "in the good old days", and have wet dreams involving an alt-history where the right side won the Austro-Prussian War.

I'm a Pole from Żywiec and my grandma still has a portrait of Franz Joseph on the wall.

>"When I attempted to find a simple formula for the period in which I grew up, prior to the First World War I hope that I convey its fulness by calling it the Golden Age of Security. Everything in our almost thousand year-old Austrian monarchy seemed based on per- manency, and the State itself was the chief guarantor of this stability. The rights which it granted to its citizens were duly confirmed by parliament, the freely elected representative of the people) and every duty was exactly prescribed. Our currency, the Austrian crown circulated in bright gold pieces an assurance of its immutability. Everyone knew how much he possessed or what he was entitled to what was permitted and what forbidden. Everything had its norm its definite measure and weight. He who had a fortune could accurately compute his annual interest. An official or an officer for example, could confidently look up in the calendar the year when he would be advanced in rank, or when he would be pensioned. Each family had its fixed budget, and knew how much could be spent for rent and food, for holidays and entertainment; and what is more, invariably a small sum was carefully laid aside for sickness and the doctor's bills, for the unexpected. Whoever owned a house looked upon it as a secure domicile for his children and grandchildren; estates and businesses were handed down from generation to generation. When the babe was still in its cradle, its first mite was put in its little bank, or deposited in the savings bank, as a "reserve” for the future. In this vast empire everything stood firmly and immovably in its appointed place, and at its head was the aged emperor; and were he to die, one knew (or believed) another would come to take his place, and nothing would change in the well-regulated order. No one thought of wars, of revolutions, or revolts. All that was radical, all violence, seemed impossible in an age of reason."

Stefan Zweig

Even Jews liked Austria-Hungary.

Sounds like Complacency: The Empire

>jokingly use the expression "za cysorza" ("in the emperor's (time)") to mean "in the good old days"

On that note, does anyone have a copy of Kołakowski's "My Correct Views on Everything"? Apparently it was released in English in 2005.

In the Polish original a humorous definition he gives for "Conservatism" was something like "it's never been as good as in emperor's Franz's days again".

And then they tried to destroy the world with WW1.

This one is pretty bad.

This one too.

Some Asians actually like the Japs because at least they expelled the Europeans.

>Even Jews liked Austria-Hungary.

>He who had a fortune could accurately compute his annual interest
Of course they did, of course they did.

only for the short time between europeans leaving and japs arrving

only revisionist fedoras.

Byzantine should've won.

The one that caused the most butthurt? Nippon, Aztecs, UK, USSR, Rome (Celts weren't too happy to vanish) America if you count it. All good choices.
The most tasteless? Brazilian "Empire"

Oh wait scratch all those. Ottoman Empire. Bar none. Not even Germany or USSR can compete. Had an entire continent absolutely butthurt for centuries.

t. Uneducated mong

I am sure that other empires like Russian, British, Ottoman or even German was hated more. This is because they actually fucked up with everyone as they was relevant in their time. Austria was meme.

Nice try, but we all know >the >real >answer

england

>Celts weren't too happy to vanish
how do you know?

>Balkanproblems.

>hurr, the Habsburgs got their empire through dynastic marriges

yeah, that's so much worse then conquering other countries, killing thousands like every other empire did. how dare they establish an empire in a peaceful manner?

> peaceful
Bohemia, Poland, Bosnia and Italy weren't taken in peaceful way.
And don't forget it was Austro-HUNGARIAN empire. Hungarians weren't too peaceful either.

It was certainly the most comfy empire.

/thread

>Hungarians weren't too peaceful either.

as a magyar yeah, magyarisation was a mistake

but the Empire also had the most liberal system in Europe, even if it looks fucked up from today standards, there were big religious freedom, ethnic schools were allowed if the minority was at least 20% etc.

if federalization happened it could had survived

>t. Slobadan Balkanovic
turkish and eastern european IP's should be banned from discussion of ottoman empire

If that Serbian dick didn't shot Archduke and just waited few years there could have been Austro-Hungarian-slavic empire. Instead all we got was failed empire and two world wars.

I'm not from eastern Europe or Balkan.

fuck Ottoman Empire

>Ayy, Franz Joseph. What kinda country you want, famm?

The Austrian Empire was the sexiest empire in history,
That Hungarian comprimise business was pretty shit though.

Go home Greek you are acting like empire again.

Brasilian empire was sexiest.

>lemberg
Everything was build by Poles and renovated by Austrians.

Fuck ukrainians.

>Austro
>Hungarian
>Empire

I mean, the name already makes them look pretentious

Fuck off

No. Its a regional "empire" if anything. It has no global impact that other empires had.

Jesus fuck, the retardation of this thread. Austria was a bedrock of European stability and culture and removing it was retarded.
>le inbreeding
go back to /int/ you shitheads.

