How do we end wage slavery?
How do we end wage slavery?
Other urls found in this thread:
en.wikipedia.org
twitter.com
By introducing the handout slavery
Basic income
Wouldn't we radically have to alter the way society works?
Tell me about the dead Hebrew on a stick, why does he carry the scissor?
This. Basic income slavery.
>slavery
>not bound to an owner or land
>Can quit
>can move
>not subject to physical punishments
>compensated in legal currency
What?
If a wage slave is happy and content with being a wage slave, than why stop him?
people are disappointed they have to work to survive instead of having things handed to them I guess
Try having a life without being a wagecuck. Being independent is mostly illegal now, e.g. collecting rainwater is illegal.
Communism.
Can working people quit their jobs?
Then it is not slavery.
Problem solved.
The last point aside, you mean having to work like 99.9% of all people who have ever lived, including slave owners? sounds terrible
>making food, transporting clean water, and shelter all take effort
>people that use the word wage slavery unironically would like survival to be completely free of effort
>this would make a few work hard to support to majority
>leads to actual slavery
Most farmers only work a couple hours a day as their own will while enjoying the outdoors and getting exercise. Compare that to what you'll likely have as a mandatory 8 hours a day sitting on your ass in a tiny cubicle in front of a computer screen.
Collecting driftwood is illegal, too. At least here.
dont romanticize manual labor, its true that medieval farmers worked less hours. They also had to do everything manually, and lived in conditions we would not want to live in.
If someone wants to farm some unused hillside as a subsistence farmer they should go ahead, most of them would probably be on the streets begging in a few weeks rather than live through planting and harvesting season
yes, but with modern knowledge and the hindsight of history manual labor ought to be more rewarding than back-breaking.
You don't have to work in a cubicle you know. Berry picking jobs still exist.
I live off of allowance and whatever my husband earns :^)
>final fantasy ad30.png
jesus used scissor attack
it's super effective
Not necessarily. our somewhat sedimentary childhoods dont prepare us well for that type of work. We lack a lot of flexibility and functional strength compared to them
No we don't.
Honey? Is that you?
...
Yes we do.
>Most farmers only work a couple hours a day as their own will while enjoying the outdoors and getting exercise.
They also get back pain by 35 and wil suffer from arthritis for the rest of their lives.
Oh, and good luck going on vacation more than once per year .
>all modern techniques and all lessons that can be learned from history anount to nothing because...
>NO FUNCTIONAL STRENGTH PLFFFFTTRT
Why the fuck are you even here? Go lift some weights for your functional strength, you idiot.
It's both. Modern technology doesn't mean the work gets less hard, it simply means you can output more.
Lifting weights is great, but it does not directly translate to the bending, lifting, squatting and other routines of low technology people.
That isn't necessarily true either. You can adapt old techniques using modern methodology, or vice versa, or even synthesize past and present to innovate new ways to grow food, plant, etc.
I mean just look at the fucking mycology community. They've mastered the growing phases and are constantly improving. Limiting yourself to modern technology is just as dumb as saying we can't work because we're not strong enough
So, any solutions yet?
anyone into social credit theory? I heard in a podcast that according to social credit theory, money could be used like a book you borrow from a library and return after you used it. Anyone care to explain how this would work?
This.
The wage slavery meme needs to die.
Unionize. Its basically us vs. them, and since unions have been demonized by corporations people fell for it and they have be disappearing since.
People think unions are only for safety and shit like that but looks whats happening. Everyone is getting shafted now.
What is "wage slavery" exactly?
I know Chomsky has said that it is when you only have a choice between working for shit pay, or starve, but that's true for anyone tbqh.
If you don't work(i.e labor to eat), in a state of nature, you'll die. Does that mean that nature causes slavery?
Unions are demonized because they are often just as corrupt as many corporations which, because they're held to a higher moral standard, ruined their reputation in Anglo countries especially.
>those demons
Is this canon
You are exactly the kind of person who I has talking about who fell for their propaganda.
