Prove to me that God and Jesus are real, and that their messages are to be heard and their orders obeyed

I don't read capenovels, so I wouldn't know.

How do we know Spider man isn't Real... Check Mate

There's evidence to believe, and there's evidence to not believe, finely balanced as though on a razor's edge.

So... Jesus is Spider-Man or what? Did he got bitten by radioactive God and acquire all of his powers from that?

Is there a probability associated with that outcome?

Only retards deny the existence of Jesus. The only thing debated about is his divinity.

What are other alternatives? How he was able to stay alive after cross if he wasn't divine?

He was bitten by god and is god. Radioactivity is also god

>The only thing debated about is his divinity.

The historical Jesus and the mythical Christ are completely different characters, in case that eluded you.

Christ did not exist; however, it is possible a preacher named Jesus did exist, who gathered some number of followers and had miracles and supernatural abilities attributed to him after he died.

The muslims think it was a trick; that they switched bodies and someone else died on the cross, and then they stole and hid the body.

The Jews say that Jesus' followers bribed the guard to move the stone and lay down on the job, allowing the disciples to steal the body.

As the first hypothesis was 600 years after the fact, and has no basis in reality, and as the second is actually recorded in the bible, the same place that asserts the resurrection, both claims are weak.

People don't go to their deaths based on a lie they themselves perpetrated.

No body was ever found.

And hundreds of witnesses in Jerusalem saw Jesus after the resurrection. Maybe thousands. There is no written record of anyone disparaging the gospel account of the resurrection, and they were written in the lifetime of the eyewitnesses.

You are in for a shock when you find out it's all real.

>People don't go to their deaths based on a lie they themselves perpetrated.
You're pretty well educated

>And hundreds of witnesses in Jerusalem saw Jesus after the resurrection. Maybe thousands. There is no written record of anyone disparaging the gospel account of the resurrection, and they were written in the lifetime of the eyewitnesses

so basically just "because the Bible says because the Bible says because the Bible says"

Another very interesting theory jews give for jesus was that he did perform all hid miracles, but that he god his power either from baalzebub or, that he was a rabi who took the name of god with him from the temple, thus knowing the name of god and being able to perform miracles

Sorry, I don't put my stock in or structure my life around the myths of bored tribals or the fan-fictions written by imaginative Greeks and badly put together by repressed and frustrated individuals and the schizophrenics.

>People don't go to their deaths based on a lie they themselves perpetrated.
lel

I saw an interview with a follower of David Koresh in prison and she STILL believed he was the messiah. Even though he was executed by the government. Imagine that!

wow that so epic i forgot to XDDD

Jesus*
He*
His*
He*
got*
He*
God*
Him*
God*
Blasphemous phone and big thumbs caused this

>People don't go to their deaths based on a lie they themselves perpetrated.

You're not very intelligent, or even well-versed in history. People have died and gone through torture for the shit they themselves came up.

Notable examples include:
-Waco Siege
-Heaven's Gate
-Jonestown
-That Chinese man who insisted he was the brother of Jesus and caused one of the bloodiest wars in history

Well, you can't really deny that but it was even more crazy idea than a regular one.

The bible is trustworthy, as God is trustworthy.

You have to trust someone in life.

The sad part is that you believe it. Pathetic.

You have no room to disparage any other religion's odd or strange beliefs when yours is itself nothing but superstitious and nonsensical garbage.

If you do not build your life on the Rock, you build it on shifting sands.

Pray it never rains.

Never heard anyone claim the bible was proof of a God, other than atheists like yourself. Never heard anyone claim spider-man was written for anything other than an entertaining story (even the authors suggest it!) so there's no real valid comparison to how they should be examined from a historical perspective. If the author was claiming spider-man was real, along with a significant number of new yorkers also joining in with the comic it might be different.

Actually... Is there any quote from Holy Book where it says that god and jesus names should be capitalized?

Spider-man doesn't allow me to feel holier than thou and to think I will be alive after I die.
Therefore spider man isn't real and Jesus is, even though there is no evidence for one or the other.

I believe it was revealed to him by a demon that he mistook for an alien.

Er, the messiah was also executed by the government.

>You have to trust someone in life.
I trust myself. To independently evaluate evidence in an unbiased manner and come to my own conclusions. If you want to believe in Jesus as God feel free, I just don't think it's a very good conclusion to come to based on what we know about the bible.

> You have to trust someone in life.

Inb4 hong actually was the younger brother of jesus

> Never heard anyone claim the bible was proof of a God
Just read... I don't know. This thread. :^)

If you believe in Jesus how you can't believe in his brother? Doesn't seems to be logical for me.

I don't think you differentiate between sane people making up lies and delusional people hearing voices, so no.

The cult leader at Waco did what all cult leaders do; make young people accessible to have sex with.

The Heaven's Gate person was lied to by demons.

You have not provided one single solitary sane person who made up a lie and defended it to his death, with his last breath, while being murdered.