As an Austrian I have to agree with this.

Dank memes aside, how is it possible to >hate< Austria-Hungary? It was at best a bedrock for the region and at worst merely static.

It was Slavic nationalism that ruined everything. Look how Yugoslavia turned out.

That's really interesting, you don't really associate Poles with the Austrian Empire very strongly, so I'm surprised there is so much of a mark there still from them.

*serbs tried to destroy the world

Because outside of austrians and czechs, all the inhabitants considered it a plague. It also considerably shitted up a good half of the lands it took over.
Adding the fact that it wasn't glorious in any sense, it lacks boos, so only neutrals and haters are left.

First sentence and you already show you know nothing.

Veeky Forums is full of nationalists, and although there is nothing wrong with nationalism the nations of A-H have a lot in common in terms of cuisine, politics, and culture. Just look at all the Slavic and Magyar loanwords that made it into Austian German. But people don't see that, and dismiss it as another "sick man of Europe" standing in the way of nationalism and proof of multiculturalism's failure.

Also there is a lot of disinfo on the topic of the empire's collapse, the assessment after WWI was generally that A-H was "doomed to fail", while recent works have pretty much collapsed that theory. Most of the Empire's minorities wanted nothing more than autonomy, and were fairly ambivalent or cynical towards full independence.

So basically, memes.

>Because outside of austrians and czechs, all the inhabitants considered it a plague.
How about you pick up a book sometime, you fucking retard.

Your nose is a biohazard at this point Pinocchio.

not an argument

You didn't make an argument either lad.

>serbs hated it
>croats hated it
>hungarians and wanted to secede
>Italians wanted out

Poles and germans loved it from what I know. Don't know how czechs and slovaks were doing at the time.

They wanted autonomy. Romanians and ukies also hated it, maybe the most out of all of them.

>most unlikable empire
>empire

Czechs wanted Austria-Bohemia-Hungary, and Slovaks were mud farming, knowing nothing about the world around.

>serbs
weren't even a part of it
>croats
no
>hungarians
no, they had one revolution, that isn't indicative of anything, and in fact the Hungarian nobility was the a major conservative force in the empire.
>Italians
I'll give you that
>czechs
autonomy
>slovaks
did not really possess a national conciousness

>serbs weren't part of it

Kys

>one revolution

Oh, you're talking about the Serbs that migrated into Hungary to get away from the Ottomans. yeah I'm sure they "hated" the empire.

It was the smallest of the three partitions, especially after the Austro-Prussian war where the Prussians took over a fair part of Polish-speaking territories from the Austrians.

Still, the Russians and Prussians could be quite repressive and had Russification/Germanisation programs going, amplified by differences in religion (Poles were mostly Catholic like the Austrians, and Bismarck's Kulturkampf REALLY soured the mood).

Meanwhile in the latter days of the Austrian partition Poles had a degree of autonomy, had their own schools, were represented in the Imperial Parliament, and could rise to high offices (e.g. Gołuchowski or Badeni).

Also after the war some of the Habsburgs ended up taking up Polish citizenship and serving in the Polish military against the Soviets in 1918 and the Nazis in 1939. They refused German citizenship from the Nazi government and were even sent to labor camps.

How retarded are you honestly? 1 to 10, easy scale, even for you, gimme a number.

Why is it that when it comes to Austria everybody all of a sudden thinks radical ultranationalists are representative of entire populations? Serbs were an insignificant part of Austria. They were a minority of a minority.

I'm gonna go with 8 since you obviously know how to type coherent albeit retarded statements.

not an argument. Serbs were not even a remotely important population within the empire. 4% of the population during that time period. You are retarded.

>4%
>not even a remotely important population

4% is a decent amount. The Muslim population of Germany is less than 4%. The Muslim populations of Sweden, the Netherlands and the UK are all around 5%.

They still are the subject of daily discussions there. Before the Nazis came to power, less than 1% of the population was Jewish. They still caused a lot of commotion.

>serbs
Represented a significant enough part of the population and their pro-yugoslavic policy had an effect on the entire empire.
>croats
Yeah, I'm sure being split between Hungary and Austria and kept unindustialized and undeveloped was a fun time for them. Not to mention the germanization and magyarization
>hungarians
Were itching for independence for some time. The revolution didn't just spring out of nowhere

Were/are the slovaks just Czech's dumb little cousins? How did they not develop a national consciousness by the 19th century?

that is because are taking over our major cities, not throwing occasional temper tantrums in some backwater province.