Sure some were corrupt, power does that, but that is the price you have to pay. The good of them outweighs the bad by far.
Just fight the corruption when you see it.
Unions have hardly ever been stronger than they are now. They have had incredible success at the federal level getting their way ensconced in law. It's just that their bargaining power has gone down with the rise of global markets. Suddenly they have to compete with people they can't moralize to, regulate, buy, or intimidate, and they don't know how to handle it but gnash their teeth and whine for protectionism.
They still wield vast political and economic power - just look at the size of the donations they give to Bernie Sander's presidential campaign and the rise of protectionist policies on both sides of the political aisle.
>Does that mean that nature causes slavery?
According to these "muh wage slavery" retards, yes. People have gotten too used to their current liberties and a sort of mission creep has set in. Now the next frontier of freedom is freedom from everything. True freedom is now defined as freedom from everything, including natural constraints on humans imposed by nature.
This desu. One of my friends is a labor correspondent for an online news organization. Unions are vile and still engage in threats and intimidation against political rivals. It's nuts.
>Borrow money
>Give it back after using it
What is credit?
I never said they didn't have power. The number of unions has drastically decreased in the private sector.
Looking at the difference in benefits between public and private sector shows that with unions, you get to bargain more.
Globalization is a whole other discussion that needs to be addressed. It definitely affects the unions but not as much as other policies.
Dude, the percentage of unionized Americans has dropped like a stone since the 50's
>You are exactly the kind of person who I has talking about who fell for their propaganda.
Did I say that i was against unions? I'm perfectly for unionization and most people are. I'm explaining why they are so demonized and disliked in Anglo countries.
>Sure some were corrupt, power does that, but that is the price you have to pay. The good of them outweighs the bad by far.
Let's put it this way. Corporations acting scummy is nothing new, it's expected and no one sees them any differently. They're in a class akin to politicians who are so above everyone that it's hard to care.
Unions acting scummy on the other hand reflects much more on the workers and thus provokes more outrage from the general public, as they were championed as the moral defenders of the public from said corruption. Its like how doctors get absolutely shat on if they're charged with malpractice, people are outraged because these people are supposed to protect us, not cause us harm.
Like I said before, I'm not anti-Union, far from it, but the scandals that rocked unions decades ago severely hurt the publics faith in them.
And Unions share a lot of the blame for that. It's not simply black and white.
>the number of unions has drastically decreased
Doesn't diminish the fact that they still have a lot of political and lobbying power.
>you get to bargain more
You'll bargain your own job out from under you. We're never going back to the 50s, where that shit was basically risk-free.
Less people in unions, but they certainly don't have diminished lobbying power.
The world economy in the 1950s was a totally different beast. The US was the only large industrialized country capable of large-scale production, so labor got to call the shots a lot more. It made sense to be in a union and leverage that favorable position. Nowadays not so much. The constraints placed on business by global competition means that unions end up causing more harm than good when they overstep reasonable bounds, and they consistently try to overstep those bounds because they themselves are rewarded in the short term for it while they punish their employers in the long term.
>making food, transporting clean water, and shelter all take effort
How does your average white collar worker have anything to do with this process though? The problem isn't one of availability (diabetes now a bigger global issue than malnutrition, more vacant homes than homeless people in the US, etc) but one of distribution.
But if you totally alter the system that delivers those goods, then you will totally alter their availability.
problems of distribution result from real world issues. No one is going to transport 100 tons of food for free, no one is just going to give you a house that cost 100,000 to construct.
calling this a moral issue does not make evil the fact that people are not giving you the excess wealth for free
To be fair I never proposed we totally change the system. In fact I don't even think homelessness is enough reason to give every hobo a free vacant house, I was just using it as an example of the problem being distribution, not supply.