It's not very common.

>Er, the messiah was also executed by the government.
That was the point, bud.

Christians tend to think the death and resurrection of Jesus is the only possible reason anybody would still believe in him as God, therefore it must have happened and those people really saw it.

I was merely giving a contemporary counter example to the contrary.

I don't think so, but i guess it's respectful, and it has been done for a long time

Yes, in Strunk & Wagnell's.

>obvious troll who wouldn't be using the internet if he was serious
If you're dumb enough to believe this shitposter is anything other than a ruse master that's your own fault.

>"You have to trust someone in life."
>choosing to trust some superstitious fools who lived 2000 years ago

And given your limited knowledge of the afterlife, I find the person you trust in to be quite untrustworthy.

YO! Fuckface. Why don't you provide input instead of just asking some shitpost bait question? Are your mommy and fellow neckbeards proud of you for figuring out how to use the internet?

You haven't demonstrated that Jesus was any different from these fellows.

Without the resurrection.

Which is the entire ballgame.

Questions this
Still does "Holy Book" with capitals
God and Jesus are more important than the book.
Also god isn't a name

You literally believe a 2000 year old book is true because that same book tells you it's true.
>I'm the untrustworthy one

He created the universes.

Puts Him in a class all His own.

He fulfilled 350+ prophecies of the Messiah; born of a virgin; led a sinless life; performed many miracles and wonders; healed the blind, deaf, mute, crippled, lepers; raised the dead; fed 10,000 people with a few loaves and fish; prophesied His own death, by whose hands, on what day, by what means, and then prophesied His own resurrection on the third day.

Jesus is God.

I know that there is objective truth, and that objective truth can be known, yes.

All you did was fantastic mental gymnastics to ignore 2 very real examples and also ignored Jonestown/Chinese Jesus bro.

I have no input to give.
I don't see any reason to put faith into this particular belief system merely because a very old, and heavily edited book told me to.

So I'm waiting for an answer that will convince me, outside of the "he has risen/it is the word of God/etc."

>He created the universes.

Prove it.

Literally none of that shit about prophecies is verified anywhere but the Bible, which was obviously written in such a manner to validate claims of him being a messiah.

> universes
What is other universe that he created? Some parallel dimension or what?

> Still does "Holy Book" with capitals
I don't like lowcase h and b to Be Honest. They look autistic.

>What is other universe that he created? Some parallel dimension or what?
Christians are already preparing the back pedaling explanation in case physicists prove other universes exist

There are Christian physicists that accept the idea of a multi-verse
It's not something that has any bearing on Christianity's validity

THey*
At least be consistent in your compulsive disorder

To be fair Peter Parker is just a self-insert by Steve Ditko that got way out of hand.

>It's not something that has any bearing on Christianity's validity
The beginning of the universe has a ton of bearing on christianity as Christians believe their God did it and all scientific indications so far seem to indicate it could happen completely on its own.

You ARE NOT waiting for an answer, because you, like me, know there isn't one. You are just another piece of shit, wasting a thread on this board, posting mindless neckbeard bait for the fucking masses to argue about.

> Christianity's validity
Bible doesn't say anything about other world being created by God so monotheism collapses from the fact that other world could be created by any other God and such. Problem vary from theory to theory but you got the main idea.

The Bible said that God created all things so if there are other worlds God would be their creator.

if you say so
I mean you know everything, right?

>shitposting

How is that shitposting?

the fact you think someone's gonna post the right combination of words to make you go "EUREKA! I guess god does exist" betrays your terminal autism you dumb faggot

>being this much of an autist

god is jst what we call the reason why it happens on its own you utter utter fucking sperg

god fucking DAMNIT you faggots are dense

i don't care if you share my beliefs or not but at least engage with them on a level a bit more advanced than fucking sunday school and ebin simpsons jokes XDD god fuck

Neither were murdered by people demanding they recant their lies.

I don't know anything about the "Jesus bro" guy, but to say that all male Christians are Jesus' brother, and Jesus' biological brothers died 1900 years ago.

He doesn't actually think that but you probably know that too I guess.

There are many other implications. Like who would be in heaven if many-worlds interpretation is right? I wouldn't be so sure that there are no deep contradictions or at least interesting questions.

Yes, Jesus managed to make sure His parents gave birth to Him in Bethlehem, and made sure His mother was a virgin at the time.

He can do that, because He is God.

There's a third heaven where God and the angels live that can be called a parallel dimension, sure. It overlaps our two heavens and the earth at all points and at all times. People there can talk to people here, and at least one person saw a ladder from here to there being used by angels.

People will see contradictions where they want to see them and there are always interesting questions.

The people who use "other folds" don't understand that Jesus was referring to Hades/Sheol.

When Jesus died, He went to Hades, the paradise side (at least), aka the Bosom of Abraham, and led all of those people into heaven.

He descended, and ascended, setting the captives free.