>Were itching for independence for some time.
No they were not, 1848 was a dead end and had occurred the same amount of time in the past that World War II was to us today in 1914. Nobody cared.
>Yeah, I'm sure being split between Hungary and Austria and kept unindustialized and undeveloped was a fun time for them.
What the fuck do you mean "kept"? Was Croatia going to be an economic/industrial powerhouse otherwise? This is a country that had not been independent since 40 years after the Norman conquest of England, they were content with their position and even intervened against Hungary in 1848.

I have never seen a single shred of evidence that indicates any part of the empire besides the Italians, Serbs, and maybe Ruthenians and Rumanians wanted to leave before 1914. It's a post-war fallacy not founded on fact but nationalist delusion.
>Represented a significant enough part of the population
They were sub-five percent of the population.

WHAT ABOUT SLOVENES

They are demographically "taking over" major cities because that's the most logical place for them to live. It's not some sort of collective hive-mind. Little to no cries for separatism. At most you have a few guys who blow themselves up or advocate for Sharia. That's nothing compared to militant separatism.

The Austro-Hungarians had to deal with that kind of separatism (guerrilla-fighting and all) a lot. They were quite good at dealing with it too, look up what they did in Bosnia.

It sucked. Look at how many times Napoleon kicked their ass, or how they did in WW1. Vienna was a great city but otherwise the "Empire" was a pretty big joke.

Who the fuck looks at history like this? Are you 12?

They did that and then feigned interest in independence movements while in reality being even more oppressive than the European colonist predecessors. The Japanese were pretty atrocious. The best thing I can say about them is that they pretty much learned their ways from the West and copied them well.

Never forgetthi lads

The question was whether these militant nationalist groups represented the interests of the majority of the population, and in most cases they have been shown to not have a popular mandate. With exceptions.

In 1878 there were 80k people who resisted. Of course they were massively aided by the Ottomans, but if 80k men are willing to fight (and I doubt the population of the Balkan was that big at the time), then something is up.

that's not insignificant but it's a bit of a fringe example considering the religious and cultural differences involved. Bosnia was hardly a "core" part of the empire and even that withstanding that hardly seems like a majority of fighting age male Bosniaks out of a population of 1,300,000.

Nonetheless I would concede I am on shaky ground making these arguments about Bosnia. Slovenia and Croatia would be better examples.

>germanization
Literally what

This.

Austria didn't really dabble in Germanisation as a policy like Prussia/Germany did. The Habsburgs were resigned to ruling a multicultural empire based on monarchist rather than nationalist ideals.

...

>Bohemia ... weren't taken in peaceful way
But it was. Unless you think the Habsburgs had not ruled Bohemia for a hundred years before the thirty years war. In which case you would be wrong.

Well there was Joseph II.

t. Rebecca West

and so on *sniffs*

That he was the most extreme in this regard with how little he actually did goes a long way to demonstrate how liberal the Habsburgs really were on this front.

Compare and contrast with Bismarck setting up shit like the Prussian Settlement Commission.

In the 19th century (1848) they wanted to unite all regions where Slovenes lived into a Slovene kingdom but within the Austrian Empire and to make Slovenian language equal in public use. That was squashed in the absolutist period following the spring of nations, after that they just basically wanted to be seen as a nation with their own language but always within the empire (until WW1).
In schools the Habsburgs and the Austrian Empire are generally taught in a neutral, sometimes even positive manner (Joseph II reforms), except for perhaps Metternich who is presented as a bad persona.

Austrians literally only had to let Serbs have Bosnia instead of taking it for themselves. That's the only thing even the most ultra-nationalist Serbs in Serbia wanted. But no, "muh imperialism". Well, they got their empire.

>WHAT ABOUT SLOVENES
Slovenes are a myth

Roman empire is the most hateable because it ended the roman republic.
But the most lovable because it's still roman

The Ottoman empire was terrible though. Whilst their initial success against Europe can be attributed to post Arabic golden age technological advancements and religious zeal after killing the Byzantines the whole thing soon turned stale.

The only educated people in the empire where in anetolia and the Greek lands, the rest basically nomads. The majority of the land was shit and they only made improvements to the Turkish lands which also stopped due to massive ecanomic stagnation. The army was terrible and ineffective after the janissaries gained political power to a point where massive portions of the empire fell to revolts.

It wasn't regarded as the sick man of Europe for no reason.

>implying we didn't like it
I remember my grandpa telling me how his father and his great father told him stories about it, they loved it and everyone prospered in it. Gott erhalte Franz der Kaiser is still sung here and there, although I hear it rarely since like 90s, maybe all the people died.

Plus we Croats were same nation as Czech, Slovenians, Slovakians, Ukranians and Austrians. It was like better Yugoslavia. Better because it had no Serbs.

Get over yourselves Anglos, The Crown is the most hated institution in the world by far. Ottomans were actually civilized and comfy, even though nobody wants to admit it now looking in retrospective when the Muslim world is hated.

>It was like better Yugoslavia. Better because it had no Serbs