I totally accept the market system and the need for financial incentive in order for goods to be produced. However, that doesn't necessitate that we should condemn people without the means to provide decent-paying work for themselves to starvation and insecurity just because the status quo fails to provide for them. In fact, a basic income could be argued to be the logical conclusion of the modern capitalist mindset, as automation and technology makes more and more basic jobs obsolete. And without it, income inequality is only going to get exponentially worse, which is not only bad for the economy, but also bad for society as social unrest will inevitably follow as people are unable to provide for themselves through jobs that no longer exist.
The problem with wealth redistribution is that if you fuck it up you get something akin to Zimbabwe.
I am certainly skeptical of talk of a post capitalist economy and a general wage. It all sounds very Luddite to me
not really, the OP image I posted is a collage by Bruce Conner
Or you get countries like Germany, Britain, Australia, etc which have all had incredibly *successful* wealth redistribution programs.
Well according to the inhuman forms angels can take, it's possible that the demon Legion could have looked like some Evangellion 3D shape abomination.
>Britain's NHS
>an organization with 1.3 million highly paid employees endeavoring to ration medical supplies for everyone and make healthcare sclerotic to give everyone "equal" care
>successful
M8 pls, I think you're talking out of your ass. Just because those societies still function doesn't mean they're models of perfection.
People should not have to struggle to survive. Wage slavery is a misnomer; the truth is that humanity has always been enslaved, by nature (hunter-gatherers), institutions (government, business, and religion as a result of farming, industry, and service, non-respectively) and now increasingly by ideas (ideology, social media, technology). The people who cry out "Wage slavery!" are rallying against institutional slavery, while unwittingly falling prey to the next form of control, slavery by ideas, like ideology, Facebook, and games. The same thing happened with the transition from farming to industry, and then from industry to service. With the rise of automation, there's no next level of production to get behind, so people are rejecting the premise of the need to work in the first place. Now even that which replaces it will be called slavery, case in point is You'll only get rid of x slavery when you remove the human drive for order. If people just give up and are able to live without needing to care about the future, that's when x slavery will end. It's not really a deliberate effort on the part of anyone, mind you. Just the way humans deal with progress.
>How do we end wage slavery?
Automatic and mandatory worker owned co-operative for any business goes beyond the level of a “family” business.
The current capitalistic system can only degrade into oligarchy (as it’s already well on it’s way) and any communist system can only become a neo-feudal society, as we saw happen everywhere it was attempted.
There’s no getting around the fact that power is money and money is power, so the goal ought to be to spread the money among those who actually create it, giving them the power that comes with it, without imposing an corporate or government “nobility” onto the People.
“2002 Growers acquire Michigan Sugar Company and form the state’s first sugar cooperative.
On January 16, 2001, Imperial Sugar (and all of its subsidiaries), unable to pay its massive debt, filed Chapter 11 bankruptcy. As part of the bankruptcy restructuring, Michigan Sugar Company’s growers were approached by Imperial Sugar offering Michigan Sugar Company for sale. The Board of Directors of Great Lakes Sugar Beet Growers Association formed a grower-owned cooperative and contracted to purchase Michigan Sugar Company from Imperial Sugar and closed the deal on February 12, 2002.”
Working person here. No, I can't just 'quit my job'.
>can a slave disobey his master? Well then he's not really a slave is he?
I hate sophists on Veeky Forums
>""""worker owned""""
There is no realistic way to make this work. You'll always have a small collection of elites running the show.
>so the goal ought to be to spread the money among those who actually create it
So, the people who build businesses and organize trade? You're talking about the random schlubs that wait for someone else to come along and create something for them to do.
What do the scissors do?
>There is no realistic way to make this work.
There is no ending it, unless you massacre everyone with any ambitions whatsoever. Until then, you will always have people taking advantage of inferiors.
>Germany, Britain, Australia, etc which have all had incredibly *successful* wealth redistribution programs.
Is this bait? The UK and Australia don't have wealth distribution programs, and Germanies was literally "nationalize everything and then sell it at a fixed rate" which is hardly "distribution", rather monopolization.