> can be called a parallel dimension,
> overlaps the earth at all points and at all times
That is exactly how concept of parallelism doesn't work. Parallel means minimized overlapping, even zero overlapping. Still an interesting question what exactly God created.

Then it cannot be called parallelism.

>god is jst what we call the reason why it happens on its own you utter utter fucking sperg
>god fucking DAMNIT you faggots are dense
>i don't care if you share my beliefs or not but at least engage with them on a level a bit more advanced than fucking sunday school and ebin simpsons jokes XDD god fuck
I'm a graduate student in physics you mongoloid. I understand the beginning of the universe pretty fucking well and coming and claiming "God did it" when we have anot extremely advanced knowledge of the physics going on is both retarded and autistic.

Dense asshole.

>Neither were murdered by people demanding they recant their lies.
Neither was Jesus in all likelihood. As soon as he caused the disturbance in the temple he was going to be executed. There were literally hundreds of Roman soldiers lining the walls of the temple just waiting for signs of trouble. Pilate had violently put down disturbances within the temple grounds in the past.

The story of Jesus trial and execution in the gospels is an absolute fairy tale that conflicts with everything we know about Pilate and the execution of Roman law.

Yes, but it is just terminological nitpicking. How to define universe is the real question here.

So when jesus """"died"""" and before daddy resurrected him, he only had to sit around and wait in the marginally unpleasant hell? As opposed to the shitty, fleshwrenching parts?

What here was sacrificed and lost in the sake of sin, again?

>There's evidence to believe, and there's evidence to not believe, finely balanced as though on a razor's edge.

what do you think the word 'evidence' means?

>I'm a graduate student in physics you mongoloid. I understand the beginning of the universe pretty fucking well and coming and claiming "God did it" when we have anot extremely advanced knowledge of the physics going on is both retarded and autistic.
>Dense asshole.

you retarded fuck

the mechanism that is responsible for reality is God

jesus christ it's the first line in my post you dipshit

god has always been the ultimate cause/nature of existence

just because you conceptualize it as formulas and cosmological models doesn't mean I can't call it god you fuck

goddamn how hard is this to get

It doesn't conflict with anything.

Pilate went through with the crucifixion because the Jewish leaders threatened to go to Caesar and tell Caesar that Pilate was allowing a King to go free under his governorship.

Pilate killing someone to not be on Caesar's shit list violates nothing we know about any human being ever.

I define our universe as the earth and our two heavens, our atmo and space.

The third heaven is unlike our two, and is not "higher" than them, but as I said touching at all points and at all times, itself being timeless.

From there, God made the universe; He literally spoke it into existence.

A very nice place, I would imagine, as it is called Paradise. It is that place that Jesus told the thief on the cross He would meet him, that day. It is where the righteous dead stayed until heaven was opened.

When Jesus said "It is finished", it was finished. The work was done. The Law demanded death for sins, not eternal torment.

Eternal torment is what you get when you are born dead and stay dead.

Let's say the universe is evidence. Sun, moon, stars, earth, everything we know about.

I can see that evidence and be in awe of Jesus, Who made it.

You can look at the evidence and think it's beautiful, and odd that it appeared out of nowhere.

Same evidence. Different filters.

> the mechanism that is responsible for reality is God
There is no mechanism that is responsible for reality. It just exist. Like God in your theory just exist for example. Existence is already ultimate cause and nature of everything existent. Shocking right?

So does jesus's sacrifice need to be meaningful? Or is it symbolism in of itself.

And does the symbolism need some semblance of real sacrifice to work as symbolism? Or does it just give the benefit of the doubt that SOMETHING was sacrificed.

Because I was talking to another dude and I couldn't get it out of him that god or christ had actually lost anything in the ordeal that might make it a legitimate sacrifice as opposed to a temporary annoyance.

>It just exist.

Why do you peddle your own ignorance to people who know better?

Absolutely meaningful. Jesus fulfilled the Law; every single violation of the Law done by every single human being ever was paid for, in full.

God's holiness, justice and righteousness satisfied, He in His mercy and grace offers us the free gift of His salvation.

Salvation would not have been possible had there been a sin barrier between man and God. Jesus ripped down that barrier like He ripped down the curtain over the holy of holies in the Temple. Top to bottom.

Heaven's open.

Satan isn't real, either

The best trick the devil ever played was to convince people he did not exist.

While I'm not him, sure. That can't be proven or disproven with our current scientific methodology. Most people who hold themselves to those standards would say it's a pointless answer for that very reason and go on just fine without having to think about it. You trim the fat where it's not needed, right? They have more immediate, practical questions to answer unless they happen to be theoretical physicists.

But I would say that saying "It's REEAAALLY big and complex" is a really, really week argument. Because nothing there implies a creator. The universe just happens to be really goddamn big. A big thing doesn't need an infinite creator, just because infinite is infinitely bigger than big. You're just applying human senses of scale relative to difficulty. And it's been established that god does not abide by the limited human sense of scale.