What is your opinion on cigarette smoking among humankind?

suppression of estrogen

nuero protective- reduce risk of alzhiemers and parkinson

How is it heavy on the economy?

i think that had more to do with economic boycott than anything. you can't deny soldiers their smokes even with panzer chocolate

I'm glad civilized countries have realized how retarded it is.

Smoking is a habit that affects a large area around you.

I am at least glad that I live somewhere, where people can't smoke indoors anymore because I need to air out my clothes less after going out in public.

I'm laughing.

>nanny-state protect my safe space from bad smell
Most smokers are restrained and civil enough to refrain you crybully

It makes you look cool

I think there's nothing wrong with it in small amounts.

I smoke maybe once or twice a month at social outings because it gives me something to do with my hands and is a conversation starter. Smoking this infrequently hasn't caused me any problems, and the health risks of smoking once or twice a month are negligible.

I will say that if you are addicted to them, that isn't healthy and probably indicates something about your level of self control, but I'm not an expert on nicotine addiction.

It's bad for the human body, a drain on the economy, and an easy way to spot an addictive personality.

It sucks.
I smoke and i fucking hate it, but under high stress (because of uni, family problems or whatever) does kind of work.
Most smokers do have anxiety problems or other kind of mental weakness.
Same for weed smokers.

citation please

If you want to smoke, do it.

BUT DON´T DO IT AROUND ME YOU ASSHOLE

So let's get it straight- you claim that every single historical person who smoked on a regular basis is a degenerate?
You're gonna have to add a huge number of very cabable leaders, politicians, reformers and people with overal talent on that list and a large part of the Japanese male population, known for their hard working spirit and high IQ's (mind the generalization), to this list. Making retarded claims like that don't have to be refuted

and that may not be accidental, nicotine does interesting things for cognition and may even constitute as self-medication. people understand this as mentally ill people smoke because there is a fault with them but it could likely be the converse.

it also had to do with Hitler getting full on autistic whenever somebody smoked near him. It's just him forcing his own opinions upon the whole of the nation just because he didn't like thing x

How does contributing to the economy by buying cigarettes drain the economy?

>wanting a fucking nanny state
moreover, you're not a man if you're gonna whine about people smoking around you when it really has little to no affect on your life

or stimulants making people productive
or smokers dying in such a way the pensions are solvent

>Muh smoker culture
>Muh nanny state

yeah look at you, you're the cultural imperialist now

It seems like a dumb idea to smoke in the current year when there's plenty of smokeless tobacco products that are not detrimental to your health and in many cases cheaper aswell. But there's a lot of money involved and people tend to stick to what they're used to

I don't smoke myself and I do find the smell of cigarettes repulsive but I live northern Europe and we've got a big enough nanny state here as it is.

Green politicians and middle-aged women meddling with fucking everything they deem unnecessary, dangerous or repulsive to them

You're dum dum

>every single historical person who smoked on a regular basis is a degenerate

I would say anyone who started smoking after 1975 or so, yes.

>How does contributing to the economy by buying cigarettes drain the economy?

Broken window fallacy, right here.

take all your albums and burn them.

Pros: Makes you look cool

Cons: Eventually destroys your body

Looks good and feels good.

I don't myself though because I don't want the economic burden + hassle.

Caring about your health is for cucks thoug

I'm smoking lightly because it helps my digestion a lot. I used to have horrible stomach aches all the time for hours, now I just smoke one, take a shit and I'm fine.

even after we figured out how bad smoking really is for you after the 70's, numerous very competent people kept on smoking so it doesn't change anything

That's a broken window fallacy.

how so?
the productivity gains and pension savings vs a hyperbolic risks of disease boogeyman
you make it more binary than the case is.

So 30% of the Japanese male population including politicians and CEO's, are degenerate?

Furthermore, it is demonstrated that people with higher IQ, obviously, do better in life and tend to climb high in society. People you would say are not degenerate (well to /pol/ every other person is degenerate but /pol/ is /pol/)

Yet it is also demonstrated that people with high IQ tend to cause harm to themselves just as much as other people, if not even more because of depression and understanding that it really doesn't matter if you live for a couple of days longer in this world or not.

I see.
But how do you know smokers would spend the money they had for cigarettes on something better, or if they would spend it at all?

I curse aztecs everyday for my disgusting, unhealthy and expensive vice

somebody would've figured out that you can smoke tobacco at some point anyway

I curse the incas for mine

This. Smoking and drinking are most degenerate habits that exist. Confirmed to be harmful for you, but you smoke anyway because you are cucked by tabacco companies.

>anti-tobacco is not a shill industry as well
wew lad

Kills old people quickly before they can become a burden on the economy.

You don't need to be anti-tobacco to not smoke. If you are okay with being a cuck one cigarette once a while wouldn't hurt you that much.

Is their revenge agaisnt the white men for cucking their empire.

you do if you want to be politcal about it, which smoking has become a liberal grievance culture bug bear

At this point you're just asking about economics, not anything about smoking in particular.

>Successful people are completely mentally stable.

K.