Unless you're confusing welfare with wealth distribution, in which case you're more clueless than I realized.
Can you quit? Yes? If you won the lotto, could you quit? Yes?
Then you are NOT A SLAVE.
>NHS employees
>Highly paid
You wot?
Jump over the moon? Run away with the spoon? Something like that.
I bet you think Section 8 and SNAP is a form of Wealth redistribution.
they have little say over how many hours they work nor when they work. You could potentially be fired for a job you've worked for years just because you were late a few times
Technically its government redistribution of funds, so in a sense it is. But it's not traditionally what we think as wealth redistribution.
And?
Not seeing your point. Every Co-op ever is run unofficially by a few people while everyone else just does what they're supposed to do.
Except there is nothing “unofficial” about it, management in worker owned co-ops are employees like everybody else (or hired, serving at the will of the employee-owners) and do the same job as management in a privately owned company, the difference is a co-op exists to benefit _everybody_ in the company, not just the board of directors and stock holders.
If nothing else, a worker owned co-op is simply more efficient, because in a privately held company, both the owners and workers are continually trying to screw over the other and that's a poor way of doing business.
>the difference is a co-op exists to benefit _everybody_ in the company
No, they exist to benefit the people who started the co-op.
>If nothing else, a worker owned co-op is simply more efficient
Right, which is why they run the world.
maybe you could say it's more insidious, but slavery through force is much more of a pressing issue than slavery you can defeat purely with self control.
going from a struggle against your slave masters to a struggle against yourself is progress.
>Can working people quit their jobs?
not realistically, no
By getting the whole world under capitalism.
>"...vulgar are the means of livelihood of all hired workmen whom we pay for mere manual labor, not for artistic skill; for in their case the very wage they receive is a pledge of their slavery." - Cicero
>implying there is anything wrong with working for a wage every day in the field you like around the people you like, contributing to society and getting paid for it decently
You people are mental.
You can quit your job any time you want.
Unless you're literally a slave.
By definition, yes, people in debt are not slaves.
But let's not kid ourselves here. The debt system was created as a replacement for slavery, because we found that it makes the inferior masses more productive than slavery does. In the end, the masters are still the masters.
I'm not talking against this though. I'm no anarchist scumbag.
Thomas Jefferson tried to block the industrial revolution from happening in the United States. Because in his view, people who had to make wage were essentially unamerican and should just move to Europe since they hate freedom so much.
Free men owned property.
>You can quit your job any time you want.
Not if you've got rent, debt, bills, mouths to feed, etc. Which realistically most people will have. There aren't enough jobs to go around, let alone to have any sort of choice or leverage.
Time when 80%+ of the people lived outside of cities doing work on their land and selling/trading stuff.
except people quit their jobs to move on to something different all the fucking time.
there isn't a literal slavemaster with a pack of hounds and a bullwhip forcing you to work.
Good thing we live in modern days, were the majority of people are servants.
>going on vacation more than once per year .
People still go on vacations?
Slavery through force is an extreme aspect of institutional slavery, since it has been based in a culture, society, and/or legal system, progressively becoming more defined as humanity developed. So have other forms of institutional slavery. Certainly people have gotten more freedoms over time and there's been greater social mobility, but you still have millions of Americans living from paycheck to paycheck. That's true wage slavery. It's only going to get harder too. That's not a struggle against yourself. It can be as impossible for a service worker to escape a McJob as it is for a forced slave to escape. Same thing with farmers and factory workers really, only they had more dignity in work. Some people simply don't have the capacity to survive in an economy that only rewards creativity and invention, which is the future until AI is perfected.
And it's only a roughly linear process as well. "Handout slavery" isn't anything new either. A lot of people have to rely on food stamps to feed their families, in addition to the wages they're practically forced to work. It'll just become more relevant with a Universal Basic Income. I mean, of course people are free to abandon their families and start over or become survivalists, but that's crazy.
And then what? Then they have to find another one to survive. This isn't some abstract argument. There are Mexicans with American kids who live out of motels, working three or four menial jobs between the two parents to raise their kids. It's unbelievably arrogant to tell them, "You can quit your job any time you want." Yes, they could and they wouldn't be hunted down by dogs, but it would ruin their lives, so in practice, they cannot quit their jobs. These people don't have the options you have and it's not their fault either.
So bend, lift, and squat as a routine instead of doing it with high-intensity anaerobic exercise, you silly cunt.
You sound like a fat fuck who's given up on life under 300 pounds right now. Just sayin.
Holy shit.
You can literally quit your job any time you want to.
>But muh life will suffer as a consequence.
NO SHIT!
Be homeless. No job. Scrounge for food. Stink.
Be proud of not being a "wage slave" anymore!
>Most farmers only work a couple hours a day as their own will while enjoying the outdoors and getting exercise.
have you ever worked on a farm? It's a full time job, with long ass work days, and you can't just work "at your own will", there is always shit to be done. and it has to be done or else something else will fuck up down the line. You have to be on the ball. You can call it "exercise" if you want but it's not like you're actually helping your body. You'll fuck up your back and your neck.
Jesus fuck this thread is full of lazy entitled shits.
>have to work to survive
>like the rest of all humanity (save a few elites) throughout history
Not to mention working environment with
>physical safety
>AC
>15 minute breaks
>lunch breaks
>weekends off
>2 weeks vacation
If you don't like your job, you can quit and look for a new one. If you can't find a new one, it's because you aren't actually looking for a job. If you can't find a job you "enjoy" (again like 99% of humanity since the beginning of time), it's because YOU are not good enough. Improve yourself through education and other personal improvements to get a better job.
Jesus Christ you call this slavery? What a bunch of pussies.
You're ignoring my point. Could a slave plot to kill his master and flee into the woods and escape the country? Yes. By your logic he's not really a slave because there is technically a way for him to avoid his condition, however risky and perilous it may be.
This thread:
>I have to physically place food in my mouth and chew it to survive
>muh slavery
Thankfully, I'm not a "wage slave" nor do I think there's no dignity in being one, but propagating a system in which humans still have to struggle to survive is not only immoral, but will become obsolete very soon. What exactly do you think happens when enough people feel like they have no options within the system? Everybody goes home and waits it out?
Not everybody has those luxuries. Not even close. Some people don't even have the time or money to earn an education. The best they can hope for is to slave away long enough, just bear it as much as they can, so that their children can have a better shot. You live in an ivory tower. The higher you go up, the more abstract the concept of slavery is. It's really more accurate to refer to your situation as constraining your freedoms, rather than destroying them.
Sorry, I didn’t realize you had no idea of what you're talking about.
Carry on then.
Dude. A 9-5 wage job is not that bad. You have to work to survive. Be smart on how you spend money and you can provide a better life for your kids, like my parents and their parents and their parents did. I'm by no means rich, but I'm better off because I had smart ancestors. You are not a slave because you have to work to live
Servants serving other servants. How poetic
It's illegal not to have at the very least 1 week unpaid vacation. Where do you work?
This sounds like heaven
>you will never own the goods you produce
Slaves are forced to work to live. If you have to work to live, then you are a slave, on some level. In this respect, humans have always been slaves, first to nature, then to others. No, it's not bad and it's as good as it's ever been right now, but neither is it ideal. People who don't have to work are not slaves, on any level. My ancestors were so smart that I'm at that level and it's great, so I'm not complaining for my own sake. The end goal of human development should be to abolish the need for work. It really doesn't matter what you think, because that's what will happen anyway, with automation and AI, unless we start going backwards. They will be able to do our jobs better than we can. Maybe not within our lifetimes unless medical technology really does explode with progress, but it'll happen eventually.
>slaves have to work to live
No, living organisms have to work to live. What the fuck don't you understand about this? Are you seriously that lazy?