I smoke sometimes and it's the fucking worst.

It looks cool you autistic freak

So? I'm talking about the broken window fallacy, which two people brought up as an argument against smoking.
It seems to me that if people simply use money they would have otherwise spent on one broken window for a different broken window, the fallacy becomes meaningless.

Meant for

Not with modern medicine. Now their life is dragged out a few miserable years at an enormous cost.

You know what looks cool? Being alive, fit & healthy.

Not as cool as smoking though

Quit smoking over a year ago. I had five years of smoking under my belt at about 6 to 10 a day. Once I quit I realized just how un-beneficial smoking was to my life. I always thought cigarettes helped me be productive when I was working or studying but now I know that it actually just dragged me away from work. I can smell more things now, I don't wake up with my lungs feeling like crap, no constant cravings, I have way more spending cash. But also little things like being able to drink beer without constantly leaving to smoke.

>it does relieve stress but only for a real limited amount of time
Actually the only stress is relieves is the stress of not having nicotine due to addiction. Tobacco consumption actually increases the levels of cortisol in your body as well as being a stimulant. So it actually causes stress opposed to reliving it.

Look up the consequences of Khat on Yemen.

What are you, 17?

>le humans are perfectly rational beings

>second-hand smoke increases the risk of respiratory problems later in life for those exposed to it
>cigarettes are literally addictive cancer lollipops which forces a country with a socialist backed healthcare system into paying hundreds of millions to treat and loo after these idiots

> humans aren't perfectly rational
> let's make obviously shit decision because of it! XD

>getting full on autistic whenever somebody smoked near him

Smoking is really quite unpleasant. It yellows the teeth, fouls the breath, and the second-hand smoke has been proven to increase the risk of many diseases in those exposed to it.

The broken window fallacy was brought up against this statement: , no?
Also, why are you assuming that the money people will stop spending on smoking will go to an equally worse thing? There are a lot of habits that will get rid of stress without impacting your health like smoking does.

Dumb meme created by the scummy people to make money.

And the idiots who fell for it, defend it. Literally retarded.

Passive smoking is bullchit let this meme die already.

Even if people spend on things better for their health it doesn't mean that it's better for the economy.
Maybe they buy a dvd player and instead of smoking and being relatively more productive they sit around watching tv all day. Maybe they buy a pair of skis and break their neck in an accident. Who the fuck knows what they will buy, but it will probably be a luxury that isn't all that much preferable so who cares if they smoke instead.

Humans are naturally inclined towards addictive personalities. They will do things they are 100% aware is bad for them, and do it gladly. There doesn't exist a logical defense for it.

But it's not a logical thing. It's emotional, pathological. Humans may seem to have comfortable lives from the outside looking in. But inside it could be pure turmoil. Ask anyone on /r9k/, they'll tell you all about it. People seek out destructive behaviors because they think it may provide a temporary respite to their own stress or other issues. It provides a kind of "high" similar to caffeine, another addictive drug. It distracts them from their own reality in the same way that tv or novels distract people. It's simply a form of entertainment, in the way it alters your way of thinking. It makes you feel different, and that's exciting. Whether you're depressed or not, it's fun (to some people). It's also been associated with all the "bad boys" of history and has a cultural element of coolness associated with it, which can be considered nothing more than a fad. It certainly transcends other fads though.

Honestly I think weed needs to be legalized because of this reason. We have to accept that humans are going to engage in these things, instead of arresting people and ruining their lives for it we could provide it and also provide ways of enjoying it responsibly and offering ways of getting of it. There is no doubt in my mind that weed is a better (more healthy) vice than cigarettes or alcohol or caffeine.

Not a Veeky Forums thread.

I've wondered recently, are these feelings closer to hunger than I thought? After all, isn't hunger a feeling?

Do we feed them, can we fast them?

If pleasure eating and alcoholism meet the same root need, is alcoholism not an obesity of the mind?

You want to talk about early tobbacco trade, or the ancient roots of DUDE WEED XD?

Because you're very much free to, and you'll likely get replies.

>you're free to make on topic posts while I shit up the board.

Nah, how's Veeky Forums feel about me dumping fetish porn in this thread?

Depends on what fetish

Do what you want, I have other threads that interest me. I don't hold discussions on the internet in such high regard that my day will be ruined if I see scat porn instead of discussion.

But I would prefer you contribute, over complain. Practice what you preach and the such, right?

Anyways I should have asked that lol.

As a long time user, I'd protest if anyone said weed doesn't change you though. I think the cult around weed that assumes it's perfect is really bad. And I hate how pushy some stoners are about it. But that's what happens when you make something your only avenue of validation. I think it really can make you more inclined to seek out instant gratification. But I also think it's up to you to reign that in. Weed is no more the problem that people are.

In a way, Veeky Forums is like this. I post for the emotional investment a reply gives me. Whether it is shitposting or virtue signalling(don't pretend like any of us don't, please) or if it's an honest discussion. We'd be pretty arrogant to assume that you don't get a lot of the same good feelings here that you do from interacting with people face-to-face. And we'd erase the feelings of others to assume that they don't come here for lack of the latter. I can be a lonesome motherfucker, so the emotional feedback of it is something desirable to me. And in turn, I do it more than I'd like to.

>Maybe
Oh wow user, that's such good point you have there!

It's interesting to think how fashions change throughout history.

Prior to the Doll/Hill studies, for instance, tobacco smoking was apparently thought of as a cold/cough remedy.

I don't think you understand the broken window fallacy. The idea is that it is good to spend money on destructive things because you must also spend money on rebuilding the destroyed things, thus stimulating the economy. The heart of the fallacy is that it is economic busywork. There is no net gain to the economy at large. Spending your money destroying your lungs just so you can get addicted to more cigarettes and spend more money on medical bills is not good. That is money that could have been spent on better roads or rockets to Mars or virtually anything else.

Thanks man.
The point is people are mostly going to replace luxuries with other luxuries. Sorry I can't tell you exactly what those luxuries will be and how it affects the economy in every single instance.

My point is that money won't go to building roads it will go to wine, cocaine, hookers, video games, iced cream, etc

ridiculous when cigars and to some extent cigarillos exist.

Not necessarily so you don't really have an argument.

You can't just say that without a proper reason to assume so. Just look at people who have stopped smoking, do you think that every one of them now has started snorting cocaine or are now drinking alcohol / eating ice cream constantly?
At least we can say that quitting smoking would certainly lead to an improvement in health.

People are free to smoke but it is really quite a stupid thing to do.

Beyond that, its deeply unpleasant for those around you, even afterwards you still stink of it. And your addiction means you can't go long before you become an irritable arsehole so plane journeys with smokers sure are fun.

I wouldn't recommend it. My whole family smoke except me. Thanks for all the second hand smoke cunts.

No there's nothing wrong with doing things that are fun and make you feel good. Smoking is bad for a variety of reasons, but not because it makes you feel good. (Although studies show that eventually it stops making you feel good and just takes away the cravings for a while).

Alcohol is fine in moderation. I didn't used to drink, totally straight edge. I started drinking, and guess what i discovered, I'm not a big drinker, i drink socially, i drink to loosen me up and relax, i don't drink for the sake of drinking nor am i interested in getting totally wasted and acting like an idiot. It's led me to the conclusion though, that those loud asshole drunk cunts who cause a lot of problems, alcohol isn't the root cause of that, those people are just pricks. I have been very drunk and never acted like that.

I do think it would lead to overall better health. I don't know that that necessarily results in a better economy.
Even if that is the result what do you do? Make it illegal? But where do you stop? Why not ban iced cream, movies etc? Are these not broken windows as well? They do nothing else to contribute but to provide us with pleasure, but it's pleasure that people live for.

It literally defines liberty in my eyes

Parents smoked around me and my siblings throughout all of childhood.

I don't like that they did it around us as kids, but I have no real problem with it these days as long as it's not around other kids or in my face.

Alcohol is like the most prominent source of the mental problems. Basically it is a leading cause of the literal degeneracy. I hardly can take seriously anyone who is okay with that, but instead tries to fight against fictional sources of degeneracy that doesn't even compare with pathological impact of alcohol on society. Of course there exist a people who can drink responsibility, but so is true and for any other potentially harmful behavior in society. Well, maybe it wasn't actually that bad. Accurate statistic is hilariously hard to find on that matter, but basic idea is that it is one of the biggest kind of factors in the play and you can't just ignore it.

>healthier workers who require fewer specialists to keep them productive shouldn't help the economy
wat

I never said that we should ban smoking, and why should we just look at this from a purely economical point of view? The broken window fallacy that the anons brought up earlier wasn't being used to prove that it will lead to a better economy, they were just replying to that specific post that was made afterwards.

Are you really grouping smoking and eating ice-cream/watching movies as if they were equally as bad? What's the last time you ate ice cream? Do you do it everyday? Are you dependent on it to feel good? There's no reason to assume that eating ice cream or watching movies would lead to problems as bad as smoking does, they are a kind of pleasure that can be enjoyed from time to time and that don't bring high health risks together with them.

My position is not that we should ban smoking, you can smoke all you want. I just think that it is a silly thing to do, the "benefits" don't compensate for the bad things you're getting with it.

There's no such thing as degeneracy. It all comes down to "Things i do not like for various mental reasons i don't want to come to terms with".

> There's no such thing as degeneracy
Nice meme here but it definitely exist. Drug abuse is one example. If you use shit like crocodile your tissues would degenerate in literal sense, without even counting whatever mental impact it can have. From that logic I just count everything that makes people to die faster or live with illness as objective degeneracy. Doesn't matter if I like it or not, we all can see how different factors could impact a world population as whole. I am talking about real threat to health and life here, not about shitty /pol/ meme.

fair enough. It's just that the word "degeneracy" is used in such large scale and in such a retarded manner these days that I see red every time I hear/see it

not the same user though

This is the fault of the government, not the smoker, you fucking idiot.

t. Non smoker.

That's not how trends, traditions and culture in humanity